Nick Against the World (80 Viewers)

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Ah fvck Vinni I didn't know that. :groan:

Sorry, Andy...

I thought GolTV would pull a move like this, so I taped Rai from 9-12 noon


It was only about 2-3 minutes of footage, I didnt get to see the whole thing either

 

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[Bjerknes]

That's quite alright Vinni.

At least Gol TV showed a bit of the celebrations during the Milan match in their little box on the righthand corner. :groan:

 

[gray]

omg these Gol TV commentators are awful. I just saw the bit where they mistake Pessotto for Birindelli for a full half hour, even throwing in comments like "that was a poor cross by Birindelli, and that's the reason Pessotto usually starts instead of him" :groan:

then they say "Trezeguet is the best assist man of the three (DP, Zlatan, Trez). Del Piero and Zlatan are more strikers than center-forwards."...

isn't it the other way around? :undecide:

Also, it's not Jewventus vs. Calgary :irritate:, and the 43rd minute is NOT two minutes from time

 

[baggio]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

no way they or anyone can predict the shoot-out so there strategy of playing for the shoot-out was simply because they knew they could not put it away during the game.
What they needed to do was win...during regular time which they could not..because as I said 'those 8 minutes' were all they had...
they were not defensive in the first half..and not in the second half...they got into defensive mode when it was clear they could not come close to a goal.





You also fail to consider that at the time Milan was the only team in Europe fighting for a league cup and the CL Title....they were in a long drawn out battle for both...which meant playing 10 games in a month. Losing one game considering all this is NOTHING....
Winning 6 out of 7 matches in the CL is quite a high standard...higher than anyone else involved. As a result, I fail to see how they don't deserve to be in the final and PSV does based on one game.





Fine..lucky....lucky because after winning 6 games in CL and not conceding a goal and after catching up to Juve with an 8 point deficit and later a 3 point deficit they lost one game...

I don't see it...sorry Baggio
In my opinion no team was an consistent and in form as Milan this season....unfortunately like many teams in the past they will have nothing to show for it..so be it
stranger things have happened...
i.e. defenders like Sammer have won a Ballon D'Or and Maldini has not....

From the way i saw it, i personally felt, Liverpool were a lot more open in the first half, but closed up a lot more in the second, once the third goal was in the bag. That obviously stemmed from the realisation, that they were aware of their attacking prowess or the lack of it. They pretty much knew, they wouldnt be able to recover had they been in the chase again. I think the reason they played for penalties, because as you said it was a gamble, but one, i think they seemed aware of, because they probably realised Milan wouldnt stop attacking, and if it went to penalties, they'd have just as good a chance to win as Milan.





Infact, it was Milan's impressive run in both the Serie A and Champions League that made it all the more remarkabale that they almost threw it all away in the game that mattered most at that point of time. Especially considering the impressive depth of the squad.




I think we need to look at the picture in its entirety.

Yep, true they did catch up with Juve, but nobody is going to remember that 8 point deficit and how Milan caught up. What good is it? They still dint win the scudetto after doing so, and the match against Juve, the one that mattered most. In the CL, they won 6 games in a row, but then they undid themselves in the last two games of that cup, and I think on both counts credit goes to the opposition, and also to the fact that Milan have only themselves to blame.

Having said that, I think Milan have had a good season, and yes, at times they have been lucky. But that doesnt take away from the fact that they deserved to be in the final, or discount their consistency because i think everybody needs a little bit of luck. And if the results had been the other way around, i'm pretty sure I would have said the same things for Milan as i did for Liverpool.

 

[JCK]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
We still finished with a 7 point lead.

And the most goals scored (67) and least goals conceded (27).

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

Did you watch the game?
Because apart from the 7 minutes of three goals Liverpool did little else...in fact, can you name ONE save Dida made that night?
In three shots they scored...afterwards they allowed Milan to ROMP through and try every which way to put it away allowing Tomasson, Shevchenko and Kaka to be inches from goal.
The best player in Europe not scoring on two back to back attempts is unexplicable..hence, FOOTBALL GODS.
Don't take it LITERAL there buddy.

I am sorry I do not accept that at all, Milan were as bad in the second half as Liverpool were clueless in the first

But the fact still remains that in a final you cannot throw away a 3-0 lead and especially not to a very average Liverpool side.
Well I have read how overrated the Epl is and all sorts of nonsense so for that reason i was not too upset that Milan lost , as i surely would have been if not for the crap i read on here.
If you did not know it before then you do now, the teams in Epl might not be as sophisticated or as technical as their serieA counterparts but they give you everything and never known when they are beaten unlike Italinas in general who always tend to play for either 45 minutes or 60 minutes re Italy vs Sweden and then do nothing for the rest of the game

In the second half Milna did absolutely nothing until the extra time period, but by then the gods had decreed Liverpool will win it

I do feel very much for Sheva, as yes Crespo played well in the final but surely he is not a partner for Sheva, Tomasson has jjust gone to pieces, why Ancellotti insists all the time on keeping Seedorf on the field when it was obvious that Serginho will hurt Liverpool more from that position. Kaka was brilliant in the first half but non existent after wards

But perhaps the most telling thing is that Stam has taken away form Milan with his presence as no way should Maldini be playing at left back at his age.
Oh well it has been proven time and time again, you cannot switch form on and off and perhaps Milan deserved to win nothing this season as they were totally unprofessional in the league, drawing and losing to the likes of Brescia and Sienna at the time they did and being totally outplayed in both games by PSv

The likes of Dharosso was criminally underplayed, same for Ambrosini, Serginho , didnt even know Simic was still at Milan till i read his name recently, so even if they played 8 games in 3 days they had the squad to cope

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++


And the most goals scored (67) and least goals conceded (27).

Hell yeah :cap:

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++


And the most goals scored (67) and least goals conceded (27).

:strong: And unlike last season where Capello managed to accomplish the same with Roma, he got the Scudetto this time.

 

[Geof]

we rock!! forza :cap:

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
:strong: And unlike last season where Capello managed to accomplish the same with Roma

Is that so? I didn't know that... incredible

 

[Nicole]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


:strong: And unlike last season where Capello managed to accomplish the same with Roma, he got the Scudetto this time.

And that doesnt prove anything does it? Easier to win Scudetto's at Juve, why could it be like that, hmm?

 

[Max]

It proves that Juvetus played stronger against the smaller teams, where as Roma did not.

 

[Vinman]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
omg these Gol TV commentators are awful. I just saw the bit where they mistake Pessotto for Birindelli for a full half hour, even throwing in comments like "that was a poor cross by Birindelli, and that's the reason Pessotto usually starts instead of him" :groan:

then they say "Trezeguet is the best assist man of the three (DP, Zlatan, Trez). Del Piero and Zlatan are more strikers than center-forwards."...

isn't it the other way around? :undecide:

Also, it's not Jewventus vs. Calgary :irritate:, and the 43rd minute is NOT two minutes from time

exactly what I was thinking....

as I pulled my hair out of my head, listening to these idiots !!!!

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++

exactly what I was thinking....

as I pulled my hair out of my head, listening to these idiots !!!!

Still beats the hell out of LISTENING to games on Rai, or reading match threads.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++


I am sorry I do not accept that at all, Milan were as bad in the second half as Liverpool were clueless in the first

Please note the following:
In the first half Milan scored 3 goals...had another goal called off-side...whether it was OR was not is not my point...
Milan came within inches from getting another.
Liverpool did not create ONE SCORING CHANCE.

In the second half: liverpool took three REAL opportunities and scored on ALL THREE. Did they ever come close to goal besides those three opportunities?
Milan in the second half came close to goal with Shevchenko's free kick in which Dudek made a marvelous save.
Kaka came within a HAIR of a goal but it was saved by the defender heading it out from his own post.

Sorry..I fail to see how Milan were as bad in the second half...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++

But the fact still remains that in a final you cannot throw away a 3-0 lead and especially not to a very average Liverpool side.

True but that is not my argument or point I was making...my point was that they had a MUCH BETTER game than Liverpool anyway you look at it...people seem to think that the 3 goal comeback was enough to warrant that Liverpool played better ... they capitalized on three scoring opportunities and thanks to a poor game day Dida they scored...they did little else but hold Milan back...as best they could.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Well I have read how overrated the Epl is and all sorts of nonsense so for that reason i was not too upset that Milan lost , as i surely would have been if not for the crap i read on here.
If you did not know it before then you do now, the teams in Epl might not be as sophisticated or as technical as their serieA counterparts but they give you everything and never known when they are beaten unlike Italinas in general who always tend to play for either 45 minutes or 60 minutes re Italy vs Sweden and then do nothing for the rest of the game.

True but at the same time Italian teams rarely take a 3-0 lead and attack as much as Milan did...they also rarely play as dominating as Milan did in the first half.
People blame the coach, the players, etc. However, I don't care WHO you are: it is human nature to put your guard down a bit when you are leading 3-0 and dominating as they did.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
In the second half Milna did absolutely nothing until the extra time period, but by then the gods had decreed Liverpool will win it.

Absolutely disagree....
if you compare it to their first half...sure....you must also keep in mind that the momentum was in Liverpool's corner as was the mental capability to win it after 3 fast goals....Milan was caught with their pants down..Liverpool failed to do much else....
Milan had to re-group/substitute and get back some confidence...

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I do feel very much for Sheva, as yes Crespo played well in the final but surely he is not a partner for Sheva, Tomasson has jjust gone to pieces, why Ancellotti insists all the time on keeping Seedorf on the field when it was obvious that Serginho will hurt Liverpool more from that position. Kaka was brilliant in the first half but non existent after wards.

Seedorf actually played a very good controlling game compared to his terrible form as of lately..in fact..in the first half he did not make Liverpool touch a ball and had them playing 'tag' with him...
He was not a wrong choice...
Crespo is a CLUTCH player and given the choice between him and Pippo or JDT..it was no choice at all.

Kaka was brilliant in the first half..the second half...like I said: compared to the first half the team was in pieces but still had scoring opportunities.

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
But perhaps the most telling thing is that Stam has taken away form Milan with his presence as no way should Maldini be playing at left back at his age.
Oh well it has been proven time and time again, you cannot switch form on and off and perhaps Milan deserved to win nothing this season as they were totally unprofessional in the league, drawing and losing to the likes of Brescia and Sienna at the time they did and being totally outplayed in both games by PSv.

Sorry....I think that basing their CL run on one game (PSV) and forgetting about a 7 game unbeaten and goaless streak is horsesh*t ... saying this team deserved nothing is even more horsesh*t because Moggi and Capello know the only reason they won SERIE A is because Milan concentrated efforts on CL: playing 10 games in a month....battling the likes of Man U, Inter and PSV and staying atop Serie A with 4 weeks left was a toll no team in Europe faced...
Juve was the atypical Italian team which dazzled very little in Europe and even less in Italy: but then again that is a Capello trademark...winning 1-0 ... 92-94 Milan anyone?!

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
The likes of Dharosso was criminally underplayed, same for Ambrosini, Serginho , didnt even know Simic was still at Milan till i read his name recently, so even if they played 8 games in 3 days they had the squad to cope

They are not playing the likes of Livorno in CL and as a result one cannot count on a Simic or Serginho for 90 minutes when they have barely played 30 minutes in the last month. Playing Dhorasso was easier said than done .. he has not yet found his niche in the team and a heated battle for Serie A and CL is not the time to 'test new missles'.

 

[Respaul]

Why is it that every loss is in one way or another milans own fault... In your posts you never give any real credit to the other team...
You give next to know credit to liverpool and no credit to juve...
Its allways down to the schedule or milans bad luck or an off day etc etc

Give credit where its due!

Even if what you say was true... that doesnt say mech for milan, does it?

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

Liverpool did not create ONE SCORING CHANCE.

In the second half: liverpool took three REAL opportunities and scored on ALL THREE. Did they ever come close to goal besides those three opportunities?

Sorry..I fail to see how Milan were as bad in the second half...


True but that is not my argument or point I was making...my point was that they had a MUCH BETTER game than Liverpool anyway you look at it...
they capitalized on three scoring opportunities and thanks to a poor game day Dida they scored...they did little else but hold Milan back...as best they could.


Absolutely disagree....
if you compare it to their first half...sure....you must also keep in mind that the momentum was in Liverpool's corner as was the mental capability to win it after 3 fast goals....Milan was caught with their pants down..Liverpool failed to do much else....

Liverpool did nothing?

Please be reasonable... the facts are that even with playing a more defensive game for the entire extra time plus other periods... they created 14 chances on goal to milans 18... sorry but that isnt nothing.

Unlike milan they also showed that they were capable of changing... After getting the tactics wrong and dropping 3 goals... rafa made the right changes and they were back in the game... they also instantly recognised the damage serghino was doing when he came on and took the bold decision to use gerard as a right back to cover him... which he did briliantly cutting him out every time until he ran over to the other side as he couldnt take it anymore.

Liverpool showed great character and flexibility, they created chances and were able to change tactics when needed and yes they had a bit off luck

saying this team deserved nothing is even more horsesh*t because Moggi and Capello know the only reason they won SERIE A is because Milan concentrated efforts on CL: playing 10 games in a month....Juve was the atypical Italian team which dazzled very little in Europe and even less in Italy: but then again that is a Capello trademark...winning 1-0 ... 92-94 Milan anyone?!

What crap...

You and milan know full well that the only reason milan were even involved in the title challenge was that juve had a mad couple of weeks at the turn of the year and threw away an 8 point lead.
Milan should never have even figured in the title run in.

You also forget that we all had that fixture list... ok so you had and extra 3 games... so what... you have a much larger squad... You also forget that the fixture list was even manipulated to help milans cl bid

 

[swag]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


Still beats the hell out of LISTENING to games on Rai, or reading match threads.

Ahhh, but that's where I've come to disagree. RAI announcers are far from the greatest. I love how often they are caught on mike giving a full diaphragm cough on air.

But the English language announcers on either ESPN, ABC, or GolTV are just dreadful. They're dreadfully boring and complete idiots at the same time. Contrast with the BBC or ITV announcers in England -- where maybe they seem dry as toast when compared with the crystal-meth-driven South American announcers, but they are very knowledgeable and have brilliantly dry wit in their commentary.

It's enough to make you want to learn more Italian.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
Why is it that every loss is in one way or another milans own fault... In your posts you never give any real credit to the other team...
You give next to know credit to liverpool and no credit to juve...
Its allways down to the schedule or milans bad luck or an off day etc etc

Firstly Paul I expected more from you in the sense that if you are going to CUT and paste my posts and then attack paragraphs totally out of context then I say go work for FOX TELEVISION or Michael Moore Productions because I can't ..WON'T defend my statements when you pull them out of context....

I still believe that Milan played a better game than Liverpool ... Liverpool rebounded from a 3-0 deficit. For some that is enough to warrant a better game..for me it is not.
They had three opportunities and scored. Dida did not make ONE save that night.
THey also allowed MILAN to do what they wanted in extra time...there is no excuse for giving Shevchenko two shots at net like that in extra time and letting Milan control the midfield when the TITLE is on the line...so no I don't think LIVERPOOL played better.
They had the bigger HORSESHOE UP their arse is all...

As for Serie A...I stated that Juve played a better game at San Siro. But I also believe that the gruelling schedule was more the reason they lost than Juve being a better team this season...
Personally I think this Juve team was one of the LESS IMPRESSIVE in MANY YEARS ...
The fact that one player barely stands out for having a stellar year speaks volumes about them.

but that was not my point.

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
Liverpool did nothing?

Did you read my post or just became "RED" when you saw this line...Denco was saying that Milan did just as little in the second half as Liverpool did in the first...
I said Liverpool did NOTHING in the first half....

Making all this argument

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Please be reasonable... the facts are that even with playing a more defensive game for the entire extra time plus other periods... they created 14 chances on goal to milans 18... sorry but that isnt nothing.

Pure rubbish because I was refering to the first half...

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Unlike milan they also showed that they were capable of changing... After getting the tactics wrong and dropping 3 goals... rafa made the right changes and they were back in the game... they also instantly recognised the damage serghino was doing when he came on and took the bold decision to use gerard as a right back to cover him... which he did briliantly cutting him out every time until he ran over to the other side as he couldnt take it anymore..

Change tactics...yes for a total of seven minutes and with calls just enough to help them mount that comeback....
two out of three goals have textbook errors in them...so while heart and perseverance had a big role in the comeback I don't know how much TACTIC did because they did little else the rest of the game...

Kaka's header off a corner was saved by Enrique practically in the NET..
Tomasson was left alone on the receiving end of cross and was inches from connecting..
Sheva was also left alone from another cross and failed to connect because he slipped....
Sheva was given three opportunities to put it away in extra time in what was incredible goalkeeping and poor marking by Liverpool....

Seems like Stevie was the only one making good decisions...

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Liverpool showed great character and flexibility, they created chances and were able to change tactics when needed and yes they had a bit off luck

I stated this time and time again.....nothing new.

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
What crap...

The real crap is how your taking my argument and slicing it up to attack statements

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

You and milan know full well that the only reason milan were even involved in the title challenge was that juve had a mad couple of weeks at the turn of the year and threw away an 8 point lead.
Milan should never have even figured in the title run in.

That argument is full of sh*t because there is a FLIP side to that coin.....one can easily say that Milan keeping toe to toe with Juve while playing Man U, Inter and PSV was a hell of a lot harder than any "mad couple of weeks" Juve faced...more over, when you give up 8 points in a week do you really deserve to stay atop?
the argument among Juventini is that they showed HEART by staying atop..where was the heart when they blew 8 points...where was the heart when they blew another 3 point lead two weeks before the San Siro match?
Pure RUBBISH....You and I know that the Milan of October to April would have put Juve to 'sleep' faster than any tranquilizer pill.

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
You also forget that we all had that fixture list... ok so you had and extra 3 games... so what... you have a much larger squad... You also forget that the fixture list was even manipulated to help milans cl bid

I'm glad you mentioned that because the only team showing its true colors who refused to move the match later on given the hectic CL schedule was the always classy and honest "Vecchia Signora".....real sportsmanship.

3 GAMES? PAUL...HONESTLY:

Benjamin Disraeli once said there are 3 great lies in this world:
LIES..DAMN LIES and STATISTICS....

Playing Inter your cross city rival who hates you more than DEATH TWICE in the middle of the week and staying atop Serie A is more than just playing a few..more games..

we were also not playing the likes of LIVORNO and REGGINA in those SIGNIFICANT "other" games.....
those games .. each one was literally DO or DIE (that is what Capello has not yet learned about CL League).....so that arguement .....

Sell it to the tourists....

 

[jaecole]

You don't need to use caps on certain words. This isn't special school.

 

[Nicole]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++
You don't need to use caps on certain words. This isn't special school.

You would know all about that right?