News that makes you say WTF! (19 Viewers)

[Hængebøffer]

Well, I don't know. But you have terrorist attaks from Pakistan too. Surely that's Asia too.

Or did you just mean China?

The point is, we foremost have problem with terrorism from Islamic countries. Blaming it solely on interfering is stupid, when it has happened everywhere.

 

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[Hængebøffer]

As weird as it may sound, I sort of agree with that. Most Iraqi refugees I helped had problems with other tribes btw. Sure, they had religious differences with those people too, but in fact a lot of the weren't even practising muslims. Tribal issues were the first thing they spoke of.

We should always (rightly) be critical of The States and the rest of The West. But we should not forget that most of the rest of the world are worse.

 

[king Ale]

Which makes the entire thing more scary imo. Isis means nothing in the grand scheme or things. Their objectives are utter nonsense and completely unachievable. But if the crazies start doing shit like this.. Well, there are a lot of crazy people out there.

Not really. It's important to see what precedes what. The Orlando shooter was in no way radicalized. In other words, helping ISIS was not his motive, even if he portrayed it as such. I believe it was the case with the Nice attacker as well. It would be scary if such simple "calls" to kill people were enough to convert people to violence, but they definitely are not.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Not really. It's important to see what precedes what. The Orlando shooter was in no way radicalized. In other words, helping ISIS was not his motive, even if he portrayed it as such. I believe it was the case with the Nice attacker as well. It would be scary if such simple "calls" to kill people were enough to convert people to violence, but they definitely are not.

Not people, but susceptible with nothing to lose individuals, a lot of it is suicidal yes but plenty of people use them to carry out their biddings, just look at gangs in the US

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We should always (rightly) be critical of The States and the rest of The West. But we should not forget that most of the rest of the world are worse.

Which rest and worse in what way

 

[Hængebøffer]

Not really. It's important to see what precedes what. The Orlando shooter was in no way radicalized. In other words, helping ISIS was not his motive, even if he portrayed it as such. I believe it was the case with the Nice attacker as well. It would be scary if such simple "calls" to kill people were enough to convert people to violence, but they definitely are not.

Not people, but susceptible with nothing to lose individuals, a lot of it is suicidal yes but plenty of people use them to carry out their biddings, just look at gangs in the US

You're both right. This is why we shouldn't limit freedom of speech. We need to know who the loonies are.

 

[Hængebøffer]

and where

 

[Seven]

Not really. It's important to see what precedes what. The Orlando shooter was in no way radicalized. In other words, helping ISIS was not his motive, even if he portrayed it as such. I believe it was the case with the Nice attacker as well. It would be scary if such simple "calls" to kill people were enough to convert people to violence, but they definitely are not.

I think you should read my post again, Hoori .

 

[king Ale]

Not people, but susceptible with nothing to lose individuals, a lot of it is suicidal yes but plenty of people use them to carry out their biddings, just look at gangs in the US

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Which rest and worse in what way

But anything could be a trigger for those individuals to seek revenge, just like most of mass shooters in the US. My point is, to think that such calls by the likes of ISIS are so powerful they can encourage people/(or as you say even mentally disturbed individuals) to commit violent attacks is just giving too much credit to those losers and giving up to fear. If anything, the way these attacks are portrayed in the media (i'm not saying there's any better way to do so) and/or reacted to by people all over the world can itself be a motivational factor for such individuals who know the scope of the reaction to what they do is no longer restricted only to a local area if they frame it as an islamist motivated action.

 

[swag]

@swag

A read you might find interesting.



http://quillette.com/2016/07/16/flag-shaming-in-response-to-terrorism/

Good read. And pretty accurate, IMO. Thanks.

I hadn't heard about the recent flag-shaming phenomenon.

But then I've been noticing how often the US flag has been at half-mast lately (I work on what is essentially a NASA/military base), and then I discovered this:

http://us.halfstaff.org/

Half-staffing the flag has become a near-permanent state now it seems.

This is as clear a claim as can be

I don't give that much credibility. At least in the case of other attacks, the guilty parties came out publicly with some kind of declaration of support or alliance with Daesh. That didn't happen in this case from what I could tell.

And even the lone wolves who do proclaim -- I have a sinking feeling it's a final desperate attempt for some psycho to ascribe some higher meaning to their own senseless suicides.

 

[Seven]

But anything could be a trigger for those individuals to seek revenge, just like most of mass shooters in the US. My point is, to think that such calls by the likes of ISIS are so powerful they can encourage people/(or as you say even mentally disturbed individuals) to commit violent attacks is just giving too much credit to those losers and giving up to fear. If anything, the way these attacks are portrayed in the media (i'm not saying there's any better way to do so) and/or reacted to by people all over the world can itself be a motivational factor for such individuals who know the scope of the reaction to what they do is no longer restricted only to a local area if they frame it as an islamist motivated action.

Yes, anything could be a trigger. That was the point of my post..

 

[king Ale]

I think you should read my post again, Hoori .

Ah you're right. I thought you meant it's scarier if the attack was not organized by isis, but some random crazy individual decided to just respond to their call on his own.

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Good read. And pretty accurate, IMO. Thanks.

I hadn't heard about the recent flag-shaming phenomenon.

But then I've been noticing how often the US flag has been at half-mast lately (I work on what is essentially a NASA/military base), and then I discovered this:

http://us.halfstaff.org/

Half-staffing the flag has become a near-permanent state now it seems.



I don't give that much credibility. At least in the case of other attacks, the guilty parties came out publicly with some kind of declaration of support or alliance with Daesh. That didn't happen in this case from what I could tell.

And even the lone wolves who do proclaim -- I have a sinking feeling it's a final desperate attempt for some psycho to ascribe some higher meaning to their own senseless suicides.

This is what I think.

EDIT: Although unlike the Orlando shooter this dude hasn't even said anything about his motive. @swag

 

[Seven]

Ah you're right. I thought you meant it's scarier if the attack was not organized by isis, but some random crazy individual decided to just respond to their call on his own.

The question will be how we solve this and if you can do something about it at all. I bet it's no coincidence this guy was in his early thirties. If ever there's a time in life a lot of people feel they haven't achieved enough it's then.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

But anything could be a trigger for those individuals to seek revenge, just like most of mass shooters in the US. My point is, to think that such calls by the likes of ISIS are so powerful they can encourage people/(or as you say even mentally disturbed individuals) to commit violent attacks is just giving too much credit to those losers and giving up to fear. If anything, the way these attacks are portrayed in the media (i'm not saying there's any better way to do so) and/or reacted to by people all over the world can itself be a motivational factor for such individuals who know the scope of the reaction to what they do is no longer restricted only to a local area if they frame it as an islamist motivated action.

But isis is powerful in that sense it knew how to channel the anger of first and second generation europeans to commit crimes in the name of a religion they don't understand, they would have a lot less success with Americans imo just look at france before and after isis, no way would this weekends events have been imaginable before. Isis game is online and its target is disenfranchised youth.

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The question will be how we solve this and if you can do something about it at all. I bet it's no coincidence this guy was in his early thirties. If ever there's a time in life a lot of people feel they haven't achieved enough it's then.

There's no solution, we will just have to ride it out, the lesson though is to nip these things in the bud and stop fucking with other people's countries.

 

[king Ale]

The question will be how we solve this and if you can do something about it at all. I bet it's no coincidence this guy was in his early thirties. If ever there's a time in life a lot of people feel they haven't achieved enough it's then.

Heh I'm the most clueless soul on the entire planet which is why i even discuss these things at all. And I change my opinion every few months lol.

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But isis is powerful in that sense it knew how to channel the anger of first and second generation europeans to commit crimes in the name of a religion they don't understand, they would have a lot less success with Americans imo just look at france before and after isis, no way would this weekends events have been imaginable before. Isis game is online and its target is disenfranchised youth.

I agree with you.

 

[Hængebøffer]

But isis is powerful in that sense it knew how to channel the anger of first and second generation europeans to commit crimes in the name of a religion they don't understand, they would have a lot less success with Americans imo just look at france before and after isis, no way would this weekends events have been imaginable before. Isis game is online and its target is disenfranchised youth.

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There's no solution, we will just have to ride it out, the lesson though is to nip these things in the bud and stop fucking with other people's countries.

Please. You know it won't change shit. Capitalism made life better. We live longer and there's more people than ever. More people= more people on the bottom.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Heh I'm the most clueless soul on the entire planet which is why i even discuss these things at all. And I change my opinion every few months lol.

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I agree with you.

It's not clueless. It just mean you don't have an agenda.

 

[Mohad]

Isis game is online and its target is disenfranchised youth.

This.

Lack of good education and parents not giving enough time to their kids could turn them into weapons.

Read this for example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udi-Arabia-sparks-debate-Islamic-scholar.html

 

[king Ale]

This.

Lack of good education and parents not giving enough time to their kids could turn them into weapons.

Read this for example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udi-Arabia-sparks-debate-Islamic-scholar.html

He's talking about a different process though, young european born children of muslim immigrants who haven't necessarily had any exposure to islam but are never looked at in the same way as a "rooted european" are easiest targets for the likes of daesh because embracing their unique ideology gives worth and meaning to an otherwise worthless individual (i'm not using these terms in their true meaning but in the way they are interpreted by these people).

This is a good read:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

 

[swag]

EDIT: Although unlike the Orlando shooter this dude hasn't even said anything about his motive. @swag

No motive. No allegiances.

Makes me wonder how much of that was just mental illness for a guy with a grudge against the world. Another Elliot Rodger in another place. But then even he at last left video diatribes about his hate on frat boys and girls who were scared of him.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Please. You know it won't change shit. Capitalism made life better. We live longer and there's more people than ever. More people= more people on the bottom.

?? Whats that got to do with what i said