Ramadan Kareem!! (27 Viewers)

Aug 1, 2003
17,696
lac, its not compulsory for you to say PBUH. you could just say muhammad. however when someone does say PBUH, it is very best if u say PBUH urself. and as for muslims, we say muhammad salla-allahu-alaihi-wassalam, but we too say isa (jesus) alaihi-ssalam, musa (moses) alaihi-salam , they are our prophets too.

glenn if u wanna know bout muhammad watch the message movie. michael ansara looked very good in that movie :D
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,696
muhammad was born to abdullah and aminah. his father died before he was born, and shortly after he was born, his mother died. so, he's an orphan.

muhammad is an illiterate. he can't write nor read. he's a shepherd. after the death of his mother, he went on to live with his grandpa abdul mutallib. unfortunately his grandfather, too, died. so, he went on to live with his uncle abu talib.

one day muhammad followed abu talib to shyam (i dunno what the country's called now) and one of the priests there told abu talib to bring muhammad back to macca as he prophecied muhammad as the next prophet and afraid he would be killed.

so, muhammad went back to macca with abu talib, and worked as a shepherd. he grew to be a man, an honest man. everyone in mecca knew him as al amin, reflecting his honesty. everyone admired him.

he worked for khadijah, a rich widow. khadijah instantly became attracted to his beautiful personality and proposed to marry him. he agreed.

well i think its too long of a post. i'll post some more bout him later.
 

Zizou

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2003
3,965
Well thanks for your stories Lac and sally. I never had heard much about him so at least now I know something :)

Majed but the Bible was written by the appostles under the influence of the Holy Spirit, so whatever they wrote was written by God per se. I really don't see a difference between how the Bible and Quran were written.
 

Zizou

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2003
3,965
Well religion, just like communism has noble and good roots, but then people exploit them and end up doing bad things as an excuse of following religion/politics.

From what I have read here, Muslims seem to take religion more to their heart than Christians or other religious people do. I'm just wondering but how do you succeed in liking your religion so much when it sounds such a strict religion?

And a general question: Why and how do you believe in God? I mean how can you believe in a God you pray to but you don't see?
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,696
Islam is not strict. Okay, it is, but its strict in a good way- just for the record, please don't believe the media. they're trying to screw islam up.

glenn i dont really understand your question. what do you mean how do we believe in God?

goat, what makes you think god doesn't exist? just asking :D
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
++ [ originally posted by GOAT ] ++
I know I might insult some people here with this, but I honestly think religion is the worst thing to happen to mankind.

you havent insulted anyone so far. and your right. religion is a bit of a pain in the ass. it hampers progress, causes numerous conflicts, bloodshed, jealousy etc.

but thats when you look at it from an atheists point of view.

try putting yourself in the shoes of a believer, and you might see something radically different
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
But I cant nor do I want to put myself in their shoes. But you are right Josh, it is from my point of view and I'm sore almost noone will agree with me.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Hey anyone can explain the story of Mohammed? I don't much about him, actually nothing....who he was, what he did, etc...

And is it obligatory to say PBUH after each Mohammed? And you only say it after Mohammed's name? Or it could also be told after dsomeone else's name?

We say PBUH for respect, not because it's a custom. you could say that it's almost obligatory. The same goes for all other prophets (Jesus PBUH, Moses PBUH...etc.)

Muhammad was born in Makkah in the year 570. Since his father died before his birth and his mother died shortly thereafter, he was raised by his uncle who was from the respected tribe of Quraysh. He was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained so till his death. His people, before his mission as a prophet, were ignorant of science and most of them were illiterate. As he grew up, he became known to be truthful, honest, trustworthy, generous, and sincere. He was so trustworthy that they called him the Trustworthy.1 Muhammad was very religious, and he had long detested the decadence and idolatry of his society.

At the age of forty (by this Time, he had married khadijah who was wealthy), Muhammad received his first revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. The revelations continued for twenty-three years, and they are collectively known as the Quran.

As soon as he began to recite the Quran and to preach the truth which God had revealed to him, he and his small group of followers suffered persecution from unbelievers. The persecution grew so fierce that in the year 622 God gave them the command to emigrate. This emigration from Makkah to the city of Madinah, some 260 miles to the north, marks the beginning of the Muslim calendar. (Al-Hijrah Calander... Many Arab countries use this date. Right now, it's the year 1423...though the years are 11 days shorter because the Hijrah years follow the Lunar years not Solar years)

After several years, Muhammad and his followers were able to return to Makkah, where they forgave their enemies. Before Muhammad died, at the age of sixty-three, the greater part of the Arabian Peninsula had become Muslim, and within a century of his death, Islam had spread to Spain in the West and as far East as China. Among the reasons for the rapid and peaceful spread of Islam was the truth and clarity of its doctrine. Islam calls for faith in only one God, Who is the only one worthy of worship.

The Prophet Muhammad was a perfect example of an honest, just, merciful, compassionate, truthful, and brave human being. Though he was a man, he was far removed from all evil characteristics and strove solely for the sake of God and His reward in the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of God.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++

And a general question: Why and how do you believe in God? I mean how can you believe in a God you pray to but you don't see?
Small test:
be honest...no jokes:

If i Slap you hard on your face what would you feel?
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++

In that case, if you want to know what Lippi truly said as if your life and soul depends on it, isnt it better to accept just one official source for -example the official marcelo lippi website - as the truth, rather than see it through 2nd or 3rd party eyes like all the journalists writings.
That's why most/all Bible scholars learn Hebrew and Greek, so they can read the original Old and New Testament writings respectively.

++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
In Islam there is just one official source. AL Quran. As Majed explained, the words in Al Quran is God's words sent through MUhammad PBUH
I don't see why you think Christianity doesn't have one official source, the Bible. Sure, it might've been translated into many languages, but so has the Quran, which was also phyiscally written by a man.

++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
We believe that Arabic is the language of the afterlife and will be use in heaven. Al Quran is only the words in arabic and the translation in other languages are only mere translations to help understandings.
So does that mean Muslims who speak languages other than Arabic are at a disadvantage?

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
i still dont see why now all bibles are the same yet they are all called "Bibles!!"

There's proof that many verses have been changed or removed not too long ago. They dont match and yet they are all said teach the actions of Jesus.
Yes, some verses have been removed, but most Bibles take note. On the bottom of the page, it might say "some manuscripts read: ________", so they haven't been completely wiped out, they're just ommitted from some translations.

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Thomas but the church does not recognise his Gospel because in it he does not recognise the church or something like that. He says that the church is inside us. Probably Gray can explain better.
I dont' know that much about the Gospel of Thomas, but I don't see the reasonin behind this. The church is within is, the church isn't a building or an institution. The church is the body of Christ, his believers.

Romans 12:5

"So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others".

The church = Christians = the body of Christ.

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Ok I got confused with protestants...right gray? You guys don't believe it? Or am I confusing again?
All Christians AFAIK believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus.

++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
Maybe part of it ,if Gray could say if there is any part or Gospel that is told and written directly word by word by Jesus . is there any such part or Gospel Gray?
No, his disciples wrote the accounts of what Jesus said.

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++

True that they may follow it. and i have to respect what they follow.
But doesn't this alarm you that what you are following "may" be words that were never said by Jesus or words that meant something else but were lost during translation?
Okay, using the press conference idea again. Just say there were hundreds or thousands of journalists that heard Lippi's comments. If one of the journalists wrote "Lippi wants to sell Del Piero", when he said nothing of the sort, won't this article quickly be shot down and discounted as void? If incorrect statements were made in the writings, then everyone who saw what actually happened would make sure these writings aren't told as fact.

i think the Qur'an is a different case because the Qur'an has never been translated. it was written in ARABIC and not a single word has been changed since the Prophet Mohammed PBUH so there's no ambiguety of you know ARABIC.

To protect the meaning, the Qur'an isn't even allowed to be Translated word for word. only the explenations of the verses can be translated in every language.
Just a question: where did the explanations come from? Did a human write these translations in Arabic, and they were translated into other languages?

Qur'an are words by God himself that were revealed to Mohammed PBUH. He understood/grasped the intent of revelation through divine refulgence.
Since he couldn't even read or write, God made him memorize it by heart.
When he would first recite a verse, him and his followers would memorize it by heart (not uncommon back then to memorize because poetry was very common).
So every verse was memorized and many of his followers knew it by heart. Then it was gathered and written by those who knew him.
Another question: how long after it was revealed to muhammad, did he tell his disciples? I don't see why this string of events is more reliable than people writing accounts of what they saw... human memory is less reliable than writing on paper, and someone telling another person from memory is hard to record...does anyone remember the game "chinese whispers"?

wherever you go around the world, there is no one copy of the Qur'an different from the other!
That's the same with the Bible. The original Hebrew and Greek versions stay the same.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
++ [ originally posted by sallyinzaghi ] ++
well all speaking in arabic is under god's power. somehow we will all be able to speak it when we're dead (another miracle)
Why can't we speak our more comfortable language in heaven? I hope this doesn't sound offensive, but I think we should be allowed to speak English or Korean or whatever in heaven.

btw i have the same disclaimer as josh. Just PM or e-mail me if i offend you, i really don't mean to :)


Josh, i haven't got the internet right now, because i moved house. I'll be on hopefully at the end of this week :D
 

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