Rate Juve's mercato (2 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

9/10

Positives
Defence got significantly boosted with Alves and Benatia and is now hands down the best and most complete defence in the world, with the most options.
Midfield got more creative, and can handly any given formation.
Offence got a massive boost with Higuain.

Negatives

Pogba got replaced by Pjanic and Pjaca. Pjanic replaces the lost offensive output. Pjaca replaces the "talent factor". We however have not compensated for the loss of physical presence and ball retention under pressure that we had with Pogba in a decent or better form.
Should have gotten another cm. We tried, but it didnt arrive



Conclusion
9/10 as it is.

9.5 would be if we had gotten a physical cm option. Ye Beppe knew Pogba was going so there were options

10 would be if we would have taken risks and got Higuain and either kept pogba (which is insane), or got another high profile decisive midfielder like james (which is probably insane aswel)




I'm quite happy when the cm wasent gonna happen, we got Cuads back tbh

 

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[Hydde]

A solid 7.5/ or 8.

The higuain buy could be maybe the most impactful one since our resurgence. But we will need to wait and see.

We got benathia who seems to be very good and pjanic is a great signing. Even if i think we have not figured how to use him. But it will come with time hopefully.

Cuadrado and alves will do us good since both will have something to offer to us.

Losing pogba and most importantly, not getting a back up to him while keeping asamoa Is definitely the elephant in the room for me.
Even more after knowing marchisio was on a long term injury. We failed here.

I would have liked us to replace mandzukic. I think he will be the flop of the season.

So a 7.5 or 8... and depending on how the season go it could get better, depending also on how the mystery signings like Pjaca deliver.

 

[duranfj]

So do you like to make your opinions with mondays newspaper?

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I knew I was being too positive when I voted in this poll

 

[Cronios]

The lads are still integrating, its up to them and the coach how fast and efficient this happens, not the transfer manager's...
His job ends when the season starts and should be rated mostly about the quality of the players he got and less about their integration, however i reckon that Pjaca doesnt seem to be Juve material and we may have overpaid for him...
We were wise to only loan Benatia though!

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

The lads are still integrating, its up to them and the coach how fast and efficient this happens, not the transfer manager's...
His job ends when the season starts and should be rated mostly about the quality of the players he got and less about their integration, however i reckon that Pjaca doesnt seem to be Juve material and we may have overpaid for him...
We were wise to only loan Benatia though!

Wat

 

[Hist]

Great Mercato on paper. Coaching team injured the whole squad and the manager cant get them to play together properly despite an over abundance of talent.

 

[Klovn]

Wat

With all these games Pjaca has played, you can't see it? Clearly a flop by a mile

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Great Mercato on paper. Coaching team injured the whole squad and the manager cant get them to play together properly despite an over abundance of talent.

How would you set up our midfield?

With all these games Pjaca has played, you can't see it? Clearly a flop by a mile

Yeah, I thought he was being too kind.

 

[Hist]

How would you set up our midfield?
Yeah, I thought he was being too kind.

I would have them practice situations and drill particular movements with and without the ball into the players. Thats what Conte (and pep if you want the extreme case) does. He doesnt just put them into a shape and wait for them to find a working formula organically.

Thats why Conte is better at laying foundations and drilling the basics into a squad while...Allegri is better at freeing up a squad that already has the basics as second nature.

 

[il brutto]

I would have them practice situations and drill particular movements with and without the ball into the players. Thats what Conte (and pep if you want the extreme case) does. He doesnt just put them into a shape and wait for them to find a working formula organically.

Thats why Conte is better at laying foundations and drilling the basics into a squad while...Allegri is better at freeing up a squad that already has the basics as second nature.

Could you give us who haven't visited Vinovo on consistent basis a more thorough review on Allegri's training methods?

 

[Hist]

Could you give us who haven't visited Vinovo on consistent basis a more thorough review on Allegri's training methods?

You can see it in what the players and the coach say, and more importantly you can see it on the pitch.

Conte took a relatively weak squad with no prior winning experience or functioning system and stamped his "principles" on them in no time. He did that again at Italy without a midfield and he is doing it at Chelsea. Watch his interviews and you will see how often he talks about "situations practice" and "principles". Players say the same thing about Pep. Plenty of players have spoken about Conte's training methods.

Allegri on the other hand took half a season to find a functioning formula last season despite a much superior squad most of which have already been playing and winning together for years, and he is doing it again this season (I think we will recover eventually) and did it before with Milan when they had to come back from the abyss. His teams start slow, look like headless chickens with no recognizable pattern of play for a long time before things click. To me that either says his ideas are so complex that players dont get them for the first half season, or he is so bad at teaching his ideas that it takes a life time to get them across, or he gives players the freedom to find a system they are comfortable in. I remember Tevez saying that Allegri gives much more freedom than Conte who has all the movements maps out and drilled into the players.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Max always starts slow, but in the end the results are pretty much the same, no? Except for CL games of course.

But i gotta give you that, It only took Antonio one matchday to set up that drilled Chelsea Machine, and that team consists of mediocre players, imagine what he could do with quality players!

I'd say he drills the creativity right out of his players. The pep comparison

 

[Hist]

Could you give us who haven't visited Vinovo on consistent basis a more thorough review on Allegri's training methods?

Read this: http://twentyminutereads.com/2016/08/09/the-hammer/


The relevant part to what I was saying:

Conte’s methods were by now well established. In some ways, they combined teachings from Sacchi as well as Van Gaal. The Sacchi influence was evident in the exercises and the attention to detail. In training, Juve would play eleven versus nobody. The players would shift positions in order to achieve the perfect distance between the lines. No matter how much they practiced, Conte always managed to find corrections. “Allergic to error,” was Pirlo’s diagnosis.

The process was aided by Conte’s love for video analysis. At Juve, according to Alciato, he had every training session filmed, and would dispatch his brother Gianluca to the press box to get a better view of matches. “Video analysis is big for me,” Conte recently told the Daily Mail. “Through video you see good things and bad things and can show players how to improve. Not because I want to find blame. Only to improve them. It is very important. Sometimes, twenty or thirty minutes with the video is more important than three, four or five training sessions.”

Above all, Conte showed his predilection for predetermined movements. He is not a great believer in individual expression. Attacks are rehearsed in advance; like trains on a railway, the players run on certain tracks. “Conte has the ability to make you memorise movements and tactics very quickly,” said Mattia De Sciglio, according to Football Italia. “So if you are having a moment of difficulty on the field, you know that one of your teammates will be in that position.”

This is the idea. Conte wants to provide automatic solutions so that the players know what to do with the ball. “I did not have Zinédine Zidane or Roberto Baggio’s talent as a player…” Conte said in 2013, according to Football Italia. “When I was a player, my efforts and work-rate, my willingness to sacrifice fitness and humility, made up for my lack of pure talent. But sometimes, if I didn’t find a team-mate next to me, I might lose the ball. As a manager, my first thought from day one was that I wanted to find solutions for my players when the ball reached them, as I could not.”

This partly explains why Conte favours grafters ahead of wizards. If the players follow instructions, Conte believes the automatic movements will produce chances. This is similar to Van Gaal, who favours a slow but formulaic model in which creativity is not provided by individuals, but the system. The scope for self-expression is narrow. The same is true of Rafa Benítez, a Sacchi disciple, whose trainings feature comparable rehearsals. Incidentally, Conte, Van Gaal and Benítez were all defensive midfielders who were neither quick nor particularly skilful....Critical voices have portrayed Conte as more of a drill sergeant than a calculated strategist. Some notable comparisons have certainly emerged. Already in August 2014, Marchisio told Tuttosport that Juve were playing with more freedom. A year later, according to Football Italia, Barzagli told La Stampa: “Conte was often our motivator, but Allegri has worked on tactics and management and what has materialised is this team.”

Also up front were changes noticed. “With Allegri, I have more freedom of movement than under Conte,” Tévez told El País in 2015, via Football Italia. “Under the previous coach, we played with two strikers, in fixed positions and close together. Under Allegri, we only have a fixed position when we don’t have the ball, but we’re more free to play the way we want to play when we attack.”...

Thats almost exactly the comparison in approach that I was mentioning and why Conte is better at building teams (especially when his squad is lacking in many areas) while allegri can take an already well-drilled team higher than Conte by freeing up a few players, while the rest have Conte's movements as second nature. I am interested in seeing if his Chelsea will hit a ceiling below their full potential when the squad becomes full of WC players in every spot. The freedom he is affording hazard is a good sign he will be more flexible than he was with Tevez for example.

 

[il brutto]

Read this: http://twentyminutereads.com/2016/08/09/the-hammer/

Spoiler

The relevant part to what I was saying:

Conte’s methods were by now well established. In some ways, they combined teachings from Sacchi as well as Van Gaal. The Sacchi influence was evident in the exercises and the attention to detail. In training, Juve would play eleven versus nobody. The players would shift positions in order to achieve the perfect distance between the lines. No matter how much they practiced, Conte always managed to find corrections. “Allergic to error,” was Pirlo’s diagnosis.

The process was aided by Conte’s love for video analysis. At Juve, according to Alciato, he had every training session filmed, and would dispatch his brother Gianluca to the press box to get a better view of matches. “Video analysis is big for me,” Conte recently told the Daily Mail. “Through video you see good things and bad things and can show players how to improve. Not because I want to find blame. Only to improve them. It is very important. Sometimes, twenty or thirty minutes with the video is more important than three, four or five training sessions.”

Above all, Conte showed his predilection for predetermined movements. He is not a great believer in individual expression. Attacks are rehearsed in advance; like trains on a railway, the players run on certain tracks. “Conte has the ability to make you memorise movements and tactics very quickly,” said Mattia De Sciglio, according to Football Italia. “So if you are having a moment of difficulty on the field, you know that one of your teammates will be in that position.”

This is the idea. Conte wants to provide automatic solutions so that the players know what to do with the ball. “I did not have Zinédine Zidane or Roberto Baggio’s talent as a player…” Conte said in 2013, according to Football Italia. “When I was a player, my efforts and work-rate, my willingness to sacrifice fitness and humility, made up for my lack of pure talent. But sometimes, if I didn’t find a team-mate next to me, I might lose the ball. As a manager, my first thought from day one was that I wanted to find solutions for my players when the ball reached them, as I could not.”

This partly explains why Conte favours grafters ahead of wizards. If the players follow instructions, Conte believes the automatic movements will produce chances. This is similar to Van Gaal, who favours a slow but formulaic model in which creativity is not provided by individuals, but the system. The scope for self-expression is narrow. The same is true of Rafa Benítez, a Sacchi disciple, whose trainings feature comparable rehearsals. Incidentally, Conte, Van Gaal and Benítez were all defensive midfielders who were neither quick nor particularly skilful....Critical voices have portrayed Conte as more of a drill sergeant than a calculated strategist. Some notable comparisons have certainly emerged. Already in August 2014, Marchisio told Tuttosport that Juve were playing with more freedom. A year later, according to Football Italia, Barzagli told La Stampa: “Conte was often our motivator, but Allegri has worked on tactics and management and what has materialised is this team.”

Also up front were changes noticed. “With Allegri, I have more freedom of movement than under Conte,” Tévez told El País in 2015, via Football Italia. “Under the previous coach, we played with two strikers, in fixed positions and close together. Under Allegri, we only have a fixed position when we don’t have the ball, but we’re more free to play the way we want to play when we attack.”...

Thats almost exactly the comparison in approach that I was mentioning and why Conte is better at building teams (especially when his squad is lacking in many areas) while allegri can take an already well-drilled team higher than Conte by freeing up a few players, while the rest have Conte's movements as second nature. I am interested in seeing if his Chelsea will hit a ceiling below their full potential when the squad becomes full of WC players in every spot. The freedom he is affording hazard is a good sign he will be more flexible than he was with Tevez for example.

I'll read it when I have better time. Still there seems to be very little info on Allegri's training methods.

Yeah Tevez turned into a machine under Allegri.