Same Sex Marriage (2 Viewers)

Hydde · Sep 5, 2006

OK first of all, im catholic, not a devoted one but im. I dont go most of the time to church, in fact i go almost never. I dont read the bible, i just know some of it because of what i learned in school and in the church. Maybe i dont follow the god´s rules step by step but, im the kind of person that thinks, that if you know what u are doing, you dont need the church as a excuse to purify your sins. I always try to live my life to the fullest, but doing what i think is good,, and trying to fix my wrongdoings. Trying to do no harm to anyone and trying to be as good as i can be. Im full of sins like everyone in this forum, but im aware that i do most good to the world than bad.

Im not too fond of the church because it is ruled by humans. I agree that bible and church are a good influence by guiding people to give love and receive love but i just cant agree completely about the "believe in this or that without question because the bible said so". The Bible is a book written by humans after all.
I take from the bible what i think is usefull for me, and it is to live your life as a righteous human being (as righteous as you can be). To really believe in the rest, i need to see real proof, and when talking a real proof, is to see with my own eyes something that will make me believe that a God is really up there watching us. And until that day arrive, ill continue doing what i think i need to do, to be a good person, and what i think will help me when my dead and judgement time comes, well , if ill be judged at all.

Humans are not perfect, in fact we are the most twisted being on earth. How can we believe blindly in something that is controlled by humans?. Someone can come up and say that the church is guided by the "divinity and will of god" but i just cant agree completely with that, because there is no solid proof of it. In the end, the one that is in front of you giving the speech on sunday is as human as you and me.

This was just to express my point of view of one of the debates of this thread.

So, if Church is ruled by humans, and the bases of the church are build from a book written by humans (yes a book written by divine inspiration ,but that needs to be really proved), then how the church can say what is good or wrong?. This take me to the actual topic of this thread: The gay behaviour.

Im a straight guy, i dont support gay or lesbian behaviours because of the simple fact that is not pleasant to my eye. That is, a very personal point of view.

One of my best pals have a gay brother and that is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to that family. This has changed his life and the enviroment of the whole family. My pal has lived with that pain his whole life, and that is a "taboo" topic between us.

My dad, being a great friend of my pal´s dad (since high school) always tell me that he dont understand what hapened there. He (my pal's dad) had 3 sons, and the middle one is the gay one. The other 2 (including my pal) are straight and the father of that family is a straight guy too, and a great person. So, how this happened?.

Someone stated the reason some pages ago, and altho is not definitely the truth, it is the reason i believe. IMO, this kind of behaviours are the result of some genetical errors when born. Something just went the wrong way. I think is what happens with most of the gays and lesbians. The gay guy im talking about was surrounded by straights, and he didnt had any gay influence in his first 14 years... but my dad tells me that he was acting gay since 3 or 4 years old (he is like 26 now). So how this can be the result of an irresponsible behaviour? He never said "hey i wanna be gay from now on", he was gay since born, it wasnt his fault.

So, if things are this way... how can you tell someone to act against his/her own nature?. The Church says that this kind of behaviour goes against god´s will and teachings, but in most of the cases... this kind of people didnt choose that way, they were born that way. So, who is wrong here?.

Im not trying to defend gay/lesbians, but i can just try to understand them a little. Im not saying that church is wrong either, because they(gay/lesb) are acting against our "normal way of life". I dont support that kind of behaviour(because is not my nature) but im no one to say that it is right or wrong. And i think that no one have the power to say it either.

d.nico · Sep 5, 2006

- vOnAm - said:

I live near Trisakti, so you know how the girls are

Btw i have one and i satisfied with her :toast:

d.nico · Sep 5, 2006

Good reading Hydde. And also very good point of view.

ßöмßäяðîëя · Sep 5, 2006

Blah blah blah.....

Anyone who disagrees with this is a fucking idot son of a bitch and should have their cock or labia stripped off with a power sander and be strung up under a tree with a clown mask on.

And you can quote me on that......

- vOnAm - · Sep 5, 2006

d.nico said:

getttin' married anytime soon?

u should pass sum around bro, thin on stocks here...been long while since I went to that area..
spent 4 years of college at BSD (when it was dry too, away from civilization and girls) and now Cikarang, can it get any worse?

- vOnAm - · Sep 5, 2006

Hydde said:

Im tootally 180 degrees with ya, so I guess this makes me ( in Burke's words)
"A fucking idot son of a bitch and should have My cock stripped off with a power sander and be strung up under a tree with a clown mask on" :cry:

First of all, I am a firm believer in god, whether I obey 100% of what my religion tells me to do is a different matter, but I do believe god exists and I do believe that there is a guideline more or less on how we should conduct our lives. But again this is my personal belief.

I can't prove God exist as much as you can't prove God doesn't exist.

But aside from religious point of view which would be against Homosexuality, I think that Naturally we aren't suppose to be gay, I mean if you consider our reproduction system. I don't think the Anus was created for sexual purposes nor was the Pen!s created to fit in there.

Many people are born with disorders and abnormalities and can be cured so that doesn't imply that their state at birth is their normal natural state. Which I bring up simply to say that if one is born a certain way it doesn't neccessrily validate them as the natural state. I don't mean to say that Gay is a disorder, although I have heard many people referring to the behavioors as such.
Coming back to the paragraph above. If it was natural to be gay, then why didn't 'nature' further placed the appropriate tools.

I definately disagree with Gay Marriage. I have no grudges against Gay people nor am I disgusted by them, I just personally don't feel its normal. I have only 1-2 gay friends and they are very nice guys, but I just don't agree with their way of life.

d.nico · Sep 6, 2006

- vOnAm - said:

Don't worry bro.. I have 4 in my house :eyebrows:

Elvin · Sep 6, 2006

Literally...

Mr. Gol · Sep 6, 2006

In that case, meet Poncharello:

Hydde · Sep 6, 2006

Well i think we are very clear in what we think about this. I know i cant prove that it doesnt exists, and im not searching ways to. I just want to see something to make me feel that im not believing in something imaginary created by humans.
But catholicism is a good thing. It teach us how to live our lifes in the right manner.

I dont agree with this because if you say that we werent supposed to have 2 sexes or something, i can easily say that we werent supposed to be born deaf, or blind, or with diseases, and this kind of things just happens naturally,,,, it isnt supossed to happen but it happens.

I clearly think that homosexuality is a disorder. It wasnt supposed to be that way, but the fact that this happens,,, (and homosexuality is as old as Catholic religion let me remind you) and the fact that there is A LOT of people this way, makes believe that is not just as simple as the church thinks. IM very sure that the answer to this behaviour can be found by science.

I dont agree with gay marriage either. I mean, if this kind of people want to live together, and adopt childs well, let them be,, they will have to figure out how they will solve the lots of problems they will find with having a family. But to ask for a religous marriage, is a bit too much, The church has their laws clear since long time ago and one of the main topics of their believes is the relation between Man and Woman, not anything else.

- vOnAm - · Sep 7, 2006

Hydde said:

I understand, I know what u meant by your post, I just wanted to give another way of thinking about it. There are some who think its stupid and ridiculious to believe in god. But I think even from a neutral stand point there is really a 50-50 chance of either god existing or not, its a matter of choice, which one you prefer to believe.
(In Bold) I personally think its good of you or anybody to think this way, to try to make sure that your faith isn't just being used as a political tool or any other human driven purposes. For me its much better than just following the herd without question.
I can write the reason why I don't hesitate in believing in God and my religion and why I don't think my religion is man made, but it would be a long way off from this thread

I think basically all religion is good, guides us to do good with our lives.

Hydde said:

Hmm, you wrote that you don't agree with me but from the things you describe here, i think I'm gonna have to disagree that you disagree with me

In other words I think we pretty much have the same opinion on the subject, perhaps I didn't choose the correct words to describe what I meant, but I can pretty much say I agree with what you're writting here.

- vOnAm - · Sep 7, 2006

d.nico said:

you dawg!

int:

Mr. Gol · Sep 7, 2006

Hydde said:

But as far as I know there are two types of marriage, the 'religious' one and the 'legal' one. Gay marriage probably isn't possible with the first, because everyone probably agrees that the church' traditions should be kept. But there is absolutely no reason for not allowing 'legal' marriage between homosexuals. In fact, most nations article 1 of the consitution is about equalty. Surely gays are equals to other people? Bush is having trouble with that logic btw, thats why he wants to change the constitution on this point.

Zlatan · Sep 7, 2006

He's an idiot tho.

flieeeekke · Sep 7, 2006

hello zlatan.

who's an idiot?

flieeeekke · Sep 7, 2006

oh, bush.

ok, nevermind

JCK · Sep 7, 2006

If you hadn't figured that out by yourself, you wouldn't have got an answer from Zlatan.

swag · Sep 7, 2006

Mr. Gol said:

You could argue that there's a third form -- independent of religious or state recognition. Often called common-law marriage, until states started recognizing that too.

Seven · Sep 7, 2006

Mr. Gol said:

But as far as I know there are two types of marriage, the 'religious' one and the 'legal' one. Gay marriage probably isn't possible with the first, because everyone probably agrees that the church' traditions should be kept. But there is absolutely no reason for not allowing 'legal' marriage between homosexuals. In fact, most nations article 1 of the consitution is about equalty. Surely gays are equals to other people? Bush is having trouble with that logic btw, thats why he wants to change the constitution on this point.

People aren't equal. They never were and they never will be.

No matter what the constitution might say.

swag · Sep 7, 2006

Seven said:

Nah. They're all equal. Just some are more equal than others.

Same Sex Marriage (2 Viewers)

Minimiliano Tristelli

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a twat

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Biased

L'autista

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.

L'autista

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