'Murica! (178 Viewers)

[Hængebøffer]

why

Because it is not just some vague ideas.
It's an idealistic utopia, though - just like the free market.

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The forum is acting weird. Don't know why there's a smiley in my post.

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That's far from being against competition in general, at least the deodorant quote, not sure what exactly you're referring to other than that. He didn't even add anything in the vain of wanting to intervene through public policies, it's just about questioning society's priorities.

If that's enough to qualify as communist, than I do understand why Western Europeans are communist to you too.

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That's a pretty good comparison actually.

Except that Berlusconi actually got something done.

 

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[Ocelot]

Except that Berlusconi actually got something done.

What do you mean?

And Trump would get "things done" too, question is what things.

 

[icemaη]

He is not a conservative and was naturally aligned with Democrats before, but only as status quo business affiliation relationship rather then politically.

But he is first and foremost a completely retarded case of extreme populism. He will say whatever it takes to further his cause of getting elected / getting the center stage. He just wants to dominate the rhetoric and tap into the disgruntled voices, which are full of fear and hate, which makes ideal for a vulture like him, play up patriotism and it's all the foreigners and alien enemy religions fault, I doubt he means most of it.


But deep down he must mean some of it because it comes easy to him, and also he has over two decades as a businessman of making dumb insulting comments about Jews, Mexicans, blacks and women. So small winded stereotyping and bigotry comes easy to him it seems. Doubt it's enough to govern him as an individual or politically, but enough to see it as viable tactic to dupe the right wing extremists to vote for him. Sheer populism.


That's why I disagree with Seven he is as bad as Le Pen, Geert Wilders or the other genuine right wing extremists leaders that are clear proud bigots. Difference is America right now is bit more crazy and offers opportunity to Trump that he would never get on most main European nations. Except for Italy, Trump = Berlusconi...

Does Berlusconi want to bang his daughter too?

 

[Hængebøffer]

What do you mean?

And Trump would get "things done" too, question is what things.

Trump will never win. As much as you can dislike Berlusconi, he actually did some political work. It's in a country which always has been a political mess. Remember when the center-left won?

 

[Ocelot]

Trump will never win. As much as you can dislike Berlusconi, he actually did some political work. It's in a country which always has been a political mess. Remember when the center-left won?

Honestly you could say the US are a political mess in many ways too - in other ways of course.
But doesn't Trump also do political work? What do you mean by political work?

Btw I know that there are a lot of differences between Trump & Berlusconi too, but still curious.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Honestly you could say the US are a political mess in many ways too - in other ways of course.
But doesn't Trump also do political work? What do you mean by political work?

Btw I know that there are a lot of differences between Trump & Berlusconi too, but still curious.

I just completely disagree that it's a good comparison. Trump is a gimmick - Berlusconi was not.

 

[swag]

Errr, I wouldn't so easily dismiss Trump's viability. Many electorates have a hangover regret moment of "I elected who last night??" US included.

 

[Juliano13]

That's far from being against competition in general, at least the deodorant quote, not sure what exactly you're referring to other than that. He didn't even add anything in the vain of wanting to intervene through public policies, it's just about questioning society's priorities.

If that's enough to qualify as communist, than I do understand why Western Europeans are communist to you too.

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

 

[Hængebøffer]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

How old are you?

 

[Martin]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

Either that or you took something incredibly minor and insignificant and plugged it right into the gaping whole in your world view where you wanted it to be, allowing you to conclude that he's a communist.

Which do you think is more likely?

 

[Juliano13]

Either that or you took something incredibly minor and insignificant and plugged it right into the gaping whole in your world view where you wanted it to be, allowing you to conclude that he's a communist.

Which do you think is more likely?

Obviously I think that what I wrote is more likely.

 

[Nenz]

Yep, shows that he's a opportunist above all.

And that he is decidedly different from the right wing movement in Europe, or even (in yet another way) from most of the other Republican candidates.

He is a classic scheming opportunist. He made an empire out of it.

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"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

Whether candidates are extreme right or left, they'll ultimately be drawn closer to the center if eventually elected. Bernie Sanders would have trouble legislating without compromising.

 

[Juliano13]

He is a classic scheming opportunist. He made an empire out of it.

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Whether candidates are extreme right or left, they'll ultimately be drawn closer to the center if eventually elected. Bernie Sanders would have trouble legislating without compromising.

True. The good thing is that Sanders is more likely to win the lottery than to get elected.

 

[Bjerknes]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

He's basically a cult leader, really. His followers are obsessed with having free everything and creating a eco-totalitarianism state -- a lot of them are spoiled rich kids who don't have a clue about how anything works. I mean really, free education, free healthcare, free housing... as if these things just create themselves or Bernie can magically create it out of thin air. That's the definition of a cult.

 

[swag]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

I didn't read that quote as a verdict on the free market. (After all, psychological studies show that the plethora of choice in the free market has a direct correlation with population unhappiness.) Rather, I would frame Sanders' with scarcity model thinking.

It's the model that everything in the planet is finite, closed system. And as as long as one person in the world can drive a BMW, five other people have to go starving. I mean I get his death-by-endless-consumption-growth stuff. But what we have here is also the model of thinking that things that are good for consumers are inherently all bad things for the poor or the environment. Which is really a stunted way of thinking. It will prevent you from investing in things that can break out of a current cycle.

If breaking out of such cycles wasn't possible, our city streets would be covered in two feet of horse manure and central London would be covered in enough black soot to bury it like Pompeii.

 

[Juliano13]

I didn't read that quote as a verdict on the free market. (After all, psychological studies show that the plethora of choice in the free market has a direct correlation with population unhappiness.) Rather, I would frame Sanders' with scarcity model thinking.

It's the model that everything in the planet is finite, closed system. And as as long as one person in the world can drive a BMW, five other people have to go starving. I mean I get his death-by-endless-consumption-growth stuff. But what we have here is also the model of thinking that things that are good for consumers are inherently all bad things for the poor or the environment. Which is really a stunted way of thinking. It will prevent you from investing in things that can break out of a current cycle.

If breaking out of such cycles wasn't possible, our city streets would be covered in two feet of horse manure and central London would be covered in enough black soot to bury it like Pompeii.

My point is, this line of thinking leads to a rejection of the free market system. The connection with communism is obvious.

 

[Ocelot]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

There are many reasons why I think Sanders is closer to a communist than a Social Democrat and why his proposals would be a disaster. But that is a very long discussion. I focused on this quote because the main difference between left and right is the degree of belief in the free market. Social Democrats believe in the free market overall. They just say there are a lot of inefficiencies and market failures, so the government must step in to prevent monopolies and redistribute some of the wealth. Sanders goes way beyond that. This quote shows he doesn't even like competition. Large choice of products is a virtue of the free market and beneficial to the consumers.

Again, he's not even saying that the state should intervene in any of this. And no he simply doesn't on the bolded part, there is no reason whatsoever, at none that I know, to believe that Sanders would want to do away with the market principle as the basis of the economic system.

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My point is, this line of thinking leads to a rejection of the free market system. The connection with communism is obvious.

There's a slight connection, yes. Of course social democracy and communism, just as there are connections between just about any economic system, but that's not enough to call Sanders communist.

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He's basically a cult leader, really. His followers are obsessed with having free everything and creating a eco-totalitarianism state -- a lot of them are spoiled rich kids who don't have a clue about how anything works. I mean really, free education, free healthcare, free housing... as if these things just create themselves or Bernie can magically create it out of thin air. That's the definition of a cult.

...you do realise how ridiculous you sound here? I mean that's not at all what Sanders says. At all.

 

[Juliano13]

Again, he's not even saying that the state should intervene in any of this. And no he simply doesn't on the bolded part, there is no reason whatsoever, at none that I know, to believe that Sanders would want to do away with the market principle as the basis of the economic system.

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There's a slight connection, yes. Of course social democracy and communism, just as there are connections between just about any economic system, but that's not enough to call Sanders communist.

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...you do realise how ridiculous you sound here? I mean that's not at all what Sanders says. At all.

I really think I explained it clearly and any further explanation would involve a lot of repetition. If you're not getting it, you're not getting it.

 

[Seven]

True. The good thing is that Sanders is more likely to win the lottery than to get elected.

Sanders is rapidly gaining popularity. He'll be a contender.

 

[DAiDEViL]

"You can't just continue growth for the sake of growth in a world in which we are struggling with climate change and all kinds of environmental problems. All right? You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country. I don't think the media appreciates the kind of stress that ordinary Americans are working on."

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