Okay, take away those "EPO glory days" and what do we have? We still have the most successful club in Italy, dipshit.
Sheesh, talk about glory hunters.
Sheesh, talk about glory hunters.
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Nick Against the World (60 Viewers)
- Thread starter IncuboRossonero
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Anybody want to hear a real recording from Chelsea's locker room?
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Anybody want to hear a real recording from Chelsea's locker room?
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
Anybody want to hear a real recording from Chelsea's locker room?
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
:LOL: That is fabulous
So? Scirea was in the team that won the WC, alright. A team that after the first round looked set for an early demise, only to wake up when we least expected it and finish with a fantastic run. A team where indeed 6/7 players in the starting 11 came from Juve, and which yet was definitely less solid than our 1990 one captained by none other than Baresi (that same Baresi who was our best player in the 1994 final despite just retrurning from injury)
Firstly, the best teams don't always win, simple as. (actually we were even more beautiful and consistent in 1978 but lost due to bad luck and Zoff's blunders in the semis)
Secondly : yes, Scirea played an essential role in that otherwise quality defensive line (Bergomi, Collovati, Gentile, Cabrini - as well as the young Baresi who didn't play a game though - weren't exactly amateurs either). But the key players were Conti (who unsurprisingly was named best player of the tournament) and of course Rossi who tranformed everything he touched into gold.
And again, that doesn't mean that being in that team makes one the best ever. Van Basten has never won the WC either. Klinsmann has : but which of the two is considered the greater attacker?
Scirea was a magnificent defender and a gentleman of a player, but I think Baresi had just that extra inch of "meanness" that made him better (not the Killerazzi sort of meanness, of course : the meanness of the heroes).
Pado,
The 1977-1985 Juventus wrote the history of European football. By winning the Uefa in 77 it gave us (Italy) some honour back, after several seasons of appalling European results. It made Juventus the first team in history to lift all the three cups (CL, Uefa, Cup Winners' Cup), and that, my dear gobbi, is indeed an incredible achievement.
However the Milan of the 1989-1995 era (and more particularly 89-90) is arguably the strongest team in Europe since Di Stefano's Real. No one since then has been able to asphyxiate its opponents like they did (Berlusca must have memory lapses when he says this Milan is even better, or maybe he's just trying to sell shit to the tourists), and only Cruyff's Ajax used to do it on that level before that.
So I think that while Juventus were crucial in putting Italian football back on the map, Milan showed the world that Italian teams can do more than defend, and that when they start attacking you'd better pray not to be facing them.
Trap's Juve was one of the strongest teams in Europe at the time, with the likes of Liverpool and the other usual suspects. Sacchi's Milan was the team tha disintegrated anyone and anything on its way, be it Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or Servette Genève. No difference. Go watch the 1989 Milan-Real Madrid semi or the final against Steaua and tell me if you ever saw something similar before or since. You'd be lying if you do.
Nick,
As I've written somewhere else, I still place Franz ahead of Paolo. First for reasons that may look trivial : the fact that Maldini looks like a film actor while Baresi has a "people's face". The fact that Maldini could rely on a dad who was a legend in the game while Baresi was an orphan at a young age.
But also because Baresi stayed with us in the shameful years of the serie B despite having a WC title in his bag and half the serie A courting him (unlike Judas Collovati). That is arguably the best proof of love for your colours you can show.
Finally and foremost, I prefer Baresi because he was a true, natural leader. The man became captain when he wasn't even 20 yet, and just after the retirement of a certain Gianni Rivera. That is really something, and it took Maldini 10 years to be able to emulate it.
If you remember the 1990-1996 Maldini, he was considered as the best left-back around at the time, but many of us still doubted whether he could one day fit into Baresi's shoes. He seemed to still lack that extra element that would make him the new leader.
He more than proved that he actually did have what it takes after the latter's retirement, but by then he was already 28. Would he have been able to do this in 1988? The answer is a definite no.
Firstly, the best teams don't always win, simple as. (actually we were even more beautiful and consistent in 1978 but lost due to bad luck and Zoff's blunders in the semis)
Secondly : yes, Scirea played an essential role in that otherwise quality defensive line (Bergomi, Collovati, Gentile, Cabrini - as well as the young Baresi who didn't play a game though - weren't exactly amateurs either). But the key players were Conti (who unsurprisingly was named best player of the tournament) and of course Rossi who tranformed everything he touched into gold.
And again, that doesn't mean that being in that team makes one the best ever. Van Basten has never won the WC either. Klinsmann has : but which of the two is considered the greater attacker?
Scirea was a magnificent defender and a gentleman of a player, but I think Baresi had just that extra inch of "meanness" that made him better (not the Killerazzi sort of meanness, of course : the meanness of the heroes).
Pado,
The 1977-1985 Juventus wrote the history of European football. By winning the Uefa in 77 it gave us (Italy) some honour back, after several seasons of appalling European results. It made Juventus the first team in history to lift all the three cups (CL, Uefa, Cup Winners' Cup), and that, my dear gobbi, is indeed an incredible achievement.
However the Milan of the 1989-1995 era (and more particularly 89-90) is arguably the strongest team in Europe since Di Stefano's Real. No one since then has been able to asphyxiate its opponents like they did (Berlusca must have memory lapses when he says this Milan is even better, or maybe he's just trying to sell shit to the tourists), and only Cruyff's Ajax used to do it on that level before that.
So I think that while Juventus were crucial in putting Italian football back on the map, Milan showed the world that Italian teams can do more than defend, and that when they start attacking you'd better pray not to be facing them.
Trap's Juve was one of the strongest teams in Europe at the time, with the likes of Liverpool and the other usual suspects. Sacchi's Milan was the team tha disintegrated anyone and anything on its way, be it Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or Servette Genève. No difference. Go watch the 1989 Milan-Real Madrid semi or the final against Steaua and tell me if you ever saw something similar before or since. You'd be lying if you do.
Nick,
As I've written somewhere else, I still place Franz ahead of Paolo. First for reasons that may look trivial : the fact that Maldini looks like a film actor while Baresi has a "people's face". The fact that Maldini could rely on a dad who was a legend in the game while Baresi was an orphan at a young age.
But also because Baresi stayed with us in the shameful years of the serie B despite having a WC title in his bag and half the serie A courting him (unlike Judas Collovati). That is arguably the best proof of love for your colours you can show.
Finally and foremost, I prefer Baresi because he was a true, natural leader. The man became captain when he wasn't even 20 yet, and just after the retirement of a certain Gianni Rivera. That is really something, and it took Maldini 10 years to be able to emulate it.
If you remember the 1990-1996 Maldini, he was considered as the best left-back around at the time, but many of us still doubted whether he could one day fit into Baresi's shoes. He seemed to still lack that extra element that would make him the new leader.
He more than proved that he actually did have what it takes after the latter's retirement, but by then he was already 28. Would he have been able to do this in 1988? The answer is a definite no.
Kaiser Franco
I do agree that Baresi is the second best defender of all times. But he isn't as good as Scirea. Even if Italy in the 90 and 94 was better then the one in 82 the fact still remains that one won the WC and the other didn't. And I also doubt very much that the Italy of the early ninetees was so strong because of Baresi only. Baresi was just souronded by better players then Scirea in 82. I also sincirlly doubt that the Azzurri would be any weaker with Scirea playing instead of Baresi.
Scirea is also a true gentleman, he was never suspended because of cards. And is also the player that spoke on the microphone in Heysel to try and calm everybody down
I do agree that Baresi is the second best defender of all times. But he isn't as good as Scirea. Even if Italy in the 90 and 94 was better then the one in 82 the fact still remains that one won the WC and the other didn't. And I also doubt very much that the Italy of the early ninetees was so strong because of Baresi only. Baresi was just souronded by better players then Scirea in 82. I also sincirlly doubt that the Azzurri would be any weaker with Scirea playing instead of Baresi.
Scirea is also a true gentleman, he was never suspended because of cards. And is also the player that spoke on the microphone in Heysel to try and calm everybody down
Basically, it all comes down to this :
Scirea was an amazing defender who accepted to be beaten 1 time out of 100 if that meant he would keep his disciplinary record clean.
Baresi was an amazing defender who if needed would foul you the 100th time because "to be beaten" was not part of his vocabulary.
Btw, my mistake in the previous post : Bergomi actually captained Italy in 1990, not Baresi, who remained the soul of that bunker defence though.
Scirea was an amazing defender who accepted to be beaten 1 time out of 100 if that meant he would keep his disciplinary record clean.
Baresi was an amazing defender who if needed would foul you the 100th time because "to be beaten" was not part of his vocabulary.
Btw, my mistake in the previous post : Bergomi actually captained Italy in 1990, not Baresi, who remained the soul of that bunker defence though.
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Anybody want to hear a real recording from Chelsea's locker room?
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
Anybody want to hear a real recording from Chelsea's locker room?
http://www.radioireland.ie/audio/giftjose.wma
:fool:
That is hilarious.
"Rooney, 35 and one half million! I'll do it, you want me press buy???"
:LOL:
OP
No...but neither has Scirea scored the winning goal...plus, Andy I expected more from you..your measuring a defender's success because he scored a goal?? FFS??
Secondly, by your rationale most Brazilian defenders are better than Maldini because they lifted the WOrld Cup...many all time greats never lifted the World Cup...you know that
others also did not play in days of video replay...more importantly, FOKIN irrelevant in this discussion
you have disappointed me ohh little jedi
Secondly, by your rationale most Brazilian defenders are better than Maldini because they lifted the WOrld Cup...many all time greats never lifted the World Cup...you know that
others also did not play in days of video replay...more importantly, FOKIN irrelevant in this discussion
you have disappointed me ohh little jedi
OP
++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Okay, take away those "EPO glory days" and what do we have? We still have the most successful club in Italy, dipshit.
Sheesh, talk about glory hunters.
Okay, take away those "EPO glory days" and what do we have? We still have the most successful club in Italy, dipshit.
Sheesh, talk about glory hunters.
pathetic...to say the least
Episodes...
Had Italy not qualified for the second round by a mere stroke of luck in 82, we would still be chasing our third star to this day and Scirea would only be remembered as the second greatest Italian libero who could never live up to expectations in a major tournament. The Scirea of WC 86 wasn't much different from Korea 2002's Maldini, but unlike the latter he never resurrected.
Well he died 3 years later as a matter of fact, but you got my point.
Bad coincidence that was.
Had Italy not qualified for the second round by a mere stroke of luck in 82, we would still be chasing our third star to this day and Scirea would only be remembered as the second greatest Italian libero who could never live up to expectations in a major tournament. The Scirea of WC 86 wasn't much different from Korea 2002's Maldini, but unlike the latter he never resurrected.
Well he died 3 years later as a matter of fact, but you got my point.
Bad coincidence that was.
Of course I know that, and I also know that ranking defenders in terms of goals scored is wrong as well. However, in the case of Scirea, he set up the winning goal in the Final and helped lead Italy to their first World Cup since WWII...that must count for something. Unforunately Maldini has never been able to lift the World Cup...does that make him any less of a legend? No. Is Scirea any more of a legend because he set up the winning goal in the Final and actually lifted the Cup? I would have to say YES. Unlike Brazil, Italy has to cherish their victories.
Now I am not able to compare the skills of both players because I have not watched much footage of Scirea on the football pitch. We all know Maldini is the greatest defender this world has seen since Baresi.
I think keeping clean of all disciplinary action on a football pitch is an amazing acheivement, especially for a defender. If you do not concur, well I wouldn't be surprised.
Now I am not able to compare the skills of both players because I have not watched much footage of Scirea on the football pitch. We all know Maldini is the greatest defender this world has seen since Baresi.
I think keeping clean of all disciplinary action on a football pitch is an amazing acheivement, especially for a defender. If you do not concur, well I wouldn't be surprised.