Same Sex Marriage (15 Viewers)

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Still doesn't work. I mean what do we want to do, build a society of gays? I don't think so.

Nobody wants a society of gays, people just want a society that will allow them to be what they are and give them the same rights as everyone else. People wont become gay just because gay marriages are allowed.

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++

That's my point Zlatan. I am rather certain that without Religion there would be no feasible laws in our land.

I am not. IMO the laws are a result of society's development rather than of religion. Just look at, say, Europe in the 10-15 century period for example, religion was more infulential than now but IMO less people actually obeyed the laws than they do now, and even the church did horrible things.

 

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[Chxta]

I find it funny that people talk about the Law, and try to diss religion. Any student of history can tell you that ALL modern laws in Western societies are (loosely) based on the Cannon Law.

So WTF are we talking about?

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++

You hold a code of conduct because that's what law requires you to do. I'm not saying people who do not believe in God are bad people, however without religion this world would be much more fecked up. Without religion there would be no laws respecting human life.

But then how about the detail that the majority of wars (and attrocities) throughout history are started in the name of one religion or another.


I would say theres a good case to say that without religion the world would be a better place

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


But then how about the detail that the majority of wars (and attrocities) throughout history are started in the name of one religion or another.

that is exactly my biggest argument

 

[CuTe-17]

I just read this thread,, that was the 1st time i ever read the whole thread from point 0... very intersting points of View,

same sex marriages: No-No, cuz it's not normal, and cuz am a muslim and i dont belive in such thing
Abortion: if the baby was less than 3 months old, it might affect the mother in any bad way, or affect the lives of both parents,then it's ok,, as long as both parents agree on it.
what else:...!!!
be back later..!!

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


But then how about the detail that the majority of wars (and attrocities) throughout history are started in the name of one religion or another.


I would say theres a good case to say that without religion the world would be a better place

And I would tend to agree.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


But then how about the detail that the majority of wars (and attrocities) throughout history are started in the name of one religion or another.


I would say theres a good case to say that without religion the world would be a better place

All that is a matter of conjecture...

Moses (apologies) aside, can you name any other founder of any of the top 5 religions in the world that encouraged his followers to kill others because of their religious differences?

Moses wasn't even about religious differences. It was about survival for his people, because he clearly stated Thou shalt not kill.

All the religions have indeed at one time or the other been hijacked by politicians who turned them bad(?) at the respective material points in time. But that doesn't mean that religion is bad.

Like I said earlier, all Laws in use today the world over have their roots in religious teaching.

You say the world would have done better without religion? Take the example of the Soviet Union and tell me how.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


All that is a matter of conjecture...

Moses (apologies) aside, can you name any other founder of any of the top 5 religions in the world that encouraged his followers to kill others because of their religious differences?

Moses wasn't even about religious differences. It was about survival for his people, because he clearly stated Thou shalt not kill.

All the religions have indeed at one time or the other been hijacked by politicians who turned them bad(?) at the respective material points in time. But that doesn't mean that religion is bad.

Like I said earlier, all Laws in use today the world over have their roots in religious teaching.

You say the world would have done better without religion? Take the example of the Soviet Union and tell me how.

The fact that laws have roots in religion doesnt mean they wouldnt exist if there was no religion.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



The fact that laws have roots in religion doesnt mean they wouldnt exist if there was no religion.

Like I always tell people, the past is the past. Anything that didn't happen is just a matter of conjecture.

But then, on this issue, we had a 72 year experiment if a godless state, and look how they've turned out.

True or false Zla, Russia is the most bankrupt country on the face of the earth from a moral viewpoint, no?

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


All that is a matter of conjecture...

Moses (apologies) aside, can you name any other founder of any of the top 5 religions in the world that encouraged his followers to kill others because of their religious differences?

Your missing the point... It doesnt matter whether the founders of religions encouraged killing... The fact is that the majority of wars and atrocities in history have been carried out in the name of religion....

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


Like I always tell people, the past is the past. Anything that didn't happen is just a matter of conjecture.

But then, on this issue, we had a 72 year experiment if a godless state, and look how they've turned out.

True or false Zla, Russia is the most bankrupt country on the face of the earth from a moral viewpoint, no?

TBH, I fail to see your point.


And also, I'm not sure I can agree with you, nor am I sure you are the right person to talk about morals.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++

All the religions have indeed at one time or the other been hijacked by politicians who turned them bad(?) at the respective material points in time. But that doesn't mean that religion is bad.

I didn't miss any point.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



TBH, I fail to see your point.

The point is if there's no religion, the world would be like Russia is... decadent.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Your missing the point... It doesnt matter whether the founders of religions encouraged killing... The fact is that the majority of wars and atrocities in history have been carried out in the name of religion....

TBH, Paul is quite correct. It's very similar to saying that guns are not guilty for people's deaths, but the people tha use them. While that might be true, fact is that there would be much less murder if there were no guns.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


The point is if there's no religion, the world would be like Russia is... decadent.

And who says there is no religion in Russia.

And even if there is no religion, I hardly think thats the reason Russia is in the state it is, there are many more countries that are very much based on religion yet are in a worse state.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++


And who says there is no religion in Russia.

And even if there is no religion, I hardly think thats the reason Russia is in the state it is, there are many more countries that are very much based on religion yet are in a worse state.

I didn't say economically. I said morally. Name such countries if you think I am wrong.

The Soviet government Zla, not the Russian. What is today Russia had 72 years of deliberate oppression of religion. 72 years is 3 generations.

 

[Zlatan]

First explain how exactly you figure that? Why exactly is Russia morally bankrupt?


Also, try to explain to me what exactly you think morals are? This is quite important for future discussions.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



TBH, Paul is quite correct. It's very similar to sayng that guns are not quilty for people's deaths, but the people tha use them. While that might be tru, fact is that there would be much less murder if there were no guns.

Guns weren't commercially available until the 16th century, yet there was still a lot of murder. What's your point?

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
First explain how exactly you figure that? Why exactly is Russia morally bankrupt?


Also, try to explain to me what exactly you think morals are? This is quite important for future discussions.

Sprechen sie Englisch? My statements are quite clear. I didn't speak a foreign tongue.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


Guns weren't commercially available until the 16th century, yet there was still a lot of murder. What's your point?

Thats not the point, guns are just an example.