PRE-SEASON : Juventus - Manchester United (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Stu
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The result itself is naturally a let down but it's totally insignificant.
What we saw was a United team that's ready for PL and Community Shield in only 9 days- whereas it's a Juve team that is just under preparation for the serieA which will start in a month. Manchester had already shown to be sensationally early on catching match fitness while routing Celtic 4-0 (in CL qualifiers as early as wednesday). This was no surprise, and less so when you consider the experimental status of the Juve lineup.
Our defence is not yet coordinated admittedly, and several players are quite clearly not in any shape at all. Here I'm referring especially to Trezeguet and Camoranesi, whereas Chimenti and Conte may just be that poor
. Legro wasn't too bad I think, but Thuram's expertise is noticeable in absentia, also because he covers more than his right side and thus leaves the central defenders in a better spot. Defensive organisation is something we have to work on surely. Ferrara, almost by default- seemed the better of our central defenders.
What is on the other hand encouraging is that Di Vaio shows much, much, much more promise right now than he did last year and more so, for a fan of Enzo's like me, Maresca has simply taken the same leadership attitude he had at Piacenza right back to Juve. This is a guy who seems to say "I don't care if you guys are all super stars, scudetto winners and CL finalists. Just give me the ball and I'll know what to do" and he fights like a lion as well. Personally- I think he is the best aquisition of the summer even if he won't see as much playing time as Legro or Miccoli for obvious reasons.
Last of all- some praise needed for Verón (marvellous game) and Nistelrooy who is so sharp you wonder why he's not constantly cutting himself. Phenomenal player, and quite simply the best area striker in the business hands down.
But worry not. When Lippi makes a starting 11 and players are in shape- we're ready to kick ass. Also United's although we have to respect that they're one of the great sides in Europe too.
I feel like adding Lippi's post game comment (tapped from BBC):
"When you play against a team of Manchester United's calibre, you know it is possible you might lose the game.
"But that doesn't mean you can just go out and play on your own.
"We are only 10 days into our pre-season programme and that might account for the 4-1 defeat because United passed the ball far quicker than we did.
"You can be a champion player but even great champions cannot play by themselves."
Lippi is very much right of course. It seemed as if some of our players tried to make up for the natural lack of coherence in the side by doing too much on their own. Both a natural reaction to team play being less than perfect at this stage, and because players wants to show themselves favourably as our squad is very deep right now. The result was us looking pedestrian in our build up, whereas United were very sharp and constructive on their passing. It's something to work on, and the players have a pre-season benchmark. It's not that bad at all.
Ciao.
What we saw was a United team that's ready for PL and Community Shield in only 9 days- whereas it's a Juve team that is just under preparation for the serieA which will start in a month. Manchester had already shown to be sensationally early on catching match fitness while routing Celtic 4-0 (in CL qualifiers as early as wednesday). This was no surprise, and less so when you consider the experimental status of the Juve lineup.
Our defence is not yet coordinated admittedly, and several players are quite clearly not in any shape at all. Here I'm referring especially to Trezeguet and Camoranesi, whereas Chimenti and Conte may just be that poor
. Legro wasn't too bad I think, but Thuram's expertise is noticeable in absentia, also because he covers more than his right side and thus leaves the central defenders in a better spot. Defensive organisation is something we have to work on surely. Ferrara, almost by default- seemed the better of our central defenders.What is on the other hand encouraging is that Di Vaio shows much, much, much more promise right now than he did last year and more so, for a fan of Enzo's like me, Maresca has simply taken the same leadership attitude he had at Piacenza right back to Juve. This is a guy who seems to say "I don't care if you guys are all super stars, scudetto winners and CL finalists. Just give me the ball and I'll know what to do" and he fights like a lion as well. Personally- I think he is the best aquisition of the summer even if he won't see as much playing time as Legro or Miccoli for obvious reasons.
Last of all- some praise needed for Verón (marvellous game) and Nistelrooy who is so sharp you wonder why he's not constantly cutting himself. Phenomenal player, and quite simply the best area striker in the business hands down.
But worry not. When Lippi makes a starting 11 and players are in shape- we're ready to kick ass. Also United's although we have to respect that they're one of the great sides in Europe too.
I feel like adding Lippi's post game comment (tapped from BBC):
"When you play against a team of Manchester United's calibre, you know it is possible you might lose the game.
"But that doesn't mean you can just go out and play on your own.
"We are only 10 days into our pre-season programme and that might account for the 4-1 defeat because United passed the ball far quicker than we did.
"You can be a champion player but even great champions cannot play by themselves."
Lippi is very much right of course. It seemed as if some of our players tried to make up for the natural lack of coherence in the side by doing too much on their own. Both a natural reaction to team play being less than perfect at this stage, and because players wants to show themselves favourably as our squad is very deep right now. The result was us looking pedestrian in our build up, whereas United were very sharp and constructive on their passing. It's something to work on, and the players have a pre-season benchmark. It's not that bad at all.
Ciao.
Hopefully he'll recover in time for the Supercoppa Italiana.BTW guys, our new players look very confident and are playing well Maresca was along with Davids the best Juventino on the pitch in the first half and his passing is really good :thumb: Enzo is a complete midfielder, he's a great tackler, a great dribbler and a great passer :strong: Miccoli, though he wasn't very effective, showed some good signs and I hope to see him in the starting lineup for the Supercoppa game Legrottaglie didn't really have much to do because after Neddy, DP and Treze came on we were attacking non-stop and the commentator on my tv kept saying "Man U are afraid, they're very afraid" When Legro did have something to do though, he did it with confidence and he looked very good with the ball at his feet, plus, he almost scored a nice header from a Del Piero corner. Appiah was like Maresca, just not quite as good. His passing was good and he brought a good save out of Tim Howard with a blistering left footed shot :thumb: Overall, this was a good outing for Juve despite the embarressing scoreline, and I think that Lippi now knows what he has to work on and which formation he should play for the upcoming season
Maresca was along with Davids the best Juventino on the pitch in the first half and his passing is really good :thumb: Enzo is a complete midfielder, he's a great tackler, a great dribbler and a great passer :strong: Miccoli, though he wasn't very effective, showed some good signs and I hope to see him in the starting lineup for the Supercoppa game Legrottaglie didn't really have much to do because after Neddy, DP and Treze came on we were attacking non-stop and the commentator on my tv kept saying "Man U are afraid, they're very afraid" When Legro did have something to do though, he did it with confidence and he looked very good with the ball at his feet, plus, he almost scored a nice header from a Del Piero corner. Appiah was like Maresca, just not quite as good. His passing was good and he brought a good save out of Tim Howard with a blistering left footed shot :thumb: Overall, this was a good outing for Juve despite the embarressing scoreline, and I think that Lippi now knows what he has to work on and which formation he should play for the upcoming season 
The match took on added significance with the death of Chiusano; it was downright disrespectful and humiliating to get whacked 4-1 right after the club president's passing. I think that explained the total change in attitude by substitutions at the hour, the timing which I believed was planned but not the quantity.
1st half. Formation was 4-4-2. CD pairing was good but the fullbacks, especially Pessotto, were atrocious. The sight of Phil Neville marauding at will on the right meant something was very wrong. Lotsa blame must go to whoever was supposed to be the left-winger, a responsibility bizarrely shared between Davids and Conte when neither was actually there. Conte was largely anonymous while Davids was too busy taking matters into his own hands all over the field. Another forgettable outing for Camoranesi, who played like a pansy against Fortune. The saving grace was CM, led expertly by Maresca. Even then, with the wings essentially clipped and Enzo anchoring in a recessed role, attacking support was minimal. The most common mode was route-one, usually with Maresca punting a long one for DV/Miccoli to chase. That said, both had clear chances to score but conspired to mess all up.
1st goal - Giggs' freekick 25 yds out in the centre sailed past Conte (who didn't jump with the rest) into Buffon's top-left. Before that, things were pretty even. After going 1 up, ManU had the better of the exchanges until HT.
2nd half. ManU picked up from where they left off. Juve had increasing difficulties in regaining possession and breaking out of their own half. The result was inevitable.
2nd goal - LB (Pessotto, I think) lost his man inside the 18 yd area which eventually resulted in Scholes slotting a low drive into bottom-right past Chimenti.
3rd goal - Chip by Veron wrong-footed the entire defence which RVN chest-n-volleyed a superb goal from about 15 yards.
That was it. 8 subs came in, notably DP, Trez, Nedved, Tach, Appiah into what seemed like a 4-2-3-1. Miccoli, despite a poor game, remained and played wide right. Didn't impress. His fitness is highly suspect and this is one issue Lippi must bear in mind following Camo's sh!t 2nd half of last season : Maresca, Appiah, Miccoli and Legro will probably last only half a competitive season. It makes sense to start the newbies and end with the veterans.
Back to the game, it was ManU's turn to get pegged back. Nedved and co. were peppering Howard's goal with shots and the cannon eventually blasted one in. Trez missed 3 gd chances and DP a couple as well. Howard was in inspired form and just when Juve looked capable of clawing back, Solskjaer scored on the break. Forlan missed horribly after a horrendous mishandle by Chimenti or it would have been 5. Keane clobbered Nedved and DP fired another crap freekick into the wall. On that, one more question : WHY on earth is DV taking freekicks when Maresca/Miccoli is around?
Overall, an effective performance by a reserve team until they capitulated spectacularly in the 2nd half. Maresca is a fantastic addition and is ready to dislodge Tach. Appiah, while not as accomplished as Davids, packs a fantastic shot with his left foot. Legro looks technically a cut above all our defenders except Thuram. Miccoli shows plenty of promise but nowhere near DP as yet. Nedved remains our singlemost potent attacking force; either Stankovic/Riquelme would address this issue. Trez, with his amazing box-sense, creates mayhem in the 18 yd area. Zambro is WASTED at LB and while Pessotto/Birindelli ensures we don't lose games, they won't win us games like Thuram/Zambro would. Wingback depth a pressing concern, IMO - Heinze? Jankulovski? Its unfortunate that Grygera slipped the net. Chimenti is garbage and a decent 2nd keeper is another pressing consideration.
1st half. Formation was 4-4-2. CD pairing was good but the fullbacks, especially Pessotto, were atrocious. The sight of Phil Neville marauding at will on the right meant something was very wrong. Lotsa blame must go to whoever was supposed to be the left-winger, a responsibility bizarrely shared between Davids and Conte when neither was actually there. Conte was largely anonymous while Davids was too busy taking matters into his own hands all over the field. Another forgettable outing for Camoranesi, who played like a pansy against Fortune. The saving grace was CM, led expertly by Maresca. Even then, with the wings essentially clipped and Enzo anchoring in a recessed role, attacking support was minimal. The most common mode was route-one, usually with Maresca punting a long one for DV/Miccoli to chase. That said, both had clear chances to score but conspired to mess all up.
1st goal - Giggs' freekick 25 yds out in the centre sailed past Conte (who didn't jump with the rest) into Buffon's top-left. Before that, things were pretty even. After going 1 up, ManU had the better of the exchanges until HT.
2nd half. ManU picked up from where they left off. Juve had increasing difficulties in regaining possession and breaking out of their own half. The result was inevitable.
2nd goal - LB (Pessotto, I think) lost his man inside the 18 yd area which eventually resulted in Scholes slotting a low drive into bottom-right past Chimenti.
3rd goal - Chip by Veron wrong-footed the entire defence which RVN chest-n-volleyed a superb goal from about 15 yards.
That was it. 8 subs came in, notably DP, Trez, Nedved, Tach, Appiah into what seemed like a 4-2-3-1. Miccoli, despite a poor game, remained and played wide right. Didn't impress. His fitness is highly suspect and this is one issue Lippi must bear in mind following Camo's sh!t 2nd half of last season : Maresca, Appiah, Miccoli and Legro will probably last only half a competitive season. It makes sense to start the newbies and end with the veterans.
Back to the game, it was ManU's turn to get pegged back. Nedved and co. were peppering Howard's goal with shots and the cannon eventually blasted one in. Trez missed 3 gd chances and DP a couple as well. Howard was in inspired form and just when Juve looked capable of clawing back, Solskjaer scored on the break. Forlan missed horribly after a horrendous mishandle by Chimenti or it would have been 5. Keane clobbered Nedved and DP fired another crap freekick into the wall. On that, one more question : WHY on earth is DV taking freekicks when Maresca/Miccoli is around?
Overall, an effective performance by a reserve team until they capitulated spectacularly in the 2nd half. Maresca is a fantastic addition and is ready to dislodge Tach. Appiah, while not as accomplished as Davids, packs a fantastic shot with his left foot. Legro looks technically a cut above all our defenders except Thuram. Miccoli shows plenty of promise but nowhere near DP as yet. Nedved remains our singlemost potent attacking force; either Stankovic/Riquelme would address this issue. Trez, with his amazing box-sense, creates mayhem in the 18 yd area. Zambro is WASTED at LB and while Pessotto/Birindelli ensures we don't lose games, they won't win us games like Thuram/Zambro would. Wingback depth a pressing concern, IMO - Heinze? Jankulovski? Its unfortunate that Grygera slipped the net. Chimenti is garbage and a decent 2nd keeper is another pressing consideration.
Well u said it all nothing to add....
1.PLZ GOD HELP US AND LET NEDDY TO RECOVER...
2.To lose the supercoppa will be A DISASTER!!!Yeas,it will be those friendlies+the Chuisiano's death really pissed off and dissapointed all the juventini's around the world...:down:
SO
nothing,but a WIN against Milan.:fero:
i also thinks that it was good in someway that we lost coz the players angry as well and we'll want to kick out this BLACK/RED ASS!!!:fero:
FOZA JUVE!!!
1.PLZ GOD HELP US AND LET NEDDY TO RECOVER...
2.To lose the supercoppa will be A DISASTER!!!Yeas,it will be those friendlies+the Chuisiano's death really pissed off and dissapointed all the juventini's around the world...:down:
SO
nothing,but a WIN against Milan.:fero:
i also thinks that it was good in someway that we lost coz the players angry as well and we'll want to kick out this BLACK/RED ASS!!!:fero:
FOZA JUVE!!!
Agreed on all but one account slack. Actually... I agree on the part I don't agree with also, but that's... .
I'm thinking about Zambrotta who you said is wasted on left back. I kinda agree. He is better as a midfielder for sure.
However; looking at our squad- I think left back it's the best position for him (or more correctly for Juve which is thus the same- also if we were to buy Jankulowski or Heinze (for instance).
Why?
Simply because if we are to try and play Miccoli as a starter it will doubtlessly be 4-2-3-1 which means Davids and Tacchinardi are virtually guranteed as the starting central duo- with very, very ample covereage in Maresca and Appiah (personally I think Maresca will eventually win a starting spot).
If that is to be considered the 'first' formation- then if were buying a starting left back we have both Zambro and Camo on the bench. I'm all for having Camo on Di Vaio on rotation in the 4 man attack, but Zambro too... It may be a bit over the top I think. These 3 are all 'Trap squad' regulars now. Zambro will get to play in midfield as games progresses and Lippi makes tactical substitutions anyway- just like last year.
So- yes I would have liked Grygera too to make an upgrade on especially Pessotto but also Biri. But it's likely to be difficult getting somone who'll accept the bench as we didn't take Seric or Music this year. Jankulowski is rumoured to be a big target for Juve as he's so versatile, but he is already confirmed with last seasons big performances, and as a Czeck starter... I don't know. It would be good, but is it a pressing concern, and can we expect to insert a new player successfully in high impact games- with better dividends than 'usually' reliable Birindelli and Pessotto?
Finally- We're not going to play every big match with a physical deficit. Usually- we can always count on that as being in our favor.
Ciao.
.I'm thinking about Zambrotta who you said is wasted on left back. I kinda agree. He is better as a midfielder for sure.
However; looking at our squad- I think left back it's the best position for him (or more correctly for Juve which is thus the same
- also if we were to buy Jankulowski or Heinze (for instance).Why?
Simply because if we are to try and play Miccoli as a starter it will doubtlessly be 4-2-3-1 which means Davids and Tacchinardi are virtually guranteed as the starting central duo- with very, very ample covereage in Maresca and Appiah (personally I think Maresca will eventually win a starting spot).
If that is to be considered the 'first' formation- then if were buying a starting left back we have both Zambro and Camo on the bench. I'm all for having Camo on Di Vaio on rotation in the 4 man attack, but Zambro too... It may be a bit over the top I think. These 3 are all 'Trap squad' regulars now. Zambro will get to play in midfield as games progresses and Lippi makes tactical substitutions anyway- just like last year.
So- yes I would have liked Grygera too to make an upgrade on especially Pessotto but also Biri. But it's likely to be difficult getting somone who'll accept the bench as we didn't take Seric or Music this year. Jankulowski is rumoured to be a big target for Juve as he's so versatile, but he is already confirmed with last seasons big performances, and as a Czeck starter... I don't know. It would be good, but is it a pressing concern, and can we expect to insert a new player successfully in high impact games- with better dividends than 'usually' reliable Birindelli and Pessotto?
Finally- We're not going to play every big match with a physical deficit. Usually- we can always count on that as being in our favor.
Ciao.
