Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (68 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
- Start date
I never backed Musk's solutions just said wars end through negotation so unless you think Ukraine is going to march all the way and take the Kremlin then you have to plan for when would be the most advantageous time for yourself to do the negotiationg
With the recent successes Ukraine has had isn't now the time to do it? The time when you will get the most concessions out of Putin? Some factors to consider imo are that Putin, right now, is on the cusp of going in balls deep and probably wants an off ramp. He is ordering that mobilization of 300,000 largely untrained, unfit men to go straight into the meat grinder. Loads will die and it could prove catastrophic to his domestic popularity ala how the Afghanistan conflict was costly for the Soviet Union in the face of its public.
There are also the growing rumors of them nuking the frontline. If they nuke any part of Ukraine they will become even more of an international pariah then they are. Surely even the last few major nations that tolerate them (india, china) would turn them backs on Russia if nukes were involved. Do you really think Putin actually wants to proceed forward with the mobilization and the nukes?
That he wouldn't gladly take an off ramp and give major concessions to ukraine to do so?
Sure Ukraine would probably have to give up Crimea but this could also be an opportunity to end this conflict before the death toll rises from 5 figures to 6 or even 7.
If the war continues on from this point there is the very real possibility that the costs could get exponentially worse and I don't think Saagar Enjeti is wrong for pointing that out
Another thing to consider is how dependent the Ukraine effort is upon the American taxpayer and so one must consider the state of America now and in the near future. Not NATO as a whole, but the United States.
Midterm elections are a month away with a very real chance that right wing populists will soon have much more power in the country and the country is potentially on the brink of a major recession. How much longer will Ukraine be receiving 10s of billions of dollars in aid from the US taxpayer?
With the recent successes Ukraine has had isn't now the time to do it? The time when you will get the most concessions out of Putin? Some factors to consider imo are that Putin, right now, is on the cusp of going in balls deep and probably wants an off ramp. He is ordering that mobilization of 300,000 largely untrained, unfit men to go straight into the meat grinder. Loads will die and it could prove catastrophic to his domestic popularity ala how the Afghanistan conflict was costly for the Soviet Union in the face of its public.
There are also the growing rumors of them nuking the frontline. If they nuke any part of Ukraine they will become even more of an international pariah then they are. Surely even the last few major nations that tolerate them (india, china) would turn them backs on Russia if nukes were involved. Do you really think Putin actually wants to proceed forward with the mobilization and the nukes?
That he wouldn't gladly take an off ramp and give major concessions to ukraine to do so?
Sure Ukraine would probably have to give up Crimea but this could also be an opportunity to end this conflict before the death toll rises from 5 figures to 6 or even 7.
If the war continues on from this point there is the very real possibility that the costs could get exponentially worse and I don't think Saagar Enjeti is wrong for pointing that out
Another thing to consider is how dependent the Ukraine effort is upon the American taxpayer and so one must consider the state of America now and in the near future. Not NATO as a whole, but the United States.
Midterm elections are a month away with a very real chance that right wing populists will soon have much more power in the country and the country is potentially on the brink of a major recession. How much longer will Ukraine be receiving 10s of billions of dollars in aid from the US taxpayer?
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the question is WHY? Why in the hell should Ukraine consider giving up even an inch of their internationally (including Russia itself) recognized territory? It would mean just postponing the future conflict, freezing it, not ending.
The answer is they should not. The war ends with Ukrainian Crimea.
Russians can go fuck themselves. If those hundreds of thousands fleeing the war to other countries went into the Red Square instead, Putinism would already be over. Cowardly fucks!
The answer is they should not. The war ends with Ukrainian Crimea.
Russians can go fuck themselves. If those hundreds of thousands fleeing the war to other countries went into the Red Square instead, Putinism would already be over. Cowardly fucks!
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Even Zelenskys response is strategic. I am sure there are back channels as we speak working on getting this sorted out diplomatically.
@Kopanja would ukraine accept ceding crimea if allowed to join NATO/EU?
@Kopanja would ukraine accept ceding crimea if allowed to join NATO/EU?
