New Juve scandal: Moggi talking to referees (4 Viewers)

Revan

New Member
May 24, 2006
46
Italians lap up phone-tap leaks but unease grows
Tue May 30, 2006 12:39 PM BST
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By Gavin Jones

ROME (Reuters) - Italians already soaking up the early summer sun at the seaside are engrossed in exactly the same beach reading as last year -- newspapers full of details of secretly recorded telephone conversations of famous people.

Last year it was finance, this year it's soccer. Last year the prime "victim" was former central bank chief Antonio Fazio, this year it's Luciano Moggi, the former general manager of Italy's most successful club, Juventus.

Fazio was suspected by prosecutors of insider trading. Moggi is being probed for alleged match fixing. They were both forced to resign by the publication of transcripts of embarrassing but often entertaining taps.

"I locked the referee in the changing room and took the keys to the airport, now they'll have to knock down the door to let him out," Moggi boasted to a friend on the phone after "kidnapping" a referee whom he judged had penalised Juventus.

"Tonino, I'm moved ... I have goosebumps ... I'd like to kiss you on the forehead," disgraced banker Gianpiero Fiorani famously told the supposedly neutral Fazio after he had approved Fiorani's bid to take over a rival bank.

Yet neither Fazio nor Moggi have been charged with any crime and many Italians believe the taps, and particularly their use by the media, are a voyeuristic abuse of defendants' rights.

The transcripts are thought to be leaked either by the prosecutors' office or by clients' lawyers. The publication of transcripts of Moggi's phone calls is illegal because the investigation is still ongoing.

A suspect exposed to public ridicule can be forced from office even if he is innocent and in any case has less chance of subsequently defending himself in the courts, the critics say.

"We are supposed to be a nation of civil guarantees, the phone taps are barbaric," said seven-times prime minister Giulio Andreotti, who was finally acquitted two years ago after more than a decade of Mafia-related trials.

In Italy, a country of around 60 million people, nearly 30 million might have had phone calls recorded in the past decade, according to a study by the Eurispes research institute.

Advocates of wire taps say many high profile arrests, particularly of elusive Mafia fugitives, would not have been possible without the help of phone interceptions.

But centre-left senator Antonio Polito is one of many lawmakers who believe the use of the taps and their publication have gone far beyond what the law allows.

He is planning to set up a parliamentary inquiry into the problem, which he describes as "the biggest risk to (Italian) democracy since Fascism."

MOUNTAIN OR MOLEHILL?

Despite these concerns, Italy's press and television have shown no reservation about presenting Moggi as the lynchpin of a Mafia-type organisation that pulled all the strings in football until it went one phone-call too far.

A gravel-voiced, cigar-chomping wheeler-dealer, he looks perfectly cast for the role.

Yet Antonio Di Pietro, the former prosecutor who spearheaded the Italian Clean Hands corruption probe that brought down an entire political class in the early 1990s, said there was scarce evidence of the "sporting fraud" the investigators suspect.

"From a legal point of view I think we'll see a mountain has been made out of a molehill," Di Pietro said last week.


Former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has often dismissed data on Italy's weak economy by pointing out that Italians had more mobile phones per head than almost anywhere in the world.

Moggi had six, and in the 2004-5 football season prosecutors reportedly tapped 100,000 of his phone calls, averaging out at an astonishing 416 calls per day.
:oops:

Justice Minister Clemente Mastella has pledged to investigate reports that a former employee of Italy's main phone operator, Telecom Italia, has created a secret phone-tap database with 100,000 files on Italy's political, economic and sporting elite.

"We cannot live in Italy under the constant fear of being spied on," Mastella said.
 

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Gep

The Guv'nor
Jun 12, 2005
16,421
FOOTBALL: DI PIETRO-JUVENTUS DECISION CAN BE MADE IMMEDIATELY
(AGI) - Rome, 30 May - The material gathered against Juventus is already, enough to be able to immediately close the investigation - this was the opinion expressed by the Minister for Transport Antonio Di Pietro whilst at a convention. "With regard to certain aspects, including unfortunately, my team Juventus, the leading government figure said, the material is sufficiently informative to be able to make a decision not within 15 days but now".
 

zizoufan

Z.Z T h e M a s t e r
May 25, 2004
2,500
Moggi D'Messiah said:
FOOTBALL: DI PIETRO-JUVENTUS DECISION CAN BE MADE IMMEDIATELY
(AGI) - Rome, 30 May - The material gathered against Juventus is already, enough to be able to immediately close the investigation - this was the opinion expressed by the Minister for Transport Antonio Di Pietro whilst at a convention. "With regard to certain aspects, including unfortunately, my team Juventus, the leading government figure said, the material is sufficiently informative to be able to make a decision not within 15 days but now".
what he's meaning by that statement ? are we K.O ?
 

zizoufan

Z.Z T h e M a s t e r
May 25, 2004
2,500
Moggi D'Messiah said:
Im hoping so. But he wants them to hurry and make there decision. I think hes silently confident tho. :smoke:
hey man ! I said : " are we K.O and not are we O.K !
there's a big difference between the two expressions I fear :D
 

Gep

The Guv'nor
Jun 12, 2005
16,421
zizoufan said:
hey man ! I said : " are we K.O and not are we O.K !
there's a big difference between the two expressions I fear :D

I did notice but couldnt be bothered to ask if you really meant k.o. so asumed you meant ok. Either way shut it! :D and lets hope for the best for our club. :p
 

Espectro

The Grimreaper
Jul 12, 2002
13,824
Lawyer Gianaria: “Moggi Protected Juve. The Real Power Is Milan’s”


The lawyer of Luciano Moggi, the former General Director of Juventus, has constructed a scenario that is markedly different from the one being hypothesized by the Naples power of attorney investigating the so-called ’Moggi-gate’ scandal that is convulsing Italian football.



It’s misleading to think that everyone was at the service of Moggi, Bergamo and Fazi,” said Fulvio Gianaria. “It’s a hypothesis which only serves to create the monster.”

Gianaria, defending Luciano Moggi, added: “An observation on how the Moggi monster was built is imposing itself: the intercepted conversations, with regards to the football system, are essentially of 6-7 persons, the same which more or less the power of attorney of Naples is contesting the conspiracy to commit sports fraud.

“The police who are leading the investigation selected 2,500 telephone calls [from the 100,000 available and maybe even more than what is being said] and from these, 40 have been chosen to define the theory of a football ‘cupola’ dominated by Moggi. It’s enough to satisfy the hunger and the emotions of half of the Italian fans who in this manner see their suspicions confirmed. We would like to listen to all of the phone calls and place them into the reality of the real centres of power of football: the television rights and strength of the internal football system corporations.”

The members can be guessed, can you be more clear on the rest?
“The referees, the Federcalcio, the Lega Calcio: thinking that all of these realities moved under the orders of Moggi, Bergamo and Fazi is misleading. It can serve to liquidate in sports a popular question that all is cleared, but in criminal prosecution it’s a different story.”

There seems to be a certain optimism on the outcome of the criminal enquiry
“I’m limiting myself to observe that the accusations will have to be proven in court. If there is nothing else, the theories will collapse. The Turin power of attorney looked for confirmation of the phone calls interceptions to evaluate them and came to the conclusion that there was no sports fraud involved. The hypothesis of the ‘cupola’ with Moggi at the top works to build a monster which controls everyone, inside and outside the football world. In the meantime, I would like to listen to the whole 2,500 phone calls, and not have to read published fragments. I say it with all due respect for the work of the police who have selected the conversations which they believed were relevant.”

In the meantime?
“If we cannot inform ourselves, we cannot defend ourselves, and for the time being we are not going to any public minister. Not even to Borelli [the prosecutor chosen by the Italian federation for the sports justice trial] . I repeat: with all due respect for the roles and persons, I have already cleared it to a Turin judge.”

But you already have a defensive line
“Moggi always moved to preserve the strength of Juventus from the centre of important powers. I refer to those who have the possibility of negotiating and purchasing the television rights of the clubs, to those who own the television stations [aka Milan].

Moggi does not have a conflict of interest with GEA?
“It’s so obviously evident that it’s not Moggi who has the conflict of interest [Silvio Berlsconi owns three television stations and also a cable platform] Milan sells and, in a certain sense, buys the television rights; Juve sells them at the best offer, which is understandable. The three great vehicles of money in football are: TV rights, television, and members who recapitalize the club. Thinking that Moggi not only balanced them, but maybe even became the top of the football power is…a joke.”

goal.com


:shifty:
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
this thing is going to take a very long time am guessing. They cant even interrogate him yet, cuz he isnt a juve director anymore. Moggi's lawyer wants over 2000 phone calls to be given to him before anything happens.... i just hope the new season doesnt get halted becuz of this. I dont even know wat they will do to make the decision before mid july
 

AlexTheGreat

Senior Member
May 10, 2006
999
Bad very bad news..


"Per me Juventus in B"
Stagliano, ex-ufficio indagini, all'Espresso: "Ha condizionato un intero campionato. Rischia la Fiorentina, non Lazio e Milan". Rossi, commissario Figc: "Situazione grave"

MILANO, 1 giugno 2006 - BUFERA CALCIO, I FATTI DI OGGI

01-06-2006 - 12:05
Le previsioni di Stagliano: "In serie B solo Juve e Fiorentina"
Come si risolvera' lo scandalo intercettazioni? Secondo l'avvocatro Mario Stagliano - intervistato in esclusiva da L'Espresso che sara' in edicola domani - fino a due settimane fa vicecapo dell'Ufficio Indagini della Figc, la Juventus andra' in serie B e la Fiorentina dovra' seguirla; Milan e Lazio invece si possono salvare mentre Moggi rischierebbe poco. Appena esploso lo scandalo Stagliano ha preferito lasciare l'ufficio anche perche' anche lui compare in alcune delle intercettazioni nei confronti di Luciano Moggi. "Stagliano ti vuole segare. Ti vorrebbe morto fisicamente eppure nessuno gli fa niente", dice Maria Grazia Fazi, segretaria della Figc al suo amico Luciano.

"Stando a quanto si legge la Juve ha condizionato il campionato 2004/2005. Non stiamo parlando del classico illecito sportivo - commenta Stagliano - . Nessuna delle squadre coinvolte si e' comprata il portiere della squadra avversaria o l'arbitro. Moggi sarrebe intervenuto sulle griglie arbitrali, sul sorteggio ed anche sulle punizioni da dare agli arbitri. Quindi la Juve in B e revocare gli scudetti 2005 e 2006. Invece Moggi rischierebbe la sanzione massima di 5 anni di squalifica ma tanto ha gia' detto di volersi ritirare dal calcio...".

Tra le squadre coinvolte, per Stagliano chi rischia di piu' e' la Fiorentina: "La vedo male. Andrea e Diego della Valle e l'ammistratore delegato Mencucci figurano in modo diretto nelle intercettazioni. Mencucci, prima della partita finale dopo la quale i viola si sarebbero salvati, parla con il vicepresidente della Figc Innocenzo Mazzini per sistemare le partite delle concorrenti. La Fiorentina sta peggio della Juve perche' c'e' un tentativo di illecito classico che non c'e' nel caso della Juve, pero' non esageriamo perche' nel caso di Moggi non e' sotto inchiesta una sola partita ma un intero sistema. Dunque la Fiorentina rischia la B ma si potrebbe salvare grazie al principio di gradualita': se la Juve non retrocede in C mandare anche i viola in B sarebbe ingiusto".

Meno grave la situazione della Lazio e del Milan. "Pur con tutta l'antipatia per la Lazio visto che sono romanista non vedo rischi reali - dice Stagliano - perche' le partite che vedono coinvolta la Lazio non presentano particolari anomalie; secondo me non rischia nulla neanche il Milan: nelle telefonate di Meani non vedo illeciti chiari". Stagliano infine spiega cosa rischiano i 41 indagati dalle Procure di Napoli e Roma: "La pena massima per la frode sportiva e due anni, per l'associazione a delinquere invece cinque anni".

translation need..
 
Sep 14, 2003
5,800
There isn't anything really new in that article, it's just his opinion and I got the feeling he was preparing Juve and Fiorentina fans for some bad news - those that were'nt expecting it at least.
 

BFC82

Junior Member
Oct 24, 2003
493
For your reading pleasure....this is what your club is up to while you all are celebrating.

Enjoy!

Gabriele Marcotti in The Times:


LET US PRETEND THAT YOU ARE AN ambitious executive at
a big club. You are relatively successful, but you are
not satisfied. You know you can do much better, even
though some of your rivals have more money. So what do
you do? Well, if you do not mind occasionally stepping
on to the wrong side of the law, you may wish to
follow the alleged methods of Luciano Moggi, the
Juventus general manager, who, over the past decade,
appears to have turned Serie A into his personal
fiefdom.
The first step is to accumulate power. And in football
that comes in different guises: money, influence over
the FA and the League, control of players and
referees. You have some money, but not enough to
control everything financially, so it is best to focus
on the other elements

The head of the League is elected by the clubs. The
head of the FA is also, effectively, determined by the
clubs, in the sense that they exert influence over who
gets the job. Thus, it is essential that you befriend
as many clubs as possible, particularly smaller ones,
because their vote counts as much as those of the big
ones.

The way to do this is to do them favours. Start by
loaning them players and talk up the brilliance of
their chairmen at league meetings.


EXHIBIT ONE

Moggi, talking to Andrea Dalla Valle, a Fiorentina
official, when the club was in danger of relegation
with two weeks to go: “The problem is you didn’t come
to me sooner. See, you didn’t know how things worked
and you were hurt by it. Let’s see what we can work
out so that you’re treated fairly from now on.”

Once your man is elected to run the FA, make it very
clear that he owes his job to you and must do what you
say. If he steps out of line be firm and swift in your
response.


EXHIBIT TWO

Moggi talking to Innocenzo Mazzini, vice-president of
the Italian FA, after Franco Carraro, head of the FA,
talked about more “transparent” refereeing: “Tell him
not to bust our balls. Better yet, I’ll talk to him
and put him in his place.”

The referee selectors are crucial. They need to pass
the message on to the officials that, if they make
mistakes that hurt your club, their careers will be
going nowhere.


EXHIBIT THREE

Moggi talking to Paolo Bergamo, one of Serie A’s two
referee selectors, complaining about Pierluigi Collina
and Roberto Rosetti, the officials, whose refereeing
was too “objective”.

If you don’t punish Rosetti and Collina, all the other
refs will feel entitled to do as they please. We don’t
need them breaking our balls!” Some officials will
nevertheless be independent and want to apply the laws
of the game. When that happens, you need to get tough.
Assaulting them after a game and locking them in the
referees’ dressing-room is one way to do it.


EXHIBIT FOUR

Pietro Ingargiola, a referee assessor, talking to
Tullio Lanese, head of the Italian referees’
association, after Juventus’s controversial 2-1 defeat
away to Reggina: “He [Moggi] came into the
dressing-room and was furious. He berated Paparesta
[the referee], stuck his finger in his face and then
locked him in there! It was crazy! Don’t worry,
though, I’ m not saying a thing about it. I don’t
remember anything and I didn’t see anything. But it
was mad, I tell you!” You will need parts of the media
on your side as well. It is a good idea to pick out a
few favourite influential journalists and give them
little treats: gossip, bits of news, interviews with
your star players. The press can be very servile. Use
the carrot-and-stick approach to get your way. In
exchange, they will attack your enemies and defend
your friends.


EXHIBIT FIVE

Moggi talking to Aldo Biscardi, presenter of a popular
football show, after a 0-0 draw between Juventus and
AC Milan, in which Andriy Shevchenko was
controversially denied a penalty appeal: “You need to
lay off the referee in this one. You either say the
referee was correct in his decision or you don’t show
the images at all and gloss over it.”

Over time, referees will get wind of this system and
realise that it is in their best interest to help you
out. Making favourable decisions is one way they can
help, but there are other effective ways they can do
this. One painless method is booking players who are
one yellow card away from suspension the week before
they face your team.


EXHIBIT SIX

In the 2004-05 season, 25 players picked up their bans
in the week immediately before they faced Juventus.
Tony Damascelli, a journalist, congratulating Moggi
after two Bologna defenders received bookings that
banned them from facing Juventus the next weekend:
“Great job! You took out half their back four!” Sadly,
some foolish people will get wind of your methods. You
need to make it clear that, while you accept that not
everyone will like you, those who speak out need to be
punished.


EXHIBIT SEVEN

Moggi speaking to Antonio Giraudo, the Juventus chief
executive, after Zdenek Zeman, the Lecce manager, had
complained that Moggi was running Italian football:
“We need to deal with him, we need to beat him up. We
need to make him haemorrhage, that’s what we need to
do. We’ll invent something, we’ll mess with some of
his players.”

Control over players is essential. To do this, create
a football agency and get your 32-year-old son to run
it. Hand-pick partners for him, such as the scions of
powerful families.


EXHIBIT EIGHT

Moggi’s son, Alessandro, was the chief executive of a
company called GEA World, whose partners were Chiara
Geronzi, the daughter of Cesare Geronzi, the head of
Capitalia, Italy’s second-biggest bank, and the
financial institution of choice for many clubs who
relied on its credit to stay afloat, and Giuseppe De
Mita, a former Lazio official and son of a former
Italian Prime Minister. GEA represents about 200
footballers and managers in the Italian game.

Once you have set up your agency, your control over
smaller clubs will be consolidated. You can now place
players and managers where you please, knowing they
will do your bidding.


EXHIBIT NINE

Stefano Argilli, the former Siena midfield player
voted player of the year in 2004-05, was forced to
leave the club last summer. “Our new manager was GEA,
our general manager was GEA, half the team was GEA,”
he said. “It was clear to me that if I wanted to stay,
I would have to sack my agent and join GEA as well.”

If you do all this, people will fear you and respect
you. Your enemies will feel powerless.


EXHIBIT TEN

Mazzini, the vice-president of the Italian FA,
speaking to Moggi: “You’re the boss of the Italian
game! You own Serie A!”
 

AlexTheGreat

Senior Member
May 10, 2006
999
Question1: did Moggi tell how to work this out for saving Dalla Valle's ass? and what make people think they were talking about football not something else like moggi would introduce some good doc to look after Dalla Valle's heart disease?
Question2: did moggi ask the ref to hurt juve's opponent?
Question3: ..........
Question10: if i meet a inter fan whom i hate most and i call him a shit in the hole. is he really a shit in the hole?

i dont want to frustrate you my inter friend, but the fact is i can find 10,000 reasons to explain these scenarios, and prove moggi is innocent.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,517
BFC82 said:
For your reading pleasure....this is what your club is up to while you all are celebrating.
What exactly are you smoking, squire? :smoke:

Because whatever it is, can you share it?

Maybe you don't read English too well, but have you actually bothered to look at all the "sky is falling" posts around here? Most everyone wants the coach dead and shipped off to Siberia, people are decrying deceitful club management, most expect demotion to at least Serie B, and if anything the end of the season was noticeably marked by a complete lack of celebration.

Given that it looks like you haven't posted here for the past couple of weeks before you decided to squeeze out this turd here, you've left us with no choice but to chalk this up to cluelessness and ignorance. But don't flatter yourself.

Yet please do go ahead and tell all your nerazzuri comrades (where you must spend your other 363 days a year with) that we're drunk partying our asses off. It will make it that much sweeter for us when Inter finds a way to lose the Scudetto next season to Siena.
 

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