'Murica! (188 Viewers)

[Juliano13]

And how do you achieve this with no labor exactly? I'm assuming we've sent all the police, prosecutors, lawyers, judges and prison staff home because we couldn't pay them, is that correct?

Who says you achieve it with no labour? I'm not the one who said "free". It is economically efficient and in my opinion fair for whoever consumes a product or service to pay for it. The police protect everyone. So do prosecutors and judges in the case of criminal trials, and in most other cases the cost of the trial is paid by the losing side. Lawyers, except in the case of public lawyers in criminal cases, are paid by their clients. And by the way, there has been private prosecution and still is in some places.

The point is, when you buy a hot dog, you pay for it because you eat it. When you buy a car, you pay for it because you drive it. When you get a hooker, you pay her because you fuck her. Same for schools and doctors and medications. Education and healthcare are services that the free market is perfectly capable of providing and much better than the government. There is no market failure here.

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I could bet all my possessions that Juliano dropped out of high school.

And what are your credentials?

 

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[Ocelot]

Who says you achieve it with no labour? I'm not the one who said "free". It is economically efficient and in my opinion fair for whoever consumes a product or service to pay for it. The police protect everyone. So do prosecutors and judges in the case of criminal trials, and in most other cases the cost of the trial is paid by the losing side. Lawyers, except in the case of public lawyers in criminal cases, are paid by their clients. And by the way, there has been private prosecution and still is in some places.

The point is, when you buy a hot dog, you pay for it because you eat it. When you buy a car, you pay for it because you drive it. When you get a hooker, you pay her because you fuck her. Same for schools and doctors and medications. Education and healthcare are services that the free market is perfectly capable of providing and much better than the government. There is no market failure here.

Oh come on, you gotta be trolling on this one.

I mean okay, the free market can provide healthcare - significantly less efficient than a single payer system, but it can be done. But education? Seriously?

Notice I didn't say that's what Sanders says. That's what his followers say. But yes Sanders has stated time and again he wants free education and healthcare for all. Not once does he mention how to pay for it all, which is the status quo when it comes to these clowns.

Sanders nor most of his followers (you can find plenty of idiots among the supporters of every political figure/movement) never pretend that the healthcare or education would be free. He mostly talks about it as either a "single payer" system, or simply about providing healthcare for everyone when I've heard him too.

I could bet all my possessions that Juliano dropped out of high school.

Nah, he's pretty well educated.

Not that that makes his opinions any more valid.

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That is debatable and I don't agree. People have the right to freedom of speech, liberty, due process and so on, but they don't have the right to get somebody else's labour for free. Doctors and teachers have the right to work for money. And if they work for money, then it's not free. So, what you are saying is that it's a basic right to have your education and healthcare paid by somebody else.

Forget about basic rights for a moment, it is economically very efficient for people to have access to health care & education.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Who says you achieve it with no labour? I'm not the one who said "free". It is economically efficient and in my opinion fair for whoever consumes a product or service to pay for it. The police protect everyone. So do prosecutors and judges in the case of criminal trials, and in most other cases the cost of the trial is paid by the losing side. Lawyers, except in the case of public lawyers in criminal cases, are paid by their clients. And by the way, there has been private prosecution and still is in some places.

The point is, when you buy a hot dog, you pay for it because you eat it. When you buy a car, you pay for it because you drive it. When you get a hooker, you pay her because you fuck her. Same for schools and doctors and medications. Education and healthcare are services that the free market is perfectly capable of providing and much better than the government. There is no market failure here.

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And what are your credentials?

 

[Hængebøffer]

No.

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I'm worried about you, Andries. You miss way too many points these days.

Of course you are. Is it better if I call you an anarcho capitalist?

 

[Juliano13]

Oh come on, you gotta be trolling on this one.

I mean okay, the free market can provide healthcare - significantly less efficient than a single payer system, but it can be done. But education? Seriously?



Sanders nor most of his followers (you can find plenty of idiots among the supporters of every political figure/movement) never pretend that the healthcare or education would be free. He mostly talks about it as either a "single payer" system, or simply about providing healthcare for everyone when I've heard him too.



Nah, he's pretty well educated.

Not that that makes his opinions any more valid.

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Forget about basic rights for a moment, it is economically very efficient for people to have access to health care & education.

I may be wrong, but I assume you believe the market is more efficient when it comes to cars, toothbrushes and iphone applications. Can you explain why it's less efficient in providing healthcare and why it cannot provide education at all? Are there no private schools? Aren't almost all of the best universities in the world, according to almost all rankings, private?

 

[Seven]

I may be wrong, but I assume you believe the market is more efficient when it comes to cars, toothbrushes and iphone applications. Can you explain why it's less efficient in providing healthcare and why it cannot provide education at all? Are there no private schools? Aren't almost all of the best universities in the world, according to almost all rankings, private?

Experience shows us it leads to a very expensive health insurance that will refuse to pay out. As I am insurance lawyer I'd probably benefit from a free market system, but imo you need basic healthcare to be offered by the state.

 

[Juliano13]

Experience shows us it leads to a very expensive health insurance that will refuse to pay out. As I am insurance lawyer I'd probably benefit from a free market system, but imo you need basic healthcare to be offered by the state.

Which experience? I guess you mean America, but I disagree. The comparison between the healthcare systems Europe and USA is a lot more complicated than just "USA spends more on healthcare, therefore its better than Europe."

Refuse to pay? I don't know which country you work in, but that's a huge generalisation. I'm not saying nobody ever gets screwed over by the insurance companies, but come on..

 

[Seven]

Which experience? I guess you mean America, but I disagree. The comparison between the healthcare systems Europe and USA is a lot more complicated than just "USA spends more on healthcare, therefore its better than Europe."

Refuse to pay? I don't know which country you work in, but that's a huge generalisation. I'm not saying nobody ever gets screwed over by the insurance companies, but come on..

It's already a problem in the USA. What the fuck do you think insurance companies are? Charities?

Besides it's easy for them to refuse. What are you going to do? Sue? And you can't even pay your medical bills. Good luck finding a lawyer.

 

[Enron]

It's already a problem in the USA. What the fuck do you think insurance companies are? Charities?

Besides it's easy for them to refuse. What are you going to do? Sue? And you can't even pay your medical bills. Good luck finding a lawyer.

It is against the economic model of the insurance industry to pay.

 

[Seven]

It is against the economic model of the insurance industry to pay.

Exactly. So why on Earth would you build your healthcare system on that? It works for stuff like cars because the odds are high they won't have to pay and the bills are relatively low. Everyone needs healthcare and the bills are high. You can't rely on insurance companies to offer affordable health insurance / care for all. It simply isn't feasible for them.

Nevermind the elderly or cancer survivors. These people would be deemed uninsurable.

 

[Enron]

Exactly. So why on Earth would you build your healthcare system on that? It works for stuff like cars because the odds are high they won't have to pay and the bills are relatively low. Everyone needs healthcare and the bills are high. You can't rely on insurance companies to offer affordable health insurance / care for all. It simply isn't feasible for them.

Well, you wouldn't build your healthcare system on that sort of model, but the insurance industry would.

 

[Seven]

Well, you wouldn't build your healthcare system on that sort of model, but the insurance industry would.

Yeah they would. To me it's insane you have posters here defending this system.

 

[Enron]

Yeah they would. To me it's insane you have posters here defending this system.

It's a decent system, but it's not very fair.

 

[Enron]

Mexico has a mostly privatized education system.

 

[swag]

When their teachers aren't being rounded up into vans.

 

[Enron]

When their teachers aren't being rounded up into vans.

The sad thing is that those students would have graduated to become a huge part of the problem as far as the education system down here.

But what I was alluding to is that Mexico has a few of the best universities in the world, but they also have a lot of uneducated and illiterate people. Seems like a model we should emulate.

 

[Ocelot]

Mexico has a mostly privatized education system.

Higher education system or from primary schools onwards?

 

[swag]

The sad thing is that those students would have graduated to become a huge part of the problem as far as the education system down here.

But what I was alluding to is that Mexico has a few of the best universities in the world, but they also have a lot of uneducated and illiterate people. Seems like a model we should emulate.

We're getting there.

It is funny to notice the reverse perceptions in other places where private school means you're a moron and public school means you're an elitist.

 

[Enron]

Higher education system or from primary schools onwards?

Primary schools. There are some public options, but they're pretty horrible. So either you go to a private school or you don't get an education.

The higher education system is similar to most developed nations. With state universities and private universities.

 

[Ocelot]

Primary schools. There are some public options, but they're pretty horrible. So either you go to a private school or you don't get an education.

The higher education system is similar to most developed nations. With state universities and private universities.

With the state paying them an amount of money per student I suppose?