'Murica! (186 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

nope btw

i know just messing with you

I bet our opinions on taxes are very different, but no way am I going to pay taxes three times . Especially not if my family already provides food and shelter for about 50 people.

my take on taxes is pretty simple, yes i am more of a chicago school of econ guy but above all i just want the thing to be clear and transparent, the bigger it gets the trickier that becomes, so i say fuck paying taxes if i dont know where they are going.

 

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[Seven]

I mean I understand that referring to precedential cases can be saving time and resources, but it also means that once a wrong, or very controversial and arguabel decision is made, it harms not only the case in question, but a lot of other cases in the future as well.

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In some cases it seems to me as if such a legal system virtually gives judges what is basically legislative power by setting precedents.

Oh it most certainly does. With the European Court of Justice for example (which is a bit of a mix between civil and common law) that has meant an ever expanding list of powers for the European Union. Powers that were nowhere to be found in the founding treaties, regulations or guidelines. And with those cases they suddenly became law.

So yeah, there are quite a few drawbacks. I don't like it because, as you say, you give pseudolegislative power to judges. I think it's also why the US Supreme Court really overstepped its boundaries in the Obergefell v. Hodges decision. It did what many Supreme / High / European / International courts do. The US Supreme Court realised it had no power to make the call, but made an easy reference to due process and equal protection clauses and then decided these basic rights were violated and thus the Supreme Court was able to decide the issue after all.

 

[Valerio.]

What if she sells it to you on the cheap?

Not allowed at least here in Italy. But my exp on different stuff cause even here you're taxed about inheritance but nothing high as Seven has in Belgium.
Tough here in Italy people do that to avoid wifes stealing your house or not including the house in inheritance etc etc.
If you sell you house worth 200k euro for 10k the judge will value the contract as void as this was a fake and not a real deal.

 

[Seven]

Not allowed at least here in Italy. But my exp on different stuff cause even here you're taxed about inheritance but nothing high as Seven has in Belgium.
Tough here in Italy people do that to avoid wifes stealing your house or not including the house in inheritance etc etc.
If you sell you house worth 200k euro for 10k the judge will value the contract as void as this was a fake and not a real deal.

I thought Italy basically got rid of inheritance tax? The reason had to do with it causing a lot of fraud cases.

Stuff is basically the same in Belgium, the contract won't stand.

 

[Ocelot]

Some of it is also very weird. Take capital gains tax for example. In Belgium we don't have it when selling shares. But some countries do. To me that makes 0 sense. Because it's not as if the government is going to help you when your shares lose in worth.

Well technically the government does help you if you lose your wealth, from a certain level on.

And hardly any taxes are simple "you give and receive back directly" taxes, that principle applies mostly to social insurance systems. they're used to pay things that wouldn't be able to be raised by such schemes, education, infrastructure, research, other things if you want to go further (affordable housing for example).

 

[GordoDeCentral]

in the US, people use trusts to avoid estate taxes, not sure if that could work in european countries

 

[Ocelot]

no it doesnt in our context, the federal govt cannot levy a property tax

Technicalities.

 

[Seven]

Well technically the government does help you if you lose your wealth, from a certain level on.

And hardly any taxes are simple "you give and receive back directly" taxes, that principle applies mostly to social insurance systems. they're used to pay things that wouldn't be able to be raised by such schemes, education, infrastructure, research, other things if you want to go further (affordable housing for example).

My government helps me out when I'm in the hospital (and it does a pretty decent job at that). It also helps me out when I'm bankrupt.

When I work however, the government does its best to really make life miserable for me. Either you're super rich or you're super poor. Anything in between and you're fucked when it comes to benefits (apart from the medical care).

It's nice to know that I won't die if I run out of money. But it's sad that they take away so much money from those who work.

 

[Ocelot]

in the US, people use trusts to avoid estate taxes, not sure if that could work in european countries

Depends on the country I think, in Austria it largely works (we call it foundations, but should be the same thing).

It's essentially tax evasion though, shouldn't be legal imo.

 

[Seven]

in the US, people use trusts to avoid estate taxes, not sure if that could work in european countries

They are being used in the UK. In Belgium it would be tricky.

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Depends on the country I think, in Austria it largely works (we call it foundations, but should be the same thing).

It's essentially tax evasion though, shouldn't be legal imo.

It's tax avoidance imo. Which is legal.

 

[Ocelot]

My government helps me out when I'm in the hospital (and it does a pretty decent job at that). It also helps me out when I'm bankrupt.

When I work however, the government does its best to really make life miserable for me. Either you're super rich or you're super poor. Anything in between and you're fucked when it comes to benefits (apart from the medical care).

It's nice to know that I won't die if I run out of money. But it's sad that they take away so much money from those who work.

That's because the majority of taxes is levied from working income, directly or indirectly, and of course (thankfully) not from the lowest 30% of incomes, while capital gains & profits are hardly taxed at all, especially if tax consultants are used. In my opinion that only deters from employment, but it's difficult to change nationally.

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They are being used in the UK. In Belgium it would be tricky.

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It's tax avoidance imo. Which is legal.

I said it's legal, but it shouldn't be

 

[Seven]

That's because the majority of taxes is levied from working income, directly or indirectly, and of course (thankfully) not from the lowest 30% of incomes, while capital gains & profits are hardly taxed at all, especially if tax consultants are used. In my opinion that only deters from employment, but it's difficult to change nationally.

It does. It really, really does. Social stigma is probably what causes most people to work in Belgium these days.

But I think I deserve a basic income. If I work, I deserve to get a net gain for that work.

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I said it's legal, but it shouldn't be

Yeah, but you called it tax evasion, which I argue it's not (tough case, but for now it seems my side is winning in most countries).

 

[Ocelot]

Oh it most certainly does. With the European Court of Justice for example (which is a bit of a mix between civil and common law) that has meant an ever expanding list of powers for the European Union. Powers that were nowhere to be found in the founding treaties, regulations or guidelines. And with those cases they suddenly became law.

So yeah, there are quite a few drawbacks. I don't like it because, as you say, you give pseudolegislative power to judges. I think it's also why the US Supreme Court really overstepped its boundaries in the Obergefell v. Hodges decision. It did what many Supreme / High / European / International courts do. The US Supreme Court realised it had no power to make the call, but made an easy reference to due process and equal protection clauses and then decided these basic rights were violated and thus the Supreme Court was able to decide the issue after all.

Exactly, the US supreme court, particularly in the last years has exerted some massive power given that it is a body that isn't really elected by the people in any way. Though maybe that has always been the case in US history, looking at Brown vs. BoE & similar stuff. Don't my history well enough in that regard.

In any case, I don't think that's a particularly brilliant system in a democratic sense.

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Yeah, but you called it tax evasion, which I argue it's not (tough case, but for now it seems my side is winning in most countries).

Fine

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Technicalities.

hows it technicalities, this is relating back to the bernie sanders thing who last i checked was running for president, additionally i know for sure those city/county taxes are not buying F16s for israel or 10k toilets for the pentagon, i know exactly where my sales, property taxes are going and if i dont agree with it i can move to a different city or state. Theres also a city not too far where i am now that has no property taxes.

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My government helps me out when I'm in the hospital (and it does a pretty decent job at that). It also helps me out when I'm bankrupt.

When I work however, the government does its best to really make life miserable for me. Either you're super rich or you're super poor. Anything in between and you're fucked when it comes to benefits (apart from the medical care).

It's nice to know that I won't die if I run out of money. But it's sad that they take away so much money from those who work.

it is a system that rewards bad choices/behavior more than it does good one

 

[Wings]

Is there a difference between inheritance & gifts regarding taxation?

 

[Wings]

Not allowed at least here in Italy. But my exp on different stuff cause even here you're taxed about inheritance but nothing high as Seven has in Belgium.
Tough here in Italy people do that to avoid wifes stealing your house or not including the house in inheritance etc etc.
If you sell you house worth 200k euro for 10k the judge will value the contract as void as this was a fake and not a real deal.

How is taxation in Italy?

 

[Seven]

Is there a difference between inheritance & gifts regarding taxation?

In Belgium there is, but it mainly has to do with rates and stuff. Both are taxed though.

 

[swag]

in the US, people use trusts to avoid estate taxes, not sure if that could work in european countries

Yup. I have one with my wife. It's b.s., but you have to do it.

 

[Martin]

Yup. I have one with my wife. It's b.s., but you have to do it.

the Valence Foundation?

 

[Seven]

the Valence Foundation?

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