Don't you think this is just a little bit weird ... I mean I know you love Baggio, so do I, but to cheer for a coach who would bring him back to the team is just --> 
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I have always thought that Mate does not like Trapaptoni solely because he did pick Baggio not that Italy played rubbish under Trapatoni and i have been proved right
Let me get this straight Mate, you think Italy will perform better if Baggio was in the side, the same way that Brescia are near the top of the league because Baggio is performing wonders
To want your country to lose becasue you want a certain player back in your Nt is beyond my comprehension
If Baggio at his best could not win the wc with Italy , what makes you think the player i saw yesterday against Como will do a single thing against the best Nts in the world
Let me get this straight Mate, you think Italy will perform better if Baggio was in the side, the same way that Brescia are near the top of the league because Baggio is performing wonders
To want your country to lose becasue you want a certain player back in your Nt is beyond my comprehension
If Baggio at his best could not win the wc with Italy , what makes you think the player i saw yesterday against Como will do a single thing against the best Nts in the world
I cheer Del Neri cause Chievo is the team who is playing better in serie A also if I know that it will be difficolt to make the NT playing like Chievo cause he won't have so many days to teach them his ideas... The toughts about Roby come after it 
Anycase I just hope Trapattoni leave cause he touched the ground and nobody can do worst... I don't know if Del Neri is the best choice but I like him and in anycase... everybody is better than Crap!
Anycase I just hope Trapattoni leave cause he touched the ground and nobody can do worst... I don't know if Del Neri is the best choice but I like him and in anycase... everybody is better than Crap!
I don't like Trapattoni for 10000000000000000000000000000 of reason, not peaking Baggio is just one of this... and I can't find one lonely reason to like him onestly...
I don't think that Italy wuould win the WC with Baggio cause he is grate but he can't win the matches alone and Italy could maybe do something better with Korea but had in anycase no chances vs Spain, Germany and Brasil... to low level... I was so pist (like whole Italy) about the decision of leaving him home but seeing how it went I perfectly know that he couldn't make any difference... I'm not stupid
I don't think that Italy wuould win the WC with Baggio cause he is grate but he can't win the matches alone and Italy could maybe do something better with Korea but had in anycase no chances vs Spain, Germany and Brasil... to low level... I was so pist (like whole Italy) about the decision of leaving him home but seeing how it went I perfectly know that he couldn't make any difference... I'm not stupid
Cosmi words, all the magazines campains and all all the fans sits in and polemics happened before the WC....
After the WC nobody said anymore that the worst Trap mistake was to exclude Baggio cause also if, of course, it could not go worst like it went with him is under everybody eyes that Italy could not go anywhere in the WC... others team where just way better than us :-(
After the WC nobody said anymore that the worst Trap mistake was to exclude Baggio cause also if, of course, it could not go worst like it went with him is under everybody eyes that Italy could not go anywhere in the WC... others team where just way better than us :-(
I have never liked Trapatoni as I am not interested in defensive managers and they do not come more defensive than him
I just said after reading your posts, it seemed his biggest crime to you is not picking Baggio and it seems the new manager will meet your approval if he picks Baggio
I do think however Italy played just as bad under Sacchi and Maldini and unfortunaltely for Italy the managers always pick players who run about and can win the ball , instead of those who can actually play
I just said after reading your posts, it seemed his biggest crime to you is not picking Baggio and it seems the new manager will meet your approval if he picks Baggio
I do think however Italy played just as bad under Sacchi and Maldini and unfortunaltely for Italy the managers always pick players who run about and can win the ball , instead of those who can actually play
Not taking Baggio was not the reason why Italy did not win the WC, of course... we had no chance anycase...
This was not his biggest "tecnical" mistake but of course it was a mistake 4 his relationship with Italian fans and media... not 4 the choice (that is understandable) but 4 the way he acted...
I will tell you how it went...
-When Roby got injured Trapattoni sayed... "I can't belive he will miss the WC, I'm so sorry, but I belive in miracles and I'm here waiting 4 him" (just to have consenses from media and fans but probably he was sure he wuouldn't make it)
-When he knew Roby was ready to play last matches he said... "let's see how he will do if he will schow he's ok I'll consider to take him..." (probably sure about he was not ready and so unable to make anything)
-When he scored 2 goals the day he played his first game and played all lasts match saving Brescia who was really in the schit he said "I do not belive in miracles, Baggio is injured and I can't count on him"
That looked like a cheat and pissed off all Italy... In that period in which coaches could change the players lists happened everything all the media and the fans started attakking him, Datasport collected more than 10000 signatures, peaple scowed up in the FIGC palace contesting him, all the TV schow and magazines where just speaking about it and in few days he really transformed himself (in the eyes of people) from a trusteble and nice person (he really was) from someone from who everybody was waiting 4 failing.... He used to made a tour "Trap days" in which he went (during big events) from city to city to meet fans (and usually he was claimed or at list not booed) and few days after he sayed the names of the player 4 the WC he went to Bologna "future schow" but he had to run away cause he was insulted and attakked from everybody and it was a whole "Baggio in Nazionale, Trapattoni a lavorare" and he even had to close his website messageboard cause it was full of hate-mail... of peaple who wanted Baggio (and all this before the WC did not even started)
All this did not make him change idea and he confirmed his decision but media and peaple did not stop blaming him. Every day there was a whole "Corriere dello sport" page dedicated to pissed fans emails who was titoled "thank you anycase, Roby" and every day on the newspapers, during the WC, was remarked that in Japan and Korea nobody gave a damn about Totti and company but just wanted to know about Roby... that in the stadiums was full of banners 4 Roby... that no referre will never give a red card to Roby... that FIFA gave us Moreno cause they also was pist about leaving him out... ecc...
So I can say that it was a "political" mistake... cause he ruind all the atmosphere around him and around the NT in general...
Than I'm sure that the results were the same also with Baggio (and -knowing how it went- I'm glad he was not part of the WC) but I'm also sure that if he didn't "fight" with the country, excluding who he perfectly knew was the first everybody wanted, and cheating everybody saying all those staff the critics where less "personal"... and more "respecting him"... also if he had no chance to avoid tham after he ridicolized ower Nation that way...
I hope you understood what I mean even if my english is so and so
The choice to exlude Baggio is not a scandal itself (he played just 3 matches afer the knee surger) but he made it in the worst way... cause, before he knew he really could play the lasts matchs, he cheated (trying to have consenses) saying all those things... and than he took Del Vecchio and Di Livio
Anycase this is just one of his thousend of mistakes he made (I'm not gonna write them cause you probably think the same and cause it will take 4 ever)... and just the fact to be kicked out from Korea is enought to be fired...
I know Sacchi and Maldini played bad too...
Infact Sacchi arrived in the WC final playing awfully, just cause of Baggio, but the first time he stopped have results (Euro 1996) he left.... Maldini lost vs France in 1998 (a better result than Trap) and he left...
Trap lost vs Korea and he still there :fero: that's the difference!!!
He has to leave too!!!!!
Whoever will be the next can't do worst... if he will be a young coatch with a strong personality and an attakking mentaliy it's better... Del Neri is like this... Cosmi is like this... Zoff isn't like this, but anycase I will drink champagne if he will be the one cause it mean Trap is not in the Azzurri bench anymore
P.S.: the fact that I remark when a coach like Roby or fighted with him is normal... cause Italy is my Nation and Baggio my favorite player, but of course is not the the reason why I approve or not a coach... I repeat: in this moment I will approve nearly everybody, even Tom cause I don't want to see the "died man walking" anymore and I'm so afraid I will see him again for the match Italy-Turkey...
This was not his biggest "tecnical" mistake but of course it was a mistake 4 his relationship with Italian fans and media... not 4 the choice (that is understandable) but 4 the way he acted...
I will tell you how it went...
-When Roby got injured Trapattoni sayed... "I can't belive he will miss the WC, I'm so sorry, but I belive in miracles and I'm here waiting 4 him" (just to have consenses from media and fans but probably he was sure he wuouldn't make it)
-When he knew Roby was ready to play last matches he said... "let's see how he will do if he will schow he's ok I'll consider to take him..." (probably sure about he was not ready and so unable to make anything)
-When he scored 2 goals the day he played his first game and played all lasts match saving Brescia who was really in the schit he said "I do not belive in miracles, Baggio is injured and I can't count on him"
That looked like a cheat and pissed off all Italy... In that period in which coaches could change the players lists happened everything all the media and the fans started attakking him, Datasport collected more than 10000 signatures, peaple scowed up in the FIGC palace contesting him, all the TV schow and magazines where just speaking about it and in few days he really transformed himself (in the eyes of people) from a trusteble and nice person (he really was) from someone from who everybody was waiting 4 failing.... He used to made a tour "Trap days" in which he went (during big events) from city to city to meet fans (and usually he was claimed or at list not booed) and few days after he sayed the names of the player 4 the WC he went to Bologna "future schow" but he had to run away cause he was insulted and attakked from everybody and it was a whole "Baggio in Nazionale, Trapattoni a lavorare" and he even had to close his website messageboard cause it was full of hate-mail... of peaple who wanted Baggio (and all this before the WC did not even started)
All this did not make him change idea and he confirmed his decision but media and peaple did not stop blaming him. Every day there was a whole "Corriere dello sport" page dedicated to pissed fans emails who was titoled "thank you anycase, Roby" and every day on the newspapers, during the WC, was remarked that in Japan and Korea nobody gave a damn about Totti and company but just wanted to know about Roby... that in the stadiums was full of banners 4 Roby... that no referre will never give a red card to Roby... that FIFA gave us Moreno cause they also was pist about leaving him out... ecc...
So I can say that it was a "political" mistake... cause he ruind all the atmosphere around him and around the NT in general...
Than I'm sure that the results were the same also with Baggio (and -knowing how it went- I'm glad he was not part of the WC) but I'm also sure that if he didn't "fight" with the country, excluding who he perfectly knew was the first everybody wanted, and cheating everybody saying all those staff the critics where less "personal"... and more "respecting him"... also if he had no chance to avoid tham after he ridicolized ower Nation that way...
I hope you understood what I mean even if my english is so and so
The choice to exlude Baggio is not a scandal itself (he played just 3 matches afer the knee surger) but he made it in the worst way... cause, before he knew he really could play the lasts matchs, he cheated (trying to have consenses) saying all those things... and than he took Del Vecchio
and Di Livio Anycase this is just one of his thousend of mistakes he made (I'm not gonna write them cause you probably think the same and cause it will take 4 ever)... and just the fact to be kicked out from Korea is enought to be fired...
I know Sacchi and Maldini played bad too...
Infact Sacchi arrived in the WC final playing awfully, just cause of Baggio, but the first time he stopped have results (Euro 1996) he left.... Maldini lost vs France in 1998 (a better result than Trap) and he left...
Trap lost vs Korea and he still there :fero: that's the difference!!!
He has to leave too!!!!!
Whoever will be the next can't do worst... if he will be a young coatch with a strong personality and an attakking mentaliy it's better... Del Neri is like this... Cosmi is like this... Zoff isn't like this, but anycase I will drink champagne if he will be the one cause it mean Trap is not in the Azzurri bench anymore
P.S.: the fact that I remark when a coach like Roby or fighted with him is normal... cause Italy is my Nation and Baggio my favorite player, but of course is not the the reason why I approve or not a coach... I repeat: in this moment I will approve nearly everybody, even Tom
cause I don't want to see the "died man walking" anymore and I'm so afraid I will see him again for the match Italy-Turkey...
Maybe the reason why I hate him :fero: more is cause he's so arrogant and never admit his mistakes.... after the match vs Galles 4 example he said: "Italy played good"...
WHAT????
He always try to find to justify himself.... before the referee, after Totti who was missing, ecc... if you never admid your mistakes you will never improuve
WHAT????
He always try to find to justify himself.... before the referee, after Totti who was missing, ecc... if you never admid your mistakes you will never improuve
++ [ originally posted by mate ] ++
Maybe the reason why I hate him :fero: more is cause he's so arrogant and never admit his mistakes.... after the match vs Galles 4 example he said: "Italy played good"...
WHAT????
He always try to find to justify himself.... before the referee, after Totti who was missing, ecc... if you never admid your mistakes you will never improuve
Maybe the reason why I hate him :fero: more is cause he's so arrogant and never admit his mistakes.... after the match vs Galles 4 example he said: "Italy played good"...
WHAT????
He always try to find to justify himself.... before the referee, after Totti who was missing, ecc... if you never admid your mistakes you will never improuve
I have to disagree... crap wingers?? we didnt even have crap!!! so i dont think u can say he has crap wingers. he had no wingers at all!!!
The problem with Italy is not Trap. The problem in Italy is only REINFORCED by Trap.
The problem: we are not versatile enough. All italy sit and do is defend, defend, defend.
We need hi-quality wide players for attacks along the wings, creative playmakers, for plays along the middle, fast strikers, to strike like lightning, strong attackers who can compete with big burly defenders, visionary midfielders with their sublime passes, tough-tackling anchors and defensive mids who hold the attackers at bay. Just defenders arent good enough.
At the moment Italy is not producing anything of that quality in any crucial departments.
When was the last time we produced a supremely gifted player with creative and visionary talent like del Piero??
France, Holland, England(ok not england), Argentina, Brazil, etc have developed stars in not just that, but many other departments. We are not. Instead we rely on foreigners like Camoranesi, Nedved, Rivaldo, rui Costa, etc to hold our club-teams up.
Cassano was our last, and by far biggest 'hi-profile' starlet of late.
What the hell is he lighting up?? Can any of our youngsters light up the pitch on the highest level like Aimar, Riq, Ronaldinho etc? Aimar socred a hat-trick last weekend I think. Can any of our players claim a hat-trick to their name at the highest level?
Pirlo and Di Vaio are our only decent prospect so far.
Jesus H. Christ what do we want? Clifford the big red dog to fall from the sky and rescue us with beautiful football??
Who says we cant play defensive and not be attractive? Anyone remember Holland-Italy in euro 2000? Wasnt that attractive??
We dont need to play like that, but as long as we have our soul with us, and keep our style alive, I think its ok to play any way we feel like, whether it be Chievo-style, Lazio-style, or whatever.
Trap is the master of defence, but we lack in offence... why not have Ale-di Vaio partnered up in attack? They seem effective. But what about our providers? Nedved and Camo?? Oh. Right, they're not Italian. Have we got any Italians who can do the same job? Oh. We dont?
Well thats our problems then isnt it??
The problem with Italy is not Trap. The problem in Italy is only REINFORCED by Trap.
The problem: we are not versatile enough. All italy sit and do is defend, defend, defend.
We need hi-quality wide players for attacks along the wings, creative playmakers, for plays along the middle, fast strikers, to strike like lightning, strong attackers who can compete with big burly defenders, visionary midfielders with their sublime passes, tough-tackling anchors and defensive mids who hold the attackers at bay. Just defenders arent good enough.
At the moment Italy is not producing anything of that quality in any crucial departments.
When was the last time we produced a supremely gifted player with creative and visionary talent like del Piero??
France, Holland, England(ok not england
), Argentina, Brazil, etc have developed stars in not just that, but many other departments. We are not. Instead we rely on foreigners like Camoranesi, Nedved, Rivaldo, rui Costa, etc to hold our club-teams up. Cassano was our last, and by far biggest 'hi-profile' starlet of late.
What the hell is he lighting up?? Can any of our youngsters light up the pitch on the highest level like Aimar, Riq, Ronaldinho etc? Aimar socred a hat-trick last weekend I think. Can any of our players claim a hat-trick to their name at the highest level?
Pirlo and Di Vaio are our only decent prospect so far.
Jesus H. Christ what do we want? Clifford the big red dog to fall from the sky and rescue us with beautiful football??
Who says we cant play defensive and not be attractive? Anyone remember Holland-Italy in euro 2000? Wasnt that attractive??
We dont need to play like that, but as long as we have our soul with us, and keep our style alive, I think its ok to play any way we feel like, whether it be Chievo-style, Lazio-style, or whatever.
Trap is the master of defence, but we lack in offence... why not have Ale-di Vaio partnered up in attack? They seem effective. But what about our providers? Nedved and Camo?? Oh. Right, they're not Italian. Have we got any Italians who can do the same job? Oh. We dont?
Well thats our problems then isnt it??
In a way you are right guys... 4 Italy press Buffon is the best goalkeeper of the planet, Nesta the best defender, Totti the best foward, ecc... and (apart from Buffon) that's ridicolous... I don't think Brazil, Argentina, Spain, France, England, and many others team envy us any player...
But still ower players (also the bench) are better than Korean, Yugoslavian and Whalsh... in those teams ther's even players of premierschip second division and the Italian and Spanisch "serie B" owers at least are all in seria A... the point is that we loose with everybody also with team who has objectly inferior players... so the coach must have some responsability...
And anycase when a NT sucks you can't sell every players and buy new ones from Brazil or from other countrys... so the only solution to try to change the situation is to change the coach....
But still ower players (also the bench) are better than Korean, Yugoslavian and Whalsh... in those teams ther's even players of premierschip second division and the Italian and Spanisch "serie B" owers at least are all in seria A... the point is that we loose with everybody also with team who has objectly inferior players... so the coach must have some responsability...
And anycase when a NT sucks you can't sell every players and buy new ones from Brazil or from other countrys... so the only solution to try to change the situation is to change the coach....
Of course!!!
I remember that everybody were so happy to know he was the new coach after Zoff cause he had experience he won with Juve, with Inter and with Bayern... but if you look at it he probably won cause in those periods he had way the better players, but he always played defendivly like he do now.
If you have a team like Brazil you can do whatever you want just put them in the field and you will win... If you have a mid-range team (like -we have to admit- Italy is now) you have to make them play togeder like 4 example Chievo, who have no champions but playing amazingly can win also with teams paked with superstars like Milan...
I remember that everybody were so happy to know he was the new coach after Zoff cause he had experience he won with Juve, with Inter and with Bayern... but if you look at it he probably won cause in those periods he had way the better players, but he always played defendivly like he do now.
If you have a team like Brazil you can do whatever you want just put them in the field and you will win... If you have a mid-range team (like -we have to admit- Italy is now) you have to make them play togeder like 4 example Chievo, who have no champions but playing amazingly can win also with teams paked with superstars like Milan...
unfortunately it sounds to me that a team success is unpredictable .
i remind myself brazil NT which had the slightest chance of success before WC 2002 ,but at the end they took the cup.
now if you survay italy NT ,you pick up they were one of those
complete teams like argantina and france but they went back
empty handed.
so i cann't force myself to be sure about good future for azzurri
after trap resigns.
i remind myself brazil NT which had the slightest chance of success before WC 2002 ,but at the end they took the cup.
now if you survay italy NT ,you pick up they were one of those
complete teams like argantina and france but they went back
empty handed.
so i cann't force myself to be sure about good future for azzurri
after trap resigns.