'Murica! (202 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

How did i read it wrong? Is there an alternative way of reading it?

I say pain focussed torture doesnt work,, however, waterboarding focusses on the fear of dying so works.

Ergo, fear of death is much more severe.

I dont see how you could turn that upsidedown

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How did i read it wrong? Is there an alternative way of reading it?

You said "The reason why waterboarding is effective, is because its not pain related. there is no such thing as fear of the pain.

Its the effect you are drowning, feeling of actually going to die."

I'll rephrase


the reason waterboarding is so effective, is because the fear/sensation you have isnt pain, but dying, which is much stronger and has a much much bigger phychological impact.

 

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[DAiDEViL]

I say pain focussed torture doesnt work,, however, waterboarding focusses on the fear of dying so works.

And the stronger the fear, the more likely are you gonna lie to get out of the situation, resulting in useless answers.

 

[Zacheryah]

And the stronger the fear, the more likely are you gonna lie to get out of the situation, resulting in useless answers.

Thats where the difference lies.

You react instinctively when you are dying, not rationally

 

[DAiDEViL]

Thats where the difference lies.

You react instinctively when you are dying, not rationally

Let's say this is true and you do react instinctively, what are you gonna say if you are innocent/know nothing?

Would you keep on insisting that you know nothing, or would you just tell them whatever they want to hear because you fear they'll waterboard you again?

I have a feeling my instinct would tell me to play along.

 

[Zacheryah]

someone who knows nothing will lie and they'll seek into it and notice its a lie

someone who does know something, will tell it, and they'll find out

 

[Enron]

So americans buying from mexico pay for the wall.


Is there another, say alternative ( ), way of looking at it, cause i dont see it

Nope. And Mexico is our number two export partner, so I definitely see a retaliation tariff on their end. IE. Trump forces the American people to pay twice.

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That means Americans are paying for the wall. Mexicans don't even indirectly pay for it in that scenario.

Yep. Repubs are at it again. Whiney little bitches. "We wanna cut the deficit, so lets cut funding to the arts and build a $70 billion wall".

 

[il brutto]

someone who knows nothing will lie and they'll seek into it and notice its a lie

someone who does know something, will tell it, and they'll find out

Come on now, if only it was that easy. Torture will result in inconsistent results because there is no way of knowing what actually is truthful information and what is not.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

someone who knows nothing will lie and they'll seek into it and notice its a lie

someone who does know something, will tell it, and they'll find out

 

[Enron]

someone who knows nothing will lie and they'll seek into it and notice its a lie

someone who does know something, will tell it, and they'll find out

You really need to be water boarded.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Come on now, if only it was that easy. Torture will result in inconsistent results because there is no way of knowing what actually is truthful information and what is not.

Why do you torture? You want the truth. What does it result in? A huge amount of lies and false information, and a small percentage of useful information (...your intelligence should have had before, if it would work how it's supposed to be)

Think of the amount of people and time it takes to filter out the bullshit, i mean you HAVE to check all the info you get, because you can't be sure what's a lie and what's the truth. I have no numbers, but i suppose 9 times out of 10 it's bullshit, which also means you just tortured 9 innocent people because, hey! they could have known something

How is this ok? Almost as good as to imprison people without trial.

 

[swag]

If somebody was waterboarding me, I'd make up as much shit as possible to stay alive.

 

[Ocelot]

Yep. Repubs are at it again. Whiney little bitches. "We wanna cut the deficit, so lets cut funding to the arts and build a $70 billion wall".

Cutting PBS & co. hurts the (already neglected) sector massively, and does next to nothing to reduce spending.

PBS is 0.012% of the budget ffs. This does not make sense on any rational level.

And was there ever any other way Trump was gonna "make Mexico pay" than tariffs? I've never heard any other possibilities ever since he came up with that ludicrous promise.


Oh yeah, and @Nzoric, blocking TTIP is actually a massive positive for Europeans coming out of this whole mess, probably the only point I agree with Trump (for different reasons and I'd have preferred to see Sanders make the same decision, but I do recognize good steps taken by Trump - there's just so few of them).

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I really hate this rhetorical device, but I've never found it to apply to anything more than here: How the fuck is it the year 2017 and we've got the leader of the so called Free World publicly praising freakin' torture?

 

[Zacheryah]

If somebody was waterboarding me, I'd make up as much shit as possible to stay alive.

Torture like practiced in ithe past in asia is about breaking the mental resilience.
Apparently, this is most strongly achieved by simulating a freightening death experience

They mostly used hallucinogens to get there, and some nasty slow maiming of the body.

From what i've read about it, if you are truely thinking you are experiencing your own death, they'll neglect the first things you say, and the induced shock takes away your reasoning and you will give up what you have.


You are all thinking its like having your fingers twisted out. Thats awfull pain, but not exactly the same. Even in massive pain you can still somewhat reason before passing out.




Which is why maiming torture, doesnt actually work very reliably to say the least

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Cutting PBS & co. hurts the (already neglected) sector massively, and does next to nothing to reduce spending.

PBS is 0.012% of the budget ffs. This does not make sense on any rational level.

And was there ever any other way Trump was gonna "make Mexico pay" than tariffs? I've never heard any other possibilities ever since he came up with that ludicrous promise.


Oh yeah, and @Nzoric, blocking TTIP is actually a massive positive for Europeans coming out of this whole mess, probably the only point I agree with Trump (for different reasons and I'd have preferred to see Sanders make the same decision, but I do recognize good steps taken by Trump - there's just so few of them).

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I really hate this rhetorical device, but I've never found it to apply to anything more than here: How the fuck is it the year 2017 and we've got the leader of the so called Free World publicly praising freakin' torture?

How the fuck is it 2017 where you have radical muslims blowing up shit left and right and have had a president for 8 years who wont even call it by its name : "radical islam" ?

Meanwhile, people were beeing waterboarded during his reign, but thats okay, he didnt say it out loud



Its not good to say such a thing out loud. But lets not pretent for a second that Trump and Bush were the only politicians that will ever allow waterboarding while americans die in terrorist attacks by radical islam.

 

[Enron]

Cutting PBS & co. hurts the (already neglected) sector massively, and does next to nothing to reduce spending.

PBS is 0.012% of the budget ffs. This does not make sense on any rational level.

And was there ever any other way Trump was gonna "make Mexico pay" than tariffs? I've never heard any other possibilities ever since he came up with that ludicrous promise.


Oh yeah, and @Nzoric, blocking TTIP is actually a massive positive for Europeans coming out of this whole mess, probably the only point I agree with Trump (for different reasons and I'd have preferred to see Sanders make the same decision, but I do recognize good steps taken by Trump - there's just so few of them).

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I really hate this rhetorical device, but I've never found it to apply to anything more than here: How the fuck is it the year 2017 and we've got the leader of the so called Free World publicly praising freakin' torture?

I thought he would tax remittances. But that would look really bad.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Torture like practiced in ithe past in asia is about breaking the mental resilience.
Apparently, this is most strongly achieved by simulating a freightening death experience

They mostly used hallucinogens to get there, and some nasty slow maiming of the body.

From what i've read about it, if you are truely thinking you are experiencing your own death, they'll neglect the first things you say, and the induced shock takes away your reasoning and you will give up what you have.


You are all thinking its like having your fingers twisted out. Thats awfull pain, but not exactly the same. Even in massive pain you can still somewhat reason before passing out.




Which is why maiming torture, doesnt actually work very reliably to say the least

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How the fuck is it 2017 where you have radical muslims blowing up shit left and right and have had a president for 8 years who wont even call it by its name : "radical islam" ?

Meanwhile, people were beeing waterboarded during his reign, but thats okay, he didnt say it out loud



Its not good to say such a thing out loud. But lets not pretent for a second that Trump and Bush were the only politicians that will ever allow waterboarding while americans die in terrorist attacks by radical islam.

Waterboarding? This is not 2002, i have no idea where you get that info from but if i were you id stop using Thai source

 

[king Ale]

How the fuck is it 2017 where you have radical muslims blowing up shit left and right and have had a president for 8 years who wont even call it by its name : "radical islam" ?

Meanwhile, people were beeing waterboarded during his reign, but thats okay, he didnt say it out loud

Its not good to say such a thing out loud. But lets not pretent for a second that Trump and Bush were the only politicians that will ever allow waterboarding while americans die in terrorist attacks by radical islam.

Because Islam doesn't have a radical and a peaceful side to it. It can't even evolve to take various shapes and meanings. To help you understand it better, take US foreign policies for example. Unlike Islam, which is a constant concept, they can have evil and not as much evil sides to them depending on who makes them. Some can take lives of thousands of innocents, leaving a whole region in mess for generations to come, while some can only lead to displacement of thousands of civilians. Your hero Bush is a war criminal who is particularly responsible for some of those evil ones. But welcome to 2017, where for your "kind" using the term radical islam is a bigger deal than invading nations, killing and droning them. You truly disgust me. I'm not using labels btw, I'm telling you how i feel about you and the idiotic bs you spew.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Because Islam doesn't have a radical and a peaceful side to it. It can't even evolve to take various shapes and meanings. To help you understand it better, take US foreign policies for example. Unlike Islam, which is a constant concept, they can have evil and not as much evil sides to them depending on who makes them. Some can take lives of thousands of innocents, leaving a whole region in mess for generations to come, while some can only lead to displacement of thousands of civilians. Your hero Bush is a war criminal who is particularly responsible for some of those evil ones. But welcome to 2017, where for your "kind" using the term radical islam is a bigger deal than invading nations, killing and droning them. You truly disgust me. I'm not using labels btw, I'm telling you how i feel about you and the idiotic bs you spew.

Wonderful as always, Hoori

 

[Post Ironic]

Are Answers given under torture reliable? I highly doubt it.



https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/nov/04/2

It's why during the Spanish Inquisition and the European Witch Hunts, people would just name family members, neighbours, and anyone they knew as co-conspirators just to get the pain to stop...

Torture rarely does more than elicit false confession.

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Because Islam doesn't have a radical and a peaceful side to it. It can't even evolve to take various shapes and meanings. To help you understand it better, take US foreign policies for example. Unlike Islam, which is a constant concept, they can have evil and not as much evil sides to them depending on who makes them. Some can take lives of thousands of innocents, leaving a whole region in mess for generations to come, while some can only lead to displacement of thousands of civilians. Your hero Bush is a war criminal who is particularly responsible for some of those evil ones. But welcome to 2017, where for your "kind" using the term radical islam is a bigger deal than invading nations, killing and droning them. You truly disgust me. I'm not using labels btw, I'm telling you how i feel about you and the idiotic bs you spew.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

So...a 20% tariff on Mexican imports. Might as well tax the lower and middle class directly then.

 

[ZoSo]

Echo chambers