Pablo Javier Zabaleta (5 Viewers)

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v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
Lets see, what will you say when we will run out of excuses and our defense will be the reason for our failures, for the 3rd consecutive year...
I'll say we still got enough time according to our 5 year plan ;)

seriously where did we fail in achieving our goals the last to seasons ?

2006/2007 we wanted to go straight to serie a again and we got promoted on first place ...

2007/2008 we wanted to play international and we succeeded in reaching the champions league ...

where is the failure ?
 

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Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
The last two years weren't too bad, actually.
Our defense was...
Our realistic goals were met
(not the lame ones, including titles)

But our weak spot, was the defense, every year
And this should be our priority to fix,
if we want to become a competitive team, we shouldnt allow such incompetence on our and unbalanced squad, when we hunt perfection...
We lost many points because of silly defensive mistakes.
As we challenge advanced teams, in serious competitions, some details maybe enough to make the difference in such level.
A few points lost against average teams in serie A and a single mistake in a CL knock out game, against a top team, less flawed than our defense, would matter now, more than any other time!
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
where is the failure ?
I m referring to our team here, not our results.
There is a lot of space for improvement, esp in the defense.
The defensive lapses is our classic problem and weakest point, the reason we lost the majority of the points in the second part of the season, among with the lack of creativity, due to the lack of a creative midfield who would link our midfield to our attack. Alonso or Aquilani, with the help of Marchisio would be a perfect fit to our problems. There was no need Amauri and Poulsen and we should invest more in our defense, an exp LB like Grosso would be DC's mentor, until the later would be ready.
And a world class CB, or a very reliable young one, to be placed besides Chiellini would upgrade our team a great deal.
That was exactly what we needed, painfully obvious, not only for the Juve fans, but also from some other team's fans who had an occasional chance to watch Juve.
Everyone but our managers saw that and the funny thing is, that this is a recurring problem, rooted since we got relegated to B, i dont understand how they missed that thrice,
we had the resources to fix it...
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
i don't think that the defence is our classic problem ... iirc juves defense was always one of the best 3 in italy

that our defense is the weakest point is obvious but by stating it over and over again you do no good.
we all know that there was enough room for improvement, but we did not sign any more defenders and so be it. it makes no sense mentioning it in every thread. i don't see anyone here who says "we need no defenders, fuck zabaleta!", so there is no need to state the obvious. no one will argue with you on this topic.

if we really need aquilani is on another page (and another thread) but it is also obviously that he is in no way a saviour judging from his latest displays (also with the national team). special performance from him are a while ago, so could he be of any good ? i would go with marchisio for a start ... he did very good ... and don't say it was only artmedia ... aquilani did nothing against austria, he did not even try ... right now he seems to have the tiago syndrome ... no nuts to try change the course of a game.

alonso did play good recently, but for the price we had to pay we would get him any time ... in fact a similar play would always be available for 20 m €, so it was no extraordinary occasion to get him ... i am not mad at the board to save the money for another possible signing (perhaps a defender now or in winter ... time will tell)

every fan could see that we need a defender ... but pointing to a need and satisfying a need are two pair of shoes. i guess no one of us would do better negotiating with players than secco. he may be crap, but he still has the experience on his side (if anyone here said "i would sign bla bla bla). so if it is to difficult to sign a decent defender i'm ok with it ... it's not like udinese offered us zapata or something .. there is no need to overpay just because no players are available
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
i don't think that the defence is our classic problem ... iirc juves defense was always one of the best 3 in italy
Used to be, not anymore, we never had such a bad defense,
thankfully this is not so obvious in Italy last year, because of the leagues lower and lower standards, but this year we are bound to suffer much much more...

that our defense is the weakest point is obvious but by stating it over and over again you do no good.
we all know that there was enough room for improvement, but we did not sign any more defenders and so be it. it makes no sense mentioning it in every thread. i don't see anyone here who says "we need no defenders, fuck zabaleta!", so there is no need to state the obvious. no one will argue with you on this topic.
Since this is our problem, i cant overlook it, there is nothing we can to do about it, but it will be an important factor on the coming season anyway.
Even if i try to ignore it, it wont ignore us...
No matter what we do, we have to face this weakness, every opponent we face,
top team or not, will try to use it to its advantage.
So whats the point ignoring/hiding it?

if we really need aquilani is on another page (and another thread) but it is also obviously that he is in no way a saviour judging from his latest displays (also with the national team). special performance from him are a while ago, so could he be of any good ? i would go with marchisio for a start ... he did very good ... and don't say it was only artmedia ... aquilani did nothing against austria, he did not even try ... right now he seems to have the tiago syndrome ... no nuts to try change the course of a game.
He maybe not be a savior for other team, who already have a similar, or a better player for this role, but he will be for us, not only because of his value, but also
because of the tactical importance this position has, for us. He is seriously over-rated if you ask me and can surely find someone as good and even better at this price, but he is as close as we got, to sign exactly what we need...


alonso did play good recently, but for the price we had to pay we would get him any time ... in fact a similar play would always be available for 20 m €, so it was no extraordinary occasion to get him ... i am not mad at the board to save the money for another possible signing (perhaps a defender now or in winter ... time will tell)
20 mil isnt that bad for him, he was always more impressive than Sissoko, he is more exp and if he is proved as good as Sissoko and multiply that with the needs we have for this certain type of players, then we have an overkill, i still expect him to come at x-mas if he goes cheaper and Aquilani signs a new contract...

every fan could see that we need a defender ... but pointing to a need and satisfying a need are two pair of shoes. i guess no one of us would do better negotiating with players than secco. he may be crap, but he still has the experience on his side (if anyone here said "i would sign bla bla bla). so if it is to difficult to sign a decent defender i'm ok with it ... it's not like udinese offered us zapata or something .. there is no need to overpay just because no players are available
It doesnt matter if any of us could any better than Secco, we dont want to take Secco;s place, we want our team to get rid of noobs like Secco and replace them with some real professional, almost any other pro in the league can do better than Secco, because there cant be any worse than that, Secco has no exp or the brains to learn from his mistakes. He was a quick fix in a crisis time, when he had no other options. Now we had plenty of time to rebuild our team form within.
Our top quality staff was one of the very reasons we were competitive with other world class team, despite we lacked their resources.
With Secco to ruin our chances, we will never come back at that level,
we are bleeding now, when we should be ultra efficient.
That was our only chance to come back as fast as possible, we had a long way to cover from our direct opponents and instead of catching up, they gap between us is growing.
The investments we made this year, give us no hope for a strong hope in the future, neither a realistic chance to challenge for a title in short term.
It is sad that the fans and players have more exp and vision then the noobs who form our BOD...
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
It is sad that the fans and players have more exp and vision then the noobs who form our BOD...
do you seriously think the board thinks we can win anything with this team ?
surely, with a bit of luck there might be the chance, but the board will know that this defense is shit. What do you want them to do ? if it is not in seccos ability to sign a defensive improvement ... should he buy another knezevic ? you know by yourself that they outcry would be loud so they don't buy a defender if they think they would overpay for him.

i agree that zabaleta was a great option for 8m € but who knows how our financial status is. secco and the board will know better if he is affordable or not and do the necessary steps.

just because the board and ranieri do not mourn and cry like little babys or mourinho "buuaaaaaa, i want a striker, buuaaaa i want this player, i want that player" does not mean that our board thinks we got a complete team ... but there is just no point in mourning. crying about how we need this and that wont do any better ... in fact it would make things worse, because if ranieri openly said that he is desperate for player oder playertype x than the price would surely be put a bit higher by the selling club.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
maybe the BOD is waiting till winter to buy a defender (for 2 reasons)

1.) Someone better might become available?
2.) They might want to see how our current defense is?

I know we are all screaming a new defender obviously they don't hear us, so perhaps they are waiting til winter to weigh their options before splashing cash.

The problem is waiting till then because half of our season will be over and by then it might be too late in the league and maybe even crash out of the CL...

Hopefully our defense comes together is remains solid and consistent until then
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,024
But why would they intentionally wait for the winter? We're going to be without Chiellini now and it's obvious we have some weaknesses at the back, so it makes no sense. By that time our defensive frailties would have cost us too many points anyway.
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
So what experience has Secco got? Do you know what he did before being appointed in this role?
he does have more experience negotiating with players than everybody here, so i guess everybody who says "i would sign bla bla bla" should just stfu. No, it's obviously no piece of cake to sign someone ... Secco has only the experience he gathered with us, but that is nontheless more than any fan-transfer-guru here.

it is sensible to wait for defenders to come available (due to not being satisfied with a reservist role at their club) in winter.

most of you say "lets buy zapata, he will be available for 20 m €"... but in fact that is fm08 talk. it is not that easy to say "here you go with twenty milion €" and they will sell any player .... it wont work this way in real life ... so either get a real life or play on fm08
 
Sep 1, 2002
12,745
As long as Zabina is on the bench I believe our defence will supprise many this season and be our strongest point: what worries me is the lack of creativity in midfield. Lots of games drawn that were there for the winning.

Forget the CL, unless we are lucky and are drawn in a weak group: then we might just grow into a winning team. Quarter finals would be a huge success with this team.
 

Marc

Softcore Juventino
Jul 14, 2006
21,649
Lets see, what will you say when we will run out of excuses and our defense will be the reason for our failures, for the 3rd consecutive year...
If I may ask, what failures? Failure to win Serie B or failure to qualify for Champions League? :)
 

Marc

Softcore Juventino
Jul 14, 2006
21,649
Our defense was...
Actually, Milan's defense was worse than ours last season statistically (conceded goals) but you continually neglect this fact. Who is going to solve their problems, Senderos? :rofl:

Funny how you praise Milan's signings but you also forget that they didn't upgrade their defense much and it will be a weak point this season also, I guarantee you that. They will have serious problems which will going to affect their title aspirations.
 
Sep 1, 2002
12,745
Actually, Milan's defense was worse than ours last season statistically (conceded goals) but you continually neglect this fact. Who is going to solve their problems, Senderos? :rofl:

Funny how you praise Milan's signings but you also forget that they didn't upgrade their defense much and it will be a weak point this season also, I guarantee you that. They will have serious problems which will going to affect their title aspirations.
To be fair, Milan had a few problems last season, and Carlo(I wish he was our manager) knows the first line of defence is the offense.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
If I may ask, what failures? Failure to win Serie B or failure to qualify for Champions League? :)
NO, stop puting words to my mouth, i never said that, on the contrary, i was one of the very few claiming that this was our only realistic target when the rest of the ppl and our management where dreaming for titles.
Try to remember the late part of the season, remember how many points we lost and why, remember how many points we won away, remember how small and worthless team raped us, these are the failures i am talking about, without these failures we might or we might not rank up better, but the fact that we had those problems remain!
Our defense was extremely fragile and inefficient, esp when in comparison to the rest of our team. Statistics prove nothing, since we had Buffon and always 2 DMs to support our flawed defense, it doesnt mean that it isnt flawed though.
How our many goals, individual efforts of our forwards doesnt mean we did not have creativity problems.
I dont need statistics to tell me that, i ve seen all but two matches of the entire season and saw those problems with my own eyes.
They were extensively discussed after every match, i cant understand how could you forget them already...
Actually, Milan's defense was worse than ours last season statistically (conceded goals) but you continually neglect this fact. Who is going to solve their problems, Senderos? :rofl:

Funny how you praise Milan's signings but you also forget that they didn't upgrade their defense much and it will be a weak point this season also, I guarantee you that. They will have serious problems which will going to affect their title aspirations.
Indeed they were worse than us, i never said they werent in fact i never claimed they were better than us, i only said that they had a better mercato and they really had a better mercato overall, despite the fact that negleted their defensive problems too, as we did.
They should bring a better keeper and a world class CB, they chose 3 keepers instead, to kep Maldini and Bonera, they got Senderos, Zambro and they are keep looking for another CB.
Nesta is injured but so as Chiellini is, they brought Senderos only for that, what did we brought?
They already had much better wing backs and they still bought Zambro, what did we bought?

I never praised Milan's defense or offense, i only praised their midfield and i said they had a better mercato than us when someone claimed we did better...
 
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