Rock, in all shapes and sizes (10 Viewers)

[CrimsonianKing]

But the problem, I think, that artists are facing today is that they are not given the proper time to be able to hone their craft. Today, if you are not making money right away, then some of the more talented people that might be out there, will never be heard from again.

Thats actually the way it's always been in the music business, bro. At least in the pop scene. Some bands back in the sixties used to release 2 or even 3 full lenght records a yea, something unthinkable today. They were forced to and still the music was brilliant.

Fuck i still can't believe this shit. Got tears in my eyes everytime i think about it.

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But the problem, I think, that artists are facing today is that they are not given the proper time to be able to hone their craft. Today, if you are not making money right away, then some of the more talented people that might be out there, will never be heard from again.

Thats actually the way it's always been in the music business, bro. At least in the pop scene. Some bands back in the sixties used to release 2 or even 3 full lenght records a yea, something unthinkable today. They were forced to and still the music was brilliant.

Fuck i still can't believe this shit. Got tears in my eyes everytime i think about it.

 

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[swag]

Kids need to get up from their fucking chairs and make great music again. Having to listen to this pop shit fucking sucks.

But I doubt it's gonna happen. Artistically speaking this generation is mediocre.

Anything popular is insanely formulaic today. Isn't there something like only 7 producers who have made all the #1 hits of the past several years?

What we have is akin to cinema where cash money is best by banking on a franchise of repeats and remakes and slight variations on a popular theme. Most people aren't either crazy enough or daring with money enough to invest into something risky and unknown.

There's never gonna be very little uncharted territory left in music. Music is infinite. Especially with what you can do with a computer, production-wise. Truth is there's very little creativity left.

You kind of conflict yourself here. There has been music since we were wearing animal skins. It's evolved. So has the business of it. So I am in no concern that it's going away anytime soon.

There's creativity among a lot more of the fringes. The stuff where a laptop and an instrument is all you need. But it's almost guaranteed that none of that will see the light of day in popular culture, since popular culture is dominated by the formulaic as I mentioned above.

In fact, in myself I've found myself more attracted to music of indie bands and artists in places like South America and Africa these days to hear "new" things.

But the problem, I think, that artists are facing today is that they are not given the proper time to be able to hone their craft. Today, if you are not making money right away, then some of the more talented people that might be out there, will never be heard from again.

The economics are completely different though. It's about live performances... the things that don't scale are time. Everything else distributes almost for free with the click of a mouse and thus has almost no value as compared with before.

Thus a lot of released music is becoming like MTV videos in the 80s: promos for bands so you go pay them real money by seeing them at a live show. That unfortunately means artists that aren't making it on live tours are kind of hosed.

 

[Maddy]

What a Swansong. Lazarus gives me the creeps. Wish I could get my old username back.

One of the greatest and to me the greatest ever.

 

[KB824]

What a Swansong. Lazarus gives me the creeps. Wish I could get my old username back.

One of the greatest and to me the greatest ever.

"I can't give everything away" has a much different meaning to me now than it did before

 

[CrimsonianKing]

First thing I've done when I got home was to play my Stage vinyl as loud as possible. My wife thinks I'm nuts Belew, Powell, House... The caliber of the musicians on that tour is ridiculous.

I don't think I have been this emotionally affected since Kurt Cobain's death.

 

[Post Ironic]

There's never gonna be very little uncharted territory left in music. Music is infinite. Especially with what you can do with a computer, production-wise. Truth is there's very little creativity left.

This simply isn't true, and you know it. The problem is that their are millions and millions of bands and musicians... and what ends up getting recorded and marketed is for the most part disastrous. It's mainstream music that has taken a swan dive, not music in general. And to be honest it's been trending in that direction for years, with few exceptions. But music being made at the fringes is filled with creative and brilliant individuals.

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Anyways, RIP David Bowie. My favourite musician since childhood. You were a fucking musical hero. Such a sad day.


You fucking lived your dream in a way not many can say they have.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I wouldn't call it brilliant. Far from it, actually. And trust me, my old record collection have stuff from every unknown part of the world, so I thought it would only be fair to do the same when searching for new and modern bands. Couldn't find much, if anything interesting.

Mostly of what I still enjoy that are considered "modern" are actually bands that were formed in the 90's but are still in the scene whether it's mainstream or not. "It's mainstream music that has taken a swan dive, not music in general." I disagree 100% there, music in general simply isn't as dynamic, impressive, challenging and unique. There are no new ground breaking recording techniques, no revolutionary new instruments, etc... Instead we have the death of dynamics in music aka loud war and singers with a Whitney Houston Syndrome (w/ auto tune ofc) over cheap beats and plastic and recycled melodies.

But I guess it could be a matter of perspective. Per instance, for a Metal fan who's also into Progressive music there isn't a better time than now (the 00's). You have plenty of good bands coming from that scene; Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Tool, Meshuggah, Riverside and so on... But then if you're into Jazz like me, where are the new Mileses? Hancockeses? Coltraneses? Where are the artists that can completely reinvent an entire genre? Ask any Jazz man and you'll see the answer is there isn't any. I'm not even gonna go on about how Foo Fighters - which is a fun rock band if you don't want anything pretentious and only want to hear some decent riffs and catchy melodies - is treated like a modern day Led Zeppelin because it's all we have now.

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@Post Ironic this is an interesting take on what's modern Pop music has become:

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Rest in peace, Bowie

 

[ZoSo]

I wouldn't call it brilliant. Far from it, actually. And trust me, my old record collection have stuff from every unknown part of the world, so I thought it would only be fair to do the same when searching for new and modern bands. Couldn't find much, if anything interesting.

Mostly of what I still enjoy that are considered "modern" are actually bands that were formed in the 90's but are still in the scene whether it's mainstream or not. "It's mainstream music that has taken a swan dive, not music in general." I disagree 100% there, music in general simply isn't as dynamic, impressive, challenging and unique. There are no new ground breaking recording techniques, no revolutionary new instruments, etc... Instead we have the death of dynamics in music aka loud war and singers with a Whitney Houston Syndrome (w/ auto tune ofc) over cheap beats and plastic and recycled melodies.

But I guess it could be a matter of perspective. Per instance, for a Metal fan who's also into Progressive music there isn't a better time than now (the 00's). You have plenty of good bands coming from that scene; Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Tool, Meshuggah, Riverside and so on... But then if you're into Jazz like me, where are the new Mileses? Hancockeses? Coltraneses? Where are the artists that can completely reinvent an entire genre? Ask any Jazz man and you'll see the answer is there isn't any. I'm not even gonna go on about how Foo Fighters - which is a fun rock band if you don't want anything pretentious and only want to hear some decent riffs and catchy melodies - is treated like a modern day Led Zeppelin because it's all we have now.

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@Post Ironic this is an interesting take on what's modern Pop music has become:

Sounds more like QotSA or Radiohead (overrated)

 

[Post Ironic]

I wouldn't call it brilliant. Far from it, actually. And trust me, my old record collection have stuff from every unknown part of the world, so I thought it would only be fair to do the same when searching for new and modern bands. Couldn't find much, if anything interesting.

Mostly of what I still enjoy that are considered "modern" are actually bands that were formed in the 90's but are still in the scene whether it's mainstream or not. "It's mainstream music that has taken a swan dive, not music in general." I disagree 100% there, music in general simply isn't as dynamic, impressive, challenging and unique. There are no new ground breaking recording techniques, no revolutionary new instruments, etc... Instead we have the death of dynamics in music aka loud war and singers with a Whitney Houston Syndrome (w/ auto tune ofc) over cheap beats and plastic and recycled melodies.

But I guess it could be a matter of perspective. Per instance, for a Metal fan who's also into Progressive music there isn't a better time than now (the 00's). You have plenty of good bands coming from that scene; Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Tool, Meshuggah, Riverside and so on... But then if you're into Jazz like me, where are the new Mileses? Hancockeses? Coltraneses? Where are the artists that can completely reinvent an entire genre? Ask any Jazz man and you'll see the answer is there isn't any. I'm not even gonna go on about how Foo Fighters - which is a fun rock band if you don't want anything pretentious and only want to hear some decent riffs and catchy melodies - is treated like a modern day Led Zeppelin because it's all we have now.

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@<a href="http://www.juventuz.com/member.php?u=18090" target="_blank">Post Ironic</a> this is an interesting take on what's modern Pop music has become:

I suppose I just disagree. The main difference I see is that it's harder and far more time-consuming to discover new bands that are worthwhile, especially considering the direction mainstream music has gone in terms of rock, jazz, etc.

I mean, it's the same deal with people talking about the film industry falling off a cliff and how old films and filmmakers are so much better. It's simply not true. One just has to attend any of the major film festivals to realize their are hundreds of very good-to-brilliant films being made each year, some of which easily rival and even surpass the greatest films of every era.

Anyways, this guy, Matt Elliott is brilliant and one of the better musicians I've come across from any era.


Or Piano Magic, one of the lyrically best bands I've ever heard:


German pianist Hauschka is a genius. Kishi Bashi. Erykah Badu. Flying Lotus. Deerhunter... The Arcade Fire album Funeral was fucking amazing. They've been shit ever since, but that first album was fantastic. Sufjan Stevens is amazing. Early Broken Social Scene was fantastic. The White Stripes were great. Goldfrapp's album Tales of Us is brilliant. Dear Criminals album Acid Rain. Son Lux album Lanterns... And so on. I can name countless bands that I think are doing fantastic stuff today.

As far as jazz today goes: Ambrose Akinsmusire is an absolutely brilliant trumpeter. So is Janusz Carmello. Zara McFarlane is an amazing vocalist. Aki Takase and Alexander von Schlippenbach are a super talented pair. And so on. Just because these people aren't taking off like the giants of the past, has more to do with the stark decline in popularity of jazz, than a presumed lack of talent and creativity in their music.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Sounds more like QotSA or Radiohead (overrated)

I doubt QotSA is as popular as FF for the younger generation. FF became an arena kind of band.

Maybe one day you will give a proper real listen to Ok Computer and Kid A. And then maybe try to find out why are they universally praised so much. Why they sound like they do. The technicalities behind it. The influences found on those records and how they were used. The complexity of both the production and song writing. What they represented to the music scene when they were first released, and what they do now, how did they age. What it means for a band to truly evolve and many other questions that can be answered if you want them to.

Maybe then you'll understand there's nothing overrated about it.

 

[Post Ironic]

I doubt QotSA is as popular as FF for the younger generation. FF became an arena kind of band.

Maybe one day you will give a proper real listen to Ok Computer and Kid A. And then maybe try to find out why are they universally praised so much. Why they sound like they do. The technicalities behind it. The influences found on those records and they were used. The complexity of both the production and song writing. What they represented to the music scene when they were first released, and what they do now, how did they age. What it means for a band to truly evolve and many other questions that can be answered if you want them to.

Maybe then you'll understand there's nothing overrated about it.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I suppose I just disagree. The main difference I see is that it's harder and far more time-consuming to discover new bands that are worthwhile, especially considering the direction mainstream music has gone in terms of rock, jazz, etc.

I mean, it's the same deal with people talking about the film industry falling off a cliff and how old films and filmmakers are so much better. It's simply not true. One just has to attend any of the major film festivals to realize their are hundreds of very good-to-brilliant films being made each year, some of which easily rival and even surpass the greatest films of every era.

Anyways, this guy, Matt Elliott is brilliant and one of the better musicians I've come across from any era.


Or Piano Magic, one of the lyrically best bands I've ever heard:


German pianist Hauschka is a genius. Kishi Bashi. Erykah Badu. Flying Lotus. Deerhunter... The Arcade Fire album Funeral was fucking amazing. They've been shit ever since, but that first album was fantastic. Sufjan Stevens is amazing. Early Broken Social Scene was fantastic. The White Stripes were great. Goldfrapp's album Tales of Us is brilliant. Dear Criminals album Acid Rain. Son Lux album Lanterns... And so on. I can name countless bands that I think are doing fantastic stuff today.

As far as jazz today goes: Ambrose Akinsmusire is an absolutely brilliant trumpeter. So is Janusz Carmello. Zara McFarlane is an amazing vocalist. Aki Takase and Alexander von Schlippenbach are a super talented pair. And so on. Just because these people aren't taking off like the giants of the past, has more to do with the stark decline in popularity of jazz, than a presumed lack of talent and creativity in their music.

Why u so indie, bro

The only Elliott worth listening to is Elliott Smith On a more serious note, I like some of that stuff mentioned. Goldfrapp is an interesting band, Deerhunter has some good tunes, White stripes of course is a fantastic unique band, AF's Funeral was a good record, etc...

If it's the same Janusz Carmello he's been around for a while. Don't know the other ones. In fact there's this Japanese Jazz trio that can be pretty good at times. A friend recommended this some time ago, I went and bought the CD. Not bad, not bad. The fact they're creepy as fuck is a big plus as well

 

[ZoSo]

I doubt QotSA is as popular as FF for the younger generation. FF became an arena kind of band.

Maybe one day you will give a proper real listen to Ok Computer and Kid A. And then maybe try to find out why are they universally praised so much. Why they sound like they do. The technicalities behind it. The influences found on those records and how they were used. The complexity of both the production and song writing. What they represented to the music scene when they were first released, and what they do now, how did they age. What it means for a band to truly evolve and many other questions that can be answered if you want them to.

Maybe then you'll understand there's nothing overrated about it.

QotSA are far more critically acclaimed. Even if Zep weren't in their time.

Ok Computer is good, but still fairly overrated. Kid A is shockingly overrated, it's basically Tago Mago meets Kraftwerk. Rock band goes electronic is one of the worst clichés ever.

 

[Post Ironic]

Why u so indie, bro

The only Elliott worth listening to is Elliott Smith On a more serious note, I like some of that stuff mentioned. Goldfrapp is an interesting band, Deerhunter has some good tunes, White stripes of course is a fantastic unique band, AF's Funeral was a good record, etc...

If it's the same Janusz Carmello he's been around for a while. Don't know the other ones. In fact there's this Japanese Jazz trio that can be pretty good at times. A friend recommended this some time ago, I went and bought the CD. Not bad, not bad. The fact they're creepy as fuck is a big plus as well

Elliott Smith was amazing. Have his entire record collection. But you're seriously underrating Matt Elliott if you don't think he's worth listening to. The guy is fantastic. I mean, it's all a matter of taste, of course, but he really is a talented and fascinating musician. This boxset of his is superb. http://www.discogs.com/Matt-Elliott-Songs/release/2104289 Those 4 albums were amongst the best of the 2000s. Massively underrated and lesser known musician.

The record label that releases his stuff, Ici D'ailleurs has a ton of good musicians on their label. Matt Elliott, Manyfingers, Chapelier Fou, Yann Tiersen, Mendelson, Third Eye Foundation, Angelique Ionatos. Lots of very interesting stuff. http://www.icidailleurs.com/index.php?route=product/category

Anyways. I'm exaggerating a bit. I suppose I don't think you're wrong, there is certainly some turret in what you're saying, I just think you're exaggerating it too, and there's a bit more in the way of good and (maybe more importantly) interesting music being made today.

Mouse on the Keys is super cool. The guy at the local record store convinced me to buy Flowers of Romance last time I was there. Super happy I did.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

QotSA are far more critically acclaimed. Even if Zep weren't in their time.

Ok Computer is good, but still fairly overrated. Kid A is shockingly overrated, it's basically Tago Mago meets Kraftwerk. Rock band goes electronic is one of the worst clichés ever.

More acclaimed than LZ, what?

Absolutely not overrated, it's a watershed moment in the music of that time, and any time really. No it isn't basically that. But then I could say the same about LZ and their old blues plagiari... *cough... influences. You take something, add your own twist to it and make it something else, that's how Kid A came about. That's how all rock music came about tbh. In the end and in what matters, song writing, melodies,etc it sounded nothing like Can or Kraftwerk.

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Elliott Smith was amazing. Have his entire record collection. But you're seriously underrating Matt Elliott if you don't think he's worth listening to. The guy is fantastic. I mean, it's all a matter of taste, of course, but he really is a talented and fascinating musician. This boxset of his is superb. http://www.discogs.com/Matt-Elliott-Songs/release/2104289 Those 4 albums were amongst the best of the 2000s. Massively underrated and lesser known musician.

The record label that releases his stuff, Ici D'ailleurs has a ton of good musicians on their label. Matt Elliott, Manyfingers, Chapelier Fou, Yann Tiersen, Mendelson, Third Eye Foundation, Angelique Ionatos. Lots of very interesting stuff. http://www.icidailleurs.com/index.php?route=product/category

Anyways. I'm exaggerating a bit. I suppose I don't think you're wrong, there is certainly some turret in what you're saying, I just think you're exaggerating it too, and there's a bit more in the way of good and (maybe more importantly) interesting music being made today.

Mouse on the Keys is super cool. The guy at the local record store convinced me to buy Flowers of Romance last time I was there. Super happy I did.

Love Elliott Smith. he was an impressive composer and accomplished pianist/folk guitar player. Like Jeff Buckley, died too young with so much still to give us.

I'll give this Matt Elliott a shot. Never heard of any of those acts, maybe Third Eye Foundation but that's about it.

More importantly, nah. Good, sure. There might be good stuff hidden in the corners of the earth but most won't be relevant years from now. Unless... Nick Drakes' Pink Moon, you know.

 

[Post Ironic]

More acclaimed than LZ, what?

Absolutely not overrated, it's a watershed moment in the music of that time, and any time really. No it isn't basically that. But then I could say the same about LZ and their old blues plagiari... *cough... influences. You take something, add your own twist to it and make it something else, that's how Kid A came about. That's how all rock music came about tbh. In the end and in what matters, song writing, melodies,etc it sounded nothing like Can or Kraftwerk.

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Love Elliott Smith. he was an impressive composer and accomplished pianist/folk guitar player. Like Jeff Buckley, died too young with so much still to give us.

I'll give this Matt Elliott a shot. Never heard of any of those acts, maybe Third Eye Foundation but that's about it.

More importantly, nah. Good, sure. There might be good stuff hidden in the corners of the earth but most won't be relevant years from now. Unless... Nick Drakes' Pink Moon, you know.

Thanks bro!

You have a quite a bit more knowledge in the musical realm than I do, so I respect your opinion here and definitely take what your saying as having weight. As you know, I like quite a few new bands... However, I have noticed with a lot of newer stuff, I like it at first, but get bored of it very quickly and move on to something else, and that is a major difference between it and the great music of the 50s-90s... It was timeless, and for the most part never really gets boring, which speaks to your point about most new music lacking in being dynamic, challenging, impressive, unique. I've learned the hard way with several album purchases by bands I very quickly became bored as fuck with.

With regards Matt Elliott, see if you can find this documentary on Kodi... I saw it at a film festival in 2013. Super interesting guy imo. Looks like it is only $1 to rent on vimeo. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/whatafuck

 

[ZoSo]

More acclaimed than LZ, what?

Absolutely not overrated, it's a watershed moment in the music of that time, and any time really. No it isn't basically that. But then I could say the same about LZ and their old blues plagiari... *cough... influences. You take something, add your own twist to it and make it something else, that's how Kid A came about. That's how all rock music came about tbh. In the end and in what matters, song writing, melodies,etc it sounded nothing like Can or Kraftwerk.

QotSA are more critically acclaimed than FF, not LZ lol

They gave up the ghost after OKC because they knew they couldn't match it or better it, so they decided to do something totally different so as to not draw direct comparisons. I can't think of another rock act as highly acclaimed as Radiohead that was so afraid of tarnishing their own legacy right in the prime of their career. Kid A is the most pretentious album I've ever heard. It's incredibly boring and devoid of any real melody. Darkness can be a good thing in music, but to base an entire album on 'woe is me' is poor taste and frankly shows a lack of self awareness. The lyrics are nothing but self pity, unlike equally gloomy bands such as The Smiths and Alice in Chains who self depreciate but have the foresight and taste to not pity themselves. Unlike Ok Computer, Kid A rarely builds to any crescendos; the songs do not go anywhere or build to anything. They just tend to meander about in gloominess until they are over. Random electronic meanderings are not a substitute for dynamics or creativity (or lack thereof).

 

[Post Ironic]

 

[ZoSo]

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