News that makes you say WTF! (33 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

Just put him on your ignore list. I do so too. Occasionally when I want to I'll respond to him, but mostly I don't want to read what he says. The problem with Rus is that he has obvious psychological problems. Remember when he was telling everyone he owned a busines and employed dozens of workers? That was fun.. He's a sad case and it's probably best not to enable him too much.

The problem is that it inevitebly lowers the quality of the discussion because replies to his posts aren't often that great either.

But yeah, you're right.

Atheism is simply non-belief in the existence of a diety/god.
It has nothing to do with 'knowing' whether god exists or not.

Atheism/theism pertains to belief whereas gnosticism/agnosticm pertains to knowledge.

Some atheists are convinced that there is no god though, that's a difference imo

 

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[lgorTudor]

Some atheists are convinced that there is no god though, that's a difference imo

antitheism

 

[Seven]

Atheism is simply non-belief in the existence of a diety/god.
It has nothing to do with 'knowing' whether god exists or not.

Atheism/theism pertains to belief whereas gnosticism/agnosticm pertains to knowledge.

In a broad sense I guess some people will say atheism is merely the absence of belief in God. But tbh that really borders on agnosticism.

I understand the distinction you're making between belief/non-belief and knowledge, but I doubt there are many people out there who are willing to admit that you cannot possibly 'know' any of this, but who still believe themselves. It is theoretically possible of course.

 

[Juliano13]

At the discretion means absolutely nothing, like i said every country in the world has that provision and it's never mentioned in their immigration charts for a reason. Fyi by law jews can't marry non jews in Israel, even if they convert.

That is incorrect.

 

[swag]

Sure. And a lot of religions have the same values. But in theory those values are something that follows from believing.

You don't pick christianity because you believe in the ten commandments, you believe in the ten commandments because you are Christian.

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But then I think that secular humanism has its saints, its texts, its manifestos and declarations.

Hell, even the Bahá'í Faith basically adopts science as its creation mythos.

That has actually been a pretty good discussion, guess that's what happens when guys like Rus stay away from a political topic

 

[GordoDeCentral]

That is incorrect.

What are your sources

 

[Seven]

But then I think that secular humanism has its saints, its texts, its manifestos and declarations.

Hell, even the Bahá'í Faith basically adopts science as its creation mythos.

Of course. But secular humanism is different from atheism. For example I think one of the consequences of secular humanism might be agnosticism or atheism. But it's not the origin.

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What are your sources

I bet that you'll be dubbed an antisemite within the next half hour.

 

[Juliano13]

What are your sources

Wikipedia

Seriously, though, there is no civil marriage in Israel. If a Jew wants to marry a Christian, for example, and s/he converts, the couple will be married by the Christian community. They can also get married abroad and the State of Israel will recognise the marriage.

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I bet that you'll be dubbed an antisemite within the next half hour.

It's amazing how you never miss an opportunity to embarrass yourself.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Wikipedia

Seriously, though, there is no civil marriage in Israel. If a Jew wants to marry a Christian, for example, and s/he converts, the couple will be married by the Christian community. They can also get married abroad and the State of Israel will recognise the marriage.

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It's amazing how you never miss an opportunity to embarrass yourself.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3429764.html

 

[Seven]

Wikipedia

Seriously, though, there is no civil marriage in Israel. If a Jew wants to marry a Christian, for example, and s/he converts, the couple will be married by the Christian community. They can also get married abroad and the State of Israel will recognise the marriage.

The very fact there is no civil marriage, but there is a religious one, only tells me religion is fundamental to the state of Israel.

 

[swag]

Of course. But secular humanism is different from atheism. For example I think one of the consequences of secular humanism might be agnosticism or atheism. But it's not the origin.

Secular humanism is different from atheism. But my point was to illustrate that athiesm, like secular humanism, may not have an overtly traditional religious bent and yet have their sacred texts, their saints: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, etc.

Zen Buddhists also worship no deity, but yet we consider them religious.

 

[Juliano13]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3429764.html

The way understood the original post was that they cannot get married even if the Jew converts.

 

[Seven]

Secular humanism is different from atheism. But my point was to illustrate that athiesm, like secular humanism, may not have an overtly traditional religious bent and yet have their sacred texts, their saints: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, etc.

Zen Buddhists also worship no deity, but yet we consider them religious.

True, but the point of atheism is that is just the absence of belief in a God. It is no ethos as such. And while you definitely have people who can become almost religious when defending the idea, Hawkins is a fine example, atheism can never be considered a religion because it has no inherent values.

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The way understood the original post was that they cannot get married even if the Jew converts.

Can atheists get married?

 

[Juliano13]

The very fact there is no civil marriage, but there is a religious one, only tells me religion is fundamental to the state of Israel.

You always seem to have grave difficulties in understanding the topic of a discussion. Nobody is talking about that. I simply corrected a statement.

 

[Seven]

You always seem to have grave difficulties in understanding the topic of a discussion. Nobody is talking about that. I simply corrected a statement.

The topic of this discussion was whether or not Israel was based on religion. Remember?

The only country based solely on religion in the world is Israel.*


*Vatican city don't count, since i threw parties with more people than its population

For an ignorant fucker, you're pretty arrogant. But that's fine, I'll accept your apology.

Also, can atheists get married in Israel?

 

[Juliano13]

Can atheists get married?

Depends on what you mean by atheists. For a civil marriage they have to go abroad. But a very large percentage of the Jewish population of Israel is secular. Just because someone is formally a Judaist and has had a traditional wedding, doesn't mean they are not atheist.

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The topic of this discussion was whether or not Israel was based on religion. Remember?



For an ignorant fucker, you're pretty arrogant. But that's fine, I'll accept your apology.

Also, can atheists get married in Israel?

I never wrote anything about that. Your question/statement should have been addressed to someone else.

 

[campionesidd]

The marriage law seems pretty outdated. They should change it soon.

 

[Seven]

Depends on what you mean by atheists. For a civil marriage they have to go abroad. But a very large percentage of the Jewish population of Israel is secular. Just because someone is formally a Judaist and has had a traditional wedding, doesn't mean they are not atheist.

You weaseled your way into what you thought was the best possible answer given the shit situation you were in, but I take away from it that atheists can in fact not get married in Israel.

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I never wrote anything about that. Your question/statement should have been addressed to someone else.

No, it should not have. It was the exact topic of the debate and you quoted X, who was the poster who started the entire thing. You were wrong. Just admit it, dude.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

The way understood the original post was that they cannot get married even if the Jew converts.

In the article the percentage of people whose conversion is accepted by Jewish orthodoxy is negligible

 

[Juliano13]

You weaseled your way into what you thought was the best possible answer given the shit situation you were in, but I take away from it that atheists can in fact not get married in Israel.

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No, it should not have. It was the exact topic of the debate and you quoted X, who was the poster who started the entire thing. You were wrong. Just admit it, dude.

Are you deliberately trying to annoy me or really can't understand even the most simple concepts? There is no civil marriage in Israel. You know that and you still ask weather atheists can get married! Under the circumstances my answer was as complete as possible.

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In the article the percentage of people whose conversion is accepted by Jewish orthodoxy is negligible

I don't know about that. It's possible and retarded and it sucks. My point from the beginning was that if the Jew converts to Islam or Christianity or whatever, than it's not up to the Jewish orthodoxy.

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Fyi by law jews can't marry non jews in Israel, even if they convert.

There are two ways this statement can be understood:
1. Either they means the jews, in which case it means that jews cannot get married to non-jews even if the jew converts to the other religion. That is not correct.
2. Or they means the non-jew, in which case it means that jews cannot get married to non-jews even if the non-jew converts to Judaism. But you also said by law. Which means this statement is also incorrect. By law they are allowed, even if in practice the Jewish orthodoxy tries to make it as hard as possible.