Nick Against the World (86 Viewers)

[Martin]

Oh how it amuses me to see Fli rule this forum with an iron fist, just like Tom did. :biggrin:

Erik: it's water closet

 

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[Azzurri7]

Fli, how does it Feel to be a mod for 2 or 3weeks now??? share your feelings with your fans.

 

[flieeeekke]

i feel sort of hypocrite though

 

[Martin]

i feel sort of hypocrite though

oh there's no doubt you're a total sellout :biggrin:

 

[Vinman]

Erm, how about that vein on your neck? Did it stop bulging already ? Or is a jog on the threadmill in order ?

I have no idea what your sig is on xtra time, as I was specifically alluding to one you had here months ago and to how your laughing at Gino's attempts was the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyhoooooo so I am a commie now. This despite the fact that never - not once - have I voted for Italy's 2 and a half Communist parties (yes, there's almost three of them, waaaa waaaa). This despite the fact that in this very thread I once took the defence of Giulio Andreotti (no, he's not the answer to the out of depth Juve midfield, trust me).

Well, as a born again commie I suppose it is my duty to explain to you what you are implying when you equate the Italian communists to a regime that has had half a million of its citizens killed and a country on its knees by following a monotesticled Teutonic lieutenant into the war.

By implying that, you are saying that the people responsible for some of the most remarkable social changes in Italy's post WW 2 era in the face of the middle-aged mindset pervading the country at the time, are no better than the fascists.

You are saying that the party that thanks to 40 years of "buongoverno", or good governance, made Umbria, Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna some of the regions with the best living standards in Italy (and in Emilia's case, Europe), is no better than the fascists.

You are saying that the first (and biggest) Communist party in the West to have the courage and the intellectual honesty to severe its ties with Soviet Russia, long before the French Communist party, is no better than the fascists.

You are saying that those co-villagers of my grandfather, who when he returned from captivity in Africa had been executed by the nazi-facists for resisting and creating the dissident Repubblica dell'Ossola, are no better than the fascists.


That's pretty much what you are saying I guess. Can you also say manichean ?


Nick,

Just when I expected you to come down on me a la Vinnie Gattuso you produce an insightful post. I guess my provocation triggered a similar reaction in you as it did in me when I saw you defend Berlusca so unconditionally on X-tra time and could not refrain from jumping in.

Yes, I wondered why a siciliano "doc" would constantly misspell one of Sicily's most popular pastries (and imo overshadowing many other delicacies coming from that land on the international scene). That the term cannoli is contracted into canoli abroad comes as a surprise to me. I'll take your word on it and I suppose I look like a tit now.

Obviously I haven't endured discrimination on the level you are describing it, but you forget that, though I wasn't exactly dropped off the boat at Ellis Island, I too am an emigrant, and as such would be more sensitive to that subject than others. I received prejudicial treatment when I lived in Switzerland, and had to deal with one of the most hermetic societies I have come accross so far. For some Swiss, an Italian in their country is at best dishonest and at worst an opportunistic "frontalier", i.e. one of those guys crossing the border to do the jobs no one wants to do anymore, and then having the guts to spend the money back home.

I experienced it when I made my internship at the European Commission here in Brussels, noting how an Italian opening his mouth at the Parliamant resulted into the Germans and Brits laughing up their sleeve. It may sound trivial, and frankly the current Italian political class deserves little more given its utter cafoneria - to use a word you are so fond of - but for me to see the representatives of a country as politically aware as Italy not being given the benefit of the doubt hurts me. But apart from the usual clichés anyone can nurture towards any race, I don't indeed experience it on a daily basis where I am now, also because, unlike what a man of the world now turned mod (bwah!) has been claiming repeatedly, the Belgian doesn't think he's better than you. Quite the contrary in fact. Which brings me to wonder if this isn't actually a phenomenon typical of America or at least the Anglo-saxon world, triggered by some instinctive waspish attitude claiming supremacy over the great unwashed. I mean, the stories you're speaking of have been unheard of in Europe for at least a generation. I haven't experienced them myself in the year I spent in America, but again it was a different context altogether (oh yeah I actually did as a "white pig" in a black neighborhood, but this story is for another day). In a perfect world, one shouldn't even have to defend his roots in the first place, but oh well. What I still don't get though is why, if you're so preoccupied with preserving the image of Italian Americans, why you would claim to have ties with the local Zio Binnu..

I can only disagree with your generalisation about Northern Italians considering expats as "terroni bis". Well, chances are that some of those who have just given Berlusca a majority in all Northern regions think so now, given that the massive pro-Prodi vote of the Italians abroad proved to be the decisive factor in the Left's puny victory at the Senate. Funny how many Forza Italia yesmen have been bitching about that in the past weeks, seemingly implying that those votes should count for less (the forzisti making a distinction between serie A and serie B Italians? Well I never..). And funny how Sua Emittenza shot himself in the foot, as it was his own government that passed a law allowing this a few years back, no doubt hoping to grab a few more votes. But I digress. Those damn toscanacci will poke fun at anyone, since allegedly they speak Dante's Italian, and while they will see you as a Southern prole they will consider me as a Northern barbarian (Tuscany hardly qualifies as "the North"..). Generally all in good fun though. One thing you will not be able to suspect this pompous Northerner of though, is of being anti-South. Not just because I come from the heartland of Lega Nord and had to witness this small poujadist/qualunquista/man-in-the-streetist movement grow into the second biggest "centre"-right party in the North. And not only for the fact that I like to spend my holidays in Sardegna, Puglia, Calabria and your own Sicily. But because as a Northener I feel guilty that we owe quite a bit of our priviledged situation to the historical plundering of the South, only to leave them to their own fate when we did not need them anymore and then trying to repair some of the damage through feel-good "casse del Mezzogiorno" and the likes. Because I fully sympathize with those Southern immigrants to the North who get called "marocchini" and are asked when the Vesuvius will wash their dirt off with fire. Because I shit on the tribalistic gung-ho culture of self-proclaimed and self-deluded "padani" and wish I could have a bit of Southern spensieratezza inside me, because I like to side with the underdog and because of a thousand other reasons. Are there some Southern traits I dont like ? Hell yes, just as there are some Northern ones I can't stand. Enough PC bollocks (no Vinman, it doesn't stand for Partito Comunista) : the North and the South differ on many things. They're practically different people and countries. But I for one think that's the beauty of it. This is why, as much as I feel sorry that you had to confront said discrimination while growing up, and while I admit I hadn't taken it into account due to my own ignorance on the subject (or at least on the extent of it) I don't think I owe you an apology. I am not the one who did that to you and never would. I was only reacting within the context of this forum, so you are barking at the wrong tree. If anything, I am a bit of a Northern terrone myself, as my recently deceased mother came from a very modest family of farmers near Turin (the town of Santena to be precise : I understand you are in Turin atm so if you're interested, visit the region : it's kind of like Bertolucci's Novecento all over again). On an added note, the following clip made me piss from laughter http://www.iene.mediaset.it/personaggio/biografia_pif.shtml (click on "Milano-Palermo solo andata").

So to sum it up, I wasn't nitpicking on anyone for typing in Italian. Actually I'd rather encourage it, and I even helped you with a legal text you did not understand once. But when ppl mock this poor guy for his Italian and whatever other futile reason, I think it's only fair to give them a taste of their own medicine. If "il mio bello Italia" must be considered as comedy material, it's only fair that "I am insane more or less Juve" should be too. Regardless, while I am not aware of all the episodes of the Gino saga, what I can gather from it is this : he once said, in the midst of a conversation, that "if I want to smoke weed and my dad says no I'll punch him in the face". And people are throwing this into his face again and again and again. I've seen Virgin slag the crap out of Gino on X-tra time and somehow justifying the filthiness just because the latter had said that line at some point in the past. Vile, hypocritical and above all ignorant. Ad nauseam rubbing in is such a recurrent tactics on these boards : you used it yourself against Zlatan as regards his "leaving backs". With one glaring difference tho : Zlatan is more than capable to defend himself, while Gino is not (I honestly feel sorry for him). Did it occur to the the anti-Gino brigade that perhaps he just meant "I like to get wasted so much that not even my dad can prevent me from doing it" in a joking way? Do they realize that his English is quite limited, that he can only use the words he knows and as such he is bound to find himself entangled into quid pro quos? How about coming out of their narrow-minded vision of the world for one second, and acknowledge Gino's efforts to communicate in THEIR language and give him a helping hand instead of pushing him further into the abyss? Too high an expectation I am afraid.

you really got your english dictionary out for this post, and I commend you

I would really like to know where I ever made fun of Gino for his "attempt" at Italian

I pick on him for the "punch my father in the face" business, and some of the stupid things he says regarding my team

like I said before, my Italian skills are lacking, as I've told a story here in the past (that you may have missed) about my attempt at speaking Italian to a woman on a traffic stop, and when she heard just how poor my Italian was (or just the little Sicilian dialect that I know), that she immediately started speaking English to me. My grandparents spoke some basic Italian to me, but for the most part they wanted to practice their English (remember , my parents were both born in the USA)

As far as this fascist crap, my uncle fought against the Germans in France during WW2, so I have no love lost for them. I do not like the left wing Livorno fans, Lucarelli, or any of the Che Guevara worshipping that goes on there, with all their Cuban flags and bullshit. I do not know as much about European politics as you do, obviously, but I know what went on in this side of the world with Guevara and all that he was about. I also have Cuban relatives (by marriage), and have been told of all the ills that he and Castro caused Cuba, and how they had to escape Cuba.

You talk about human rights, well do you have any idea how many ppl were persecuted in Cuba, North Korea, China, Vietnam, Laos, the old Soviet Union, etc ??

And what do all these "great" countries have in common ??

They would NEVER let their people have a say in anything, they violate human rights, and they are not permitted to leave (unless they escape...but China may be loosening up a bit)

now, let me get to my treadmill

 

[swag]

Oh how it amuses me to see Fli rule this forum with an iron fist, just like Tom did. :biggrin:

Erik: it's water closet

Score points for Fli.

Nah, call it a sellout. I think Fli is doing his thing, taking this mod business to heart. Well done.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Erm, how about that vein on your neck? Did it stop bulging already ? Or is a jog on the threadmill in order ?

I have no idea what your sig is on xtra time, as I was specifically alluding to one you had here months ago and to how your laughing at Gino's attempts was the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyhoooooo so I am a commie now. This despite the fact that never - not once - have I voted for Italy's 2 and a half Communist parties (yes, there's almost three of them, waaaa waaaa). This despite the fact that in this very thread I once took the defence of Giulio Andreotti (no, he's not the answer to the out of depth Juve midfield, trust me).

Well, as a born again commie I suppose it is my duty to explain to you what you are implying when you equate the Italian communists to a regime that has had half a million of its citizens killed and a country on its knees by following a monotesticled Teutonic lieutenant into the war.

By implying that, you are saying that the people responsible for some of the most remarkable social changes in Italy's post WW 2 era in the face of the middle-aged mindset pervading the country at the time, are no better than the fascists.

You are saying that the party that thanks to 40 years of "buongoverno", or good governance, made Umbria, Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna some of the regions with the best living standards in Italy (and in Emilia's case, Europe), is no better than the fascists.

You are saying that the first (and biggest) Communist party in the West to have the courage and the intellectual honesty to severe its ties with Soviet Russia, long before the French Communist party, is no better than the fascists.

You are saying that those co-villagers of my grandfather, who when he returned from captivity in Africa had been executed by the nazi-facists for resisting and creating the dissident Repubblica dell'Ossola, are no better than the fascists.


That's pretty much what you are saying I guess. Can you also say manichean ?

Thanks for all the insight, I actually had mentioned it in the past. The post WW2 communist electoral victory in Italy was only thwarted by the CIA (which actually was the agency's first political manipulation operation). Though I obviously dont agree with your marxist(are you?) views, I can definitely appreciate the ever so rare educated vote.

 

[swag]

Whilst we're on the subject of football *cough*, I thought I'd mention I've spent most of the weekend thinking of a line-up for our (the Dutch) national team that I could see win our WC group and have been unable to do so, although I had some interesting ideas. I shall share them later when I have the time/am bored.

PS. Somebody in this thread should be able to answer this question for me (Respaul maybe): although the abbreviation WC (water cabinet [or was it closet]), short for toilet, is officially of English nature and has been adopted by several non-English speaking cultures in Western Europe - I've never heard anyone use "WC" in spoken English. Is it wrong? Does it have an ugly ring to it? Or is it just un-used? It's been puzzling me for a few days now, amazing what the human mind will stumble over...

Finally -- an important topic that's a matter of debate here.

I've never heard anyone say "WC" in proper conversation. Other forms of slang seem to be the norm in my experience in England and in places like the U.S., Australia, and NZ. "WC" seems to be a print-only, international term, IMO.

 

[swag]

Thanks for all the insight, I actually had mentioned it in the past. The post WW2 communist electoral victory in Italy was only thwarted by the CIA (which actually was the agency's first political manipulation operation). Though I obviously dont agree with your marxist(are you?) views, I can definitely appreciate the ever so rare educated vote.

The Culinary Institute of America?? :confused2

 

[Martin]

I've never heard anyone say "WC" in proper conversation. Other forms of slang seem to be the norm in my experience in England and in places like the U.S., Australia, and NZ. "WC" seems to be a print-only, international term, IMO.

The real question ought to be why is the English speaking world so afraid of saying "WC"? What have you to hide?

 

[Enron]

you two are like beavis and butthead...

guess its pretty clear who sergio ment when he said why he isnt returning as often..

Oh go soap it. And while youre out put on a polyester suit and jog on. Fuckface.

 

[Slagathor]

Communist food as a threat to global culinary diversity?

Finally -- an important topic that's a matter of debate here.

I've never heard anyone say "WC" in proper conversation. Other forms of slang seem to be the norm in my experience in England and in places like the U.S., Australia, and NZ. "WC" seems to be a print-only, international term, IMO.

Ah, excellent. Thanks. I thought I could try and slip it in a conversation with some of my English friends and see how they'd react but they already have enough stuff to laugh at me over...

 

[Slagathor]

The real question ought to be why is the English speaking world so afraid of saying "WC"? What have you to hide?

Probably just the hazzard of saying "doubleyousee". In Dutch it's easy, if English used our pronunciation rules, the alphabet as U, V, W would be pronounced as You, Vee, Wee.

Personally I think "WeeCee" would be a great way to pronounce it

 

[Martin]

ah, trust us Europeans to fix English

 

[Respaul]

ah, trust us Europeans to fix English

You mean 'Bastardise' it...

 

[swag]

Probably just the hazzard of saying "doubleyousee". In Dutch it's easy, the alphabet is U, V, W which in English would be You, Vee, Wee. Personally I think "WeeCee" would be a great way to pronounce it

That would be my guess. "WC" would be short in print form, like "OK", and can be instantly recognizable -- even to people unfamiliar with the Latin alphabet. But you wouldn't say it, since "loo" is so much easier (for example).

Or like URLs in Italian... instead of "www" (each a "doppia vu") they say "vu-vu-vu" (literally "vvv"). A lot less hassle.

 

[Slagathor]

No, we definitely mean 'fix'.

 

[Martin]

You mean 'Bastardise' it...

now that's not nice..

 

[Respaul]

now that's not nice..

nor is the need to mess around with someone elses language... Especially when said person is in one breath moaning about correct grammar in said language,but with the next is hailing the virtues of changing said language... Uhmmm ... the smell of hypocrisy

 

[Enron]

I would feel stupid if I called the World Cup, WC. It just seems too chatroomish to me.