Nicolò Fagioli (34 Viewers)

[Luca]

In Daniel's corner with this kid. With our midfield situation even Max must think it was a mistake not keeping him. Of course doing well in lower league, but sometimes players perform just as well with better talent around them.

Max just trusts experienced players. Why would MDS and Rugs still be here? At least if the kid made a mistake he would have a legitimate excuse.

I don’t think it was a mistake to loan him. Fagioli needed to go out and show what he could do.

It’s all necessary growth. I’d rather have him play a season, start every game and get a bagful of goals and assists in an easier league; growing in confidence compared to playing in the top league, hardly getting minutes, all the pressure and no consistency his role.

If it continues like this, then the club will at least have a very good idea of what type of player they have on their books.

More than anything though, it’s the first real prospect for the club to bleed through some youth talent successfully. It’s been criminally too long since that last happened and if it means he is on loan all season, then so be it.

As @DanielSz said, we could actually have a decent midfield next year and to be honest that’s an amazing thing since that has been the failure of our winning cycle and considering our poor financial state, it’s a pretty smart and quick fix.

 

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[DanielSz]

In Daniel's corner with this kid. With our midfield situation even Max must think it was a mistake not keeping him. Of course doing well in lower league, but sometimes players perform just as well with better talent around them.

Max just trusts experienced players. Why would MDS and Rugs still be here? At least if the kid made a mistake he would have a legitimate excuse.

I think it’s more about nobody wanting them. Same with Ramsey. Allegri ain’t dumb he knows they’re shit lol.

 

[U Picciriddu]

I don’t think it was a mistake to loan him. Fagioli needed to go out and show what he could do.

It’s all necessary growth. I’d rather have him play a season, start every game and get a bagful of goals and assists in an easier league; growing in confidence compared to playing in the top league, hardly getting minutes, all the pressure and no consistency his role.

If it continues like this, then the club will at least have a very good idea of what type of player they have on their books.

More than anything though, it’s the first real prospect for the club to bleed through some youth talent successfully. It’s been criminally too long since that last happened and if it means he is on loan all season, then so be it.

As @DanielSz said, we could actually have a decent midfield next year and to be honest that’s an amazing thing since that has been the failure of our winning cycle and considering our poor financial state, it’s a pretty smart and quick fix.

The for- and against arguments of keeping him both have some good points.

I think we all agree that ~40 Serie B games have more value than 5-10 Serie A games. If he was grinding or bench, he wouldn’t be included in the Italy U21 squad aswel.

But it hurts seeing Ramsey at us and one of our talents somewhere else. I have the same frustrations with the Rovella situation.

I expect Rovella with us next season and Fagioli in Serie A on loan, unless some miracle happens I think that we’ll go for the conservative route, we’ve proven over and over that our modus operandi is exactly that.

 

[Luca]

The for- and against arguments of keeping him both have some good points.

I think we all agree that ~40 Serie B games have more value than 5-10 Serie A games. If he was grinding or bench, he wouldn’t be included in the Italy U21 squad aswel.

But it hurts seeing Ramsey at us and one of our talents somewhere else. I have the same frustrations with the Rovella situation.

I expect Rovella with us next season and Fagioli in Serie A on loan, unless some miracle happens I think that we’ll go for the conservative route, we’ve proven over and over that our modus operandi is exactly that.

I don’t necessarily think the for’s and against’s are balanced though. Yes it hurts to see Ramsey stay but I don’t think they are two competing objectives. If we wanted to get rid of Ramsey, I doubt Fagioli would have been his replacement, this season at least.

The way I think of it is akin to Marchisio who spent a year playing regularly for us in B then went straight on loan. That hurt, but it was entirely necessary in hindsight.

It’s just a matter of cutting teeth and it only can bode well.

 

[DanielSz]

Other Italians at Fagioli‘s age

Loca- sent to Sassuolo from Milan

Verratti- Serie B

Bonucci- Loaned to Serie B from Inter

Bastoni- Loaned to Serie B from Inter

Insigne- Loaned to Serie B from Napoli

Immobile- Loaned to Serie B from Juve

Jorginho- Serie B

Pellegrini- Sold to Sassuolo with a buyback from Roma, essentially a loan

Barrella- Loaned to Serie B from Cagliari

I’ll stop there. There’s clearly a trend in Italian football when it comes to development. Playing time is valued, even if it comes at a lower level/club. I may not agree with it, but its worked out for all these class players, so I understand following the formula. Hope it works out for Fagioli as well and he makes his way back next season.

 

[Tak!]

Understandable, but as you imply. It does leave me a bit envious looking at Germany with an average age of fetus. There are more young talents on lower tier teams in Serie A, which is promising. Heck, even we have some young ones but they are all in some way proven. Once we are up and running again, I'd like us to hand out minutes to unproven talents too. They don't need to be starters but if we're up 3-0 or something, put one on. Given our poor start it might not happen this year but I'd still like us to consider the option. It's not like putting on a young player (that you believe in) will completely change the game on his own. Neither positively or negatively. Unless he's a GK. CBs can form a three man defense or be used as a full back. Just to get the experience of senior football. All I am saying is that the formula isn't bad but it can be complemented and doesn't suit everyone. So many players waste a year going away and without really learning anything.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Understandable, but as you imply. It does leave me a bit envious looking at Germany with an average age of fetus. There are more young talents on lower tier teams in Serie A, which is promising. Heck, even we have some young ones but they are all in some way proven. Once we are up and running again, I'd like us to hand out minutes to unproven talents too. They don't need to be starters but if we're up 3-0 or something, put one on. Given our poor start it might not happen this year but I'd still like us to consider the option. It's not like putting on a young player (that you believe in) will completely change the game on his own. Neither positively or negatively. Unless he's a GK. CBs can form a three man defense or be used as a full back. Just to get the experience of senior football. All I am saying is that the formula isn't bad but it can be complemented and doesn't suit everyone. So many players waste a year going away and without really learning anything.

Then you wonder why the German NT have been shit for some years

 

[DanielSz]

Then you wonder why the German NT have been shit for some years

Low had an older squad before he retired. Flick plays all the young guys and theyre dominating again, albeit small sample. Anyway this whole development debate isn’t that black and white, there’s good arguments for both. But it’s clear how they prefer to do it in Italy.

 

[Knowah]

I think this year in Serie B for Fagioli makes a lot of sense, even with our midfield struggles, and looking at next year probably makes sense then too. The reason being: midfield is too full of average players without expiring contracts. If we can move Ramsey or Rabiot/Bentancur then surely we should keep Fagioli.

I understand the idea of "40 games in Serie B is better than 5-10 in Serie A" but I think this isn't always a true view of the facts. With how Allegri sets up our team and how most teams are set up these days along with 5 subs being allowed 5-6 midfielders will see regular use across Serie A, Coppa, and Champions League. I think there is a lot of value in a player learning the winning mentality and being in the locker room with Chiellini and others versus beating on Serie B competition. At some point, a player needs to come to the squad and fight and prove he can perform on this level. And that time shouldn't be after we've loaned him out to 2-3 different sides, 2-3 different managers, 2-3 different stadiums, 2-3 different levels of competition over 2-3 straight seasons. This lack of consistency has to have a downside! Also, I am saying this for players with high potential like Rovella, Fagioli, Dragusin.

The second point I would make would be finances. We have clearly seen the issue with having 5-6 midfielders all making high wages and how an entire squad making high wages constricts the club. Juventus must adopt the mentality that the outside your top 13-15 players on the squad the rest must be cheaper, higher potential players on very low wages. Not doing this was the mistake we've made up to this point. I would rather Fagioli on our bench getting 15-20 appearances (more realistic than saying 5-10 imo) and on very low wages versus Ramsey or Arthur. This is one of the reasons I think Juve has been hesistant to move McKennie even with the boneheaded things he has done. His performances (while very average at times) are worth the cheap wages. He probably won't start against Chelsea in Champions League and he shouldn't (Fagioli or McKennie) but he can very well start against the lower half of Serie A if you need to rest a midfielder and can come on in the 65-70th minute and prove something against Serie A opponents. This must become the mentality going forwards for better financial health and also you never know. A high potential youngster might show something in those 15-20 appearances and become a regular starter.

 

[Nedved96]

Italy has nothing to envy from Germany, just as successful and have a terrific head-to-head record against them.

 

[DanielSz]

Youngest player on this list of top rated players in serie B so far this season.

 

[JuveJay]

Mehdi Leris, what a player @Mark

 

[U Picciriddu]

Amazing game. Seems to have improved his stamina and strength that were his weaknesses in our Primavera in my opinion. I’m convinced that he could do even better in terms of passing and dribbling, even tho he had a very decent game judging by this video. His first touch is amazing.

 

[s4tch]

subbed in and scored within a minute

once again highlights of a cremonese match is a must watch

 

[DAiDEViL]

Seems to be doing well for them, or is it only tuz making me hope?

 

[juve123]

Seems to be doing well for them, or is it only tuz making me hope?

Still would prefer Rovella to be brought back ahead of fagioli

 

[U Picciriddu]

Start from 1:51, great goal! Amazing dribble.

 

[DanielSz]

He’s the best mid in serie B. What I like about him is he can play multiple positions; regista, trequartista, mezzala. Today he was essentially the latter. The progress he and Rovella have made this season is really exciting.

 

[Siamak]

Nicolò Fagioli came on as a sub in the second half & scored a goal after a minute. Cremonese are currently playing with Benevento in the Serie B. 1-1 after 50 mins

 

[X Æ A-12]

Nicolò Fagioli came on as a sub in the second half & scored a goal after a minute. Cremonese are currently playing with Benevento in the Serie B. 1-1 after 50 mins

He doesn't start for them?