For someone trying to make a point you are quite foulmouthed. Is that vein on your neck bulging?
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Rooney??? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter StormRuller
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I'm not gonna bother responding to all the EPL vs Serie A talk, but I'm just gonna add that having 3 Italian teams in the semifinals only 2 seasons ago hardly makes the days of Italian football's prominence (though I wouldn't exactly call it dominance) 'days gone by'
as for over-ratedness, it really depends what we're talking about. If we're saying that the likes of Beckham are over-rated by learned football fans, then I wouldn't agree, because most people who watch football on a regular basis understand his shortcomings... when it comes to fairweather footy 'fans', of course he's over-rated. That said, I think it's fair to say that English teams and players are over-rated; I mean ask most people on the street and they won't know who the hell Zambrotta is, when he's the best left-back in the world. Not that many people know Del Piero either. Gattuso who? What's Pirlo? Is that like, the precious thing that comes out of oysters?
over-ratedness is relative
as for over-ratedness, it really depends what we're talking about. If we're saying that the likes of Beckham are over-rated by learned football fans, then I wouldn't agree, because most people who watch football on a regular basis understand his shortcomings... when it comes to fairweather footy 'fans', of course he's over-rated. That said, I think it's fair to say that English teams and players are over-rated; I mean ask most people on the street and they won't know who the hell Zambrotta is, when he's the best left-back in the world. Not that many people know Del Piero either. Gattuso who? What's Pirlo? Is that like, the precious thing that comes out of oysters?
over-ratedness is relative
Well Gray, 2003 was a fantastic year for Italian football, but that came after 3 very scarce seasons. I am afraid that the days when Italian clubs would put a team in the final for 7 seasons in a row are over. But hey, competition is good.
You make a good point regarding fans' bias. I'd say that a team that is proclaimed World/Euro champ after beating Denmark or Croatia is overrated.
You make a good point regarding fans' bias. I'd say that a team that is proclaimed World/Euro champ after beating Denmark or Croatia is overrated.
Heck, I totally agree with Gray.
Rating depends on the minds of individual people, and hence it is a relative thing. This is precisely because people give different weights to certain criteria in judging players ability. I, for one, look for creativeness, technical control, and vision in attacking midfielder, and judge striker based on off the ball movement and their goal records. That is why Beckam isnt too high on my books since he isnt naturally gifted in these apsects and rate Trezeguet higher than most people do in this board (Since Trez does score goals
). For the same reason, I think Inzaghi is overrated because only once in his career he scored more than 20goals, and while people talk about him as a goal getter, satistically he is more of a 13-17 guy.
Rooney is a bit more difficult case because a lot of things that should be consideration are his "potential". A concept IMO that can be very misleading and ambiguous. As Seven correctly said, Rooney is amazing teenager, and some of the things he can do at this age is simply unbelievable. Then again, how can we tell that Rooney is merely an early developer and reached his peak at early age? 10 years ago if anyone told me that Zizou, Figo, Rivaldo would have better career than Raul and Del Piero, I would have questioned their sanity..
The same thing applies to English and Italian league. I still believe that Italian league is more suited than EPL in terms of getting results, but then again EPL is fast & Furious with goals flying in which made the league commercially viable and every entertaining. Serie A is more a "hard core" league IMO.. Hence, different people will have different tastes, which in terms determines their preference. Nonetheless, one thing that is certain IMO is that the days of Serie A dominance is over, and Europe has become extremely competitive, which made it more enjoyable IMO. Furthermore, the financial strenght of EPL puts it in very good position to increase its competitiveness in comparison to rival league of La Liga and Serie A. However, unfortunately I also think the days of outspending is over (It worked in Milan-Berlusconi era) because the talent margin is thinning, and just as the competition has become more competitive, the quality of players is levelling off IMO. The trends in global-ness, and better training methods in other parts of the world will only re-inforce these trends. Hence, unfortunately for EPL, its financial strenght does not guarantee the Serie A esque dominance of 90s. The competition is now too big to be owned by one league, be it Serie A, La Liga and EPL.
Rating depends on the minds of individual people, and hence it is a relative thing. This is precisely because people give different weights to certain criteria in judging players ability. I, for one, look for creativeness, technical control, and vision in attacking midfielder, and judge striker based on off the ball movement and their goal records. That is why Beckam isnt too high on my books since he isnt naturally gifted in these apsects and rate Trezeguet higher than most people do in this board (Since Trez does score goals
). For the same reason, I think Inzaghi is overrated because only once in his career he scored more than 20goals, and while people talk about him as a goal getter, satistically he is more of a 13-17 guy.Rooney is a bit more difficult case because a lot of things that should be consideration are his "potential". A concept IMO that can be very misleading and ambiguous. As Seven correctly said, Rooney is amazing teenager, and some of the things he can do at this age is simply unbelievable. Then again, how can we tell that Rooney is merely an early developer and reached his peak at early age? 10 years ago if anyone told me that Zizou, Figo, Rivaldo would have better career than Raul and Del Piero, I would have questioned their sanity.
.The same thing applies to English and Italian league. I still believe that Italian league is more suited than EPL in terms of getting results, but then again EPL is fast & Furious with goals flying in which made the league commercially viable and every entertaining. Serie A is more a "hard core" league IMO.
. Hence, different people will have different tastes, which in terms determines their preference. Nonetheless, one thing that is certain IMO is that the days of Serie A dominance is over, and Europe has become extremely competitive, which made it more enjoyable IMO. Furthermore, the financial strenght of EPL puts it in very good position to increase its competitiveness in comparison to rival league of La Liga and Serie A. However, unfortunately I also think the days of outspending is over (It worked in Milan-Berlusconi era) because the talent margin is thinning, and just as the competition has become more competitive, the quality of players is levelling off IMO. The trends in global-ness, and better training methods in other parts of the world will only re-inforce these trends. Hence, unfortunately for EPL, its financial strenght does not guarantee the Serie A esque dominance of 90s. The competition is now too big to be owned by one league, be it Serie A, La Liga and EPL.
Im not sure why you would be. Not counting this thread though, you have started to accept the more ive ranting about it. But in the past particulary in on rooney, owen and gerrard you have dismissed their quality. When ive also seen you rate italian players that are nothing compared to them. I guess its preference and theres nothing wrong with that, but still you have been very hypocritical in the past.
The Arsenals chance thing is alittle silly. Come on. History wouldnt stop them winning it this season or next. And Arsenal havent needed to sign anyone, they get stronger and stronger. But I havent even been talking about winning it. I wouldnt bet on Arsenal to win it. I was more talking about Juve drawing an English team. And if Arsenal or Chelsea got Juve I dont think anyone here could say they wouldnt be extremely worried about that.
Thats the only point i was making, so why are we evening discussing it?
Didnt that come after the Italians worst even european run? And that year werent Juve quite lucky to even qualify from the group and werent that very fortunate to havent beaten barca and werent Inter quite lucky to get to the last 4 also?
Thats not really what im talking about. Im talking about the old days when an Italian team would always make the final and the Italian teams had the upper hand. They simply dont have that anymore, and some people think they still do. thats all.
The Arsenals chance thing is alittle silly. Come on. History wouldnt stop them winning it this season or next. And Arsenal havent needed to sign anyone, they get stronger and stronger. But I havent even been talking about winning it. I wouldnt bet on Arsenal to win it. I was more talking about Juve drawing an English team. And if Arsenal or Chelsea got Juve I dont think anyone here could say they wouldnt be extremely worried about that.
Maybe I haven't said this clearly or something, but I do agree with you that English sides have improved lately. Most of it is because of what Chelsea has done in the past year, building a truely competitive side that has the best chance out of all English teams to do something in Europe. But like I said before, if history deams importance to the future, it will be 18, not 17 years.
Didnt that come after the Italians worst even european run? And that year werent Juve quite lucky to even qualify from the group and werent that very fortunate to havent beaten barca and werent Inter quite lucky to get to the last 4 also?
Thats not really what im talking about. Im talking about the old days when an Italian team would always make the final and the Italian teams had the upper hand. They simply dont have that anymore, and some people think they still do. thats all.
Rooney is an exception though, as I have said before its just too early to tell with him. You know I abhor his demeanor, maybe thats something to take into account, but I haven't said that he isn't one of the most promissing players in world football. That would be absurd. You know my arguments on Owen and Gerrard, so we don't have to go into that.
I am worried when Juventus face any difficult team in the Champions League, even Lyon would have worried me as a matter a fact. Its only natural. But its not like we're facing Milan when it comes to Arsenal or Chelsea.
Hell if I know
In a way River its not all about luck. If I would think highly of luck, I'd say that Man United shouldn't have won that 99 Final because they were lucky. That would mean no wins in over 17 years. :cheesy: So I guess its not a good topic of discusion.
I am worried when Juventus face any difficult team in the Champions League, even Lyon would have worried me as a matter a fact. Its only natural. But its not like we're facing Milan when it comes to Arsenal or Chelsea.
Thats the only point i was making, so why are we evening discussing it?
In a way River its not all about luck. If I would think highly of luck, I'd say that Man United shouldn't have won that 99 Final because they were lucky. That would mean no wins in over 17 years. :cheesy: So I guess its not a good topic of discusion.
I've replied to this pile of hippo spunk (talking about the post, not the poster of course) in this thread before, but I couldn't resist
Inzaghi my arse
This is his first competitive match since he got injured 3+ months ago and his first ever CL match. He knows all of England and much of the rest of the world are watching his debut, he knows all the press and spotlights would be on him, and he's totally unfazed and delivers a performance that is the wet dream of every sensationalistic tabloid journo and more (and I'm not talking about his habit of 'spending time' with grannies ). The boy's a star in the making. "Give him the stage and Wayne Rooney will perform". How true.
Inzaghi my arse
This is his first competitive match since he got injured 3+ months ago and his first ever CL match. He knows all of England and much of the rest of the world are watching his debut, he knows all the press and spotlights would be on him, and he's totally unfazed and delivers a performance that is the wet dream of every sensationalistic tabloid journo and more (and I'm not talking about his habit of 'spending time' with grannies
). The boy's a star in the making. "Give him the stage and Wayne Rooney will perform". How true.
++ [ originally posted by Kevin ] ++
Inzaghi my arse
This is his first competitive match since he got injured 3+ months ago and his first ever CL match. He knows all of England and much of the rest of the world are watching his debut, he knows all the press and spotlights would be on him, and he's totally unfazed and delivers what is the wet dream of every sensationalistic tabloid journo and more (and I'm not talking about his habit of 'spending time' with grannies ). The boy's a star in the making. "Give him the stage and Wayne Rooney will perform". How true.
Inzaghi my arse
This is his first competitive match since he got injured 3+ months ago and his first ever CL match. He knows all of England and much of the rest of the world are watching his debut, he knows all the press and spotlights would be on him, and he's totally unfazed and delivers what is the wet dream of every sensationalistic tabloid journo and more (and I'm not talking about his habit of 'spending time' with grannies
). The boy's a star in the making. "Give him the stage and Wayne Rooney will perform". How true.
Some quotes from Cruyff on Nederland 2 today: "Rooney reminds me of a young Ronaldo.", "He has great awareness" and "He's got a certain presence, a certain aura about him." He sat through the whole evening disappointed with Ajax's rubbish performance and boring highlights until the United-Fenerbahce game came up. He sat up immediately, eyes twinkling and a big smile on his previously moody face, the expression of just the average football fan who's excited about a player/performance/match/etc. Couldn't stop talking about Rooney...
Oops! Looks like another know-nothing sucker has been fooled by all the Rooney hype. 
Oops! Looks like another know-nothing sucker has been fooled by all the Rooney hype.
