'Murica! (125 Viewers)

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
In reality there is no clear dividing line between socialism, social democracy and even communist, at least economically. Its a continuum and every system is a mixed system. But if we have to give a label to Sanders, he's much closer to communism than to social democracy.
How? Sanders has no plans of large scale public ownership of the industry or means of production in general.

By your definition Roosevelt is as communist as you can get.
 

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Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,017
How? Sanders has no plans of large scale public ownership of the industry or means of production in general.

By your definition Roosevelt is as communist as you can get.
Read some of his interviews and you will see his opposition towards competition in general. The deodorant statements come to mind. Sanders more to the left than Roosevelt for me.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,342
That's why I said closet communists. In reality there is no clear dividing line between socialism, social democracy and even communist, at least economically. Its a continuum and every system is a mixed system. But if we have to give a label to Sanders, he's much closer to communism than to social democracy.
The only country in western Europe where communism still means something is Italy. And even there it's a vast minority. All of Europe is pretty much rightwing liberal these days.

Marine Le Pen, or all the other right wing extremists in Europe are just as dangerous to society imo, and share a few of their ideas, but they also represent an entirely different strand of politics. Le Pen & co. seem serious at least, Trump is just...ridiculous.
Perhaps you could even say they're more dangerous, because they hide their ridiculousness so well. They pose as serious politicians, when in reality they are just as bad as Trump.
 

Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,017
The only country in western Europe where communism still means something is Italy. And even there it's a vast minority. All of Europe is pretty much rightwing liberal these days.



Perhaps you could even say they're more dangerous, because they hide their ridiculousness so well. They pose as serious politicians, when in reality they are just as bad as Trump.
do tell
 

Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,017
No. The road to a communist utopia is through socialism. USSR never got past socialism.
The communism in the USSR/Eastern Europe and so on is the only possible communism. The socialism leads to communism story was invented to explain why it was so shitty. "Yeah, it's a shithole here now but just you wait. We'll get there."

btw, thanks for the last few comments which kinda prove my point.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
The communism in the USSR/Eastern Europe and so on is the only possible communism. The socialism leads to communism story was invented to explain why it was so shitty. "Yeah, it's a shithole here now but just you wait. We'll get there."

btw, thanks for the last few comments which kinda prove my point.
Bollocks. Only possible communism? Do you even know how stupid that sounds? I'm no expert on this, but you clearly know nothing about communism.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,501
Trump was a democrat before he decided to run as a republican. He has said so himself and has contributed more to democrats, including hilary. Just something to think about.
He is not a conservative and was naturally aligned with Democrats before, but only as status quo business affiliation relationship rather then politically.

But he is first and foremost a completely retarded case of extreme populism. He will say whatever it takes to further his cause of getting elected / getting the center stage. He just wants to dominate the rhetoric and tap into the disgruntled voices, which are full of fear and hate, which makes ideal for a vulture like him, play up patriotism and it's all the foreigners and alien enemy religions fault, I doubt he means most of it.


But deep down he must mean some of it because it comes easy to him, and also he has over two decades as a businessman of making dumb insulting comments about Jews, Mexicans, blacks and women. So small winded stereotyping and bigotry comes easy to him it seems. Doubt it's enough to govern him as an individual or politically, but enough to see it as viable tactic to dupe the right wing extremists to vote for him. Sheer populism.


That's why I disagree with Seven he is as bad as Le Pen, Geert Wilders or the other genuine right wing extremists leaders that are clear proud bigots. Difference is America right now is bit more crazy and offers opportunity to Trump that he would never get on most main European nations. Except for Italy, Trump = Berlusconi...
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Read some of his interviews and you will see his opposition towards competition in general. The deodorant statements come to mind. Sanders more to the left than Roosevelt for me.
That's far from being against competition in general, at least the deodorant quote, not sure what exactly you're referring to other than that. He didn't even add anything in the vain of wanting to intervene through public policies, it's just about questioning society's priorities.

If that's enough to qualify as communist, than I do understand why Western Europeans are communist to you too.

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Except for Italy, Trump = Berlusconi...
That's a pretty good comparison actually.
 

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