'Murica! (205 Viewers)

[Seven]

First time I'm watching the coverage of the US election. It's like watching a Milan vs Inter game, unable to cheer for any of them you can atleast hope the stadium crumbles onto the pitch and kills both teams.

Just like with Milan-Inter you can't stand either but if you're forced to choose the choice is easy.

Trump truly is the Inter of presidential candidates. And given his lying and fondness for conspiracy theories that comparison is remarkably apt.

 

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[CrimsonianKing]

I don't support Trump, and I'm not American.
I'd rather see Trump in power cause he'd cause more damage. I got no love for the States.

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You just want to watch it burn, eh?

 

[Nzoric]

Just like with Milan-Inter you can't stand either but if you're forced to choose the choice is easy.

Trump truly is the Inter of presidential candidates. And given his lying and fondness for conspiracy theories that comparison is remarkably apt.

I despise Trump, but Hillary is behind one of the worst foreign policy decisions I have seen. A decision which has plunged the entire middle east into chaos and enabled the European far right to reclaim influence. I think Trump is the only imaginable candidate who makes me prefer Hillary.

 

[campionesidd]

Is this accurate, if so, Trump is toast. There's no way he wins without Florida.

http://www.slate.com/votecastr_election_day_turnout_tracker.html

 

[Seven]

I despise Trump, but Hillary is behind one of the worst foreign policy decisions I have seen. A decision which has plunged the entire middle east into chaos and enabled the European far right to reclaim influence. I think Trump is the only imaginable candidate who makes me prefer Hillary.

Cruz too. But he's the devil incarnate tbh.

 

[campionesidd]

I despise Trump, but Hillary is behind one of the worst foreign policy decisions I have seen. A decision which has plunged the entire middle east into chaos and enabled the European far right to reclaim influence. I think Trump is the only imaginable candidate who makes me prefer Hillary.

Hillary is a neo-con like hawk, for sure, but I find it ridiculous to blame her for what's happening in Syria and Libya.

 

[Nzoric]

Hillary is a neo-con like hawk, for sure, but I find it ridiculous to blame her for what's happening in Syria and Libya.

Its undisputable, but you can go about it anyway you want.

 

[Ocelot]

Its undisputable, but you can go about it anyway you want.

She didn't help, but she's far far away from being the main factor, wasn't even the main reason behind the US getting involved.

And "one of the worst FP decisions" is just a hyperbole.

 

[Nzoric]

She didn't help, but she's far far away from being the main factor, wasn't even the main reason behind the US getting involved.

And "one of the worst FP decisions" is just a hyperbole.

I'm not arguing that Obama stood idly by while Clinton got involved, but there is a lot to indicate that she was the main advocate for Libya. She just about burst into a little dance when she got the news that Gaddafi was killed. As for Syria

And no, I'm not saying Wikileaks wouldn't have found a tonne of shit on Trump had they bothered to check.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Indisputable? Libya was mostly a French English intervention with nato backing

 

[Nzoric]

edit: Why is it a hyperbole? Granted, for the US it's not one of the worst FP decisions as it has had little effect on them. For me and for Europe it was downright detrimental.

But this discussion is a bit too simple, I apologise for raising it this way. As you add layers the blame is of course shifted from being squarel on Clinton shoulders to the European hawks who backed her up and the rest of the white house - I will probably agree with most of what you post here, as I often share your opinions on these subjects, but this doesn't excuse her war mongering, completely disregarding human casualties and geopolitical stability.

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Indisputable? Libya was mostly a French English intervention with nato backing

Yes, indisputable. The Libya intervention was a political victory for her. And neither the British nor French would've dared to disrupt the region to this extent without clearing it with the White House. Minor interventions such as CAR and Congo are solely within French interest realm and I'm sure they are allowed to do whatever they feel like in these situations, Libya and the Middle East are not.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

She is establishment she will toe the line, Bush set the tone of the new post cold war foreign policy, this will continue regardless of who gets voted in

 

[Sir Miss-A-Lot]

Cruz too. But he's the devil incarnate tbh.

This is something i feel is overlooked in my country, whenever discussing Trump. Ted Cruz would have been much, much worse. Also remember my dad told me some Wall Street research guy that my dad had a meeting with told him to sell off all US stock if Cruz was elected.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

edit: Why is it a hyperbole? Granted, for the US it's not one of the worst FP decisions as it has had little effect on them. For me and for Europe it was downright detrimental.

But this discussion is a bit too simple, I apologise for raising it this way. As you add layers the blame is of course shifted from being squarel on Clinton shoulders to the European hawks who backed her up and the rest of the white house - I will probably agree with most of what you post here, as I often share your opinions on these subjects, but this doesn't excuse her war mongering, completely disregarding human casualties and geopolitical stability.

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Yes, indisputable. The Libya intervention was a political victory for her. And neither the British nor French would've dared to disrupt the region to this extent without clearing it with the White House. Minor interventions such as CAR and Congo are solely within French interest realm and I'm sure they are allowed to do whatever they feel like in these situations, Libya and the Middle East are not.

It was never squarely on her, even as green lighting it's not her call, this fetish to blame shit on her is pretty amusing

 

[Ocelot]

edit: Why is it a hyperbole? Granted, for the US it's not one of the worst FP decisions as it has had little effect on them. For me and for Europe it was downright detrimental.

But this discussion is a bit too simple, I apologise for raising it this way. As you add layers the blame is of course shifted from being squarel on Clinton shoulders to the European hawks who backed her up and the rest of the white house - I will probably agree with most of what you post here, as I often share your opinions on these subjects, but this doesn't excuse her war mongering, completely disregarding human casualties and geopolitical stability.

Come on, even when we're talking about that very specific situation, 2003 was much much worse, and basically indefensible. But that's a pretty stupid discussion, sorry I started that

In general, I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake, and it's definitely concerning that, probably, one of the proponents of that mistake is now gonna get much more power. But honestly, that mistake was also understandable at that time in my opinion - for me, the situation surrounding the whole fiasco is really everything here, for example, even without any US/NATO intervention Syria & Libya would likely be places of pure chaos right now.

You're right though, in general we probably agree to a large extent, and her hawkishness is worrying me a lot. My main criticism of her overall, besides her habit of changing stances to suit public sentiment.

 

[Nzoric]

It was never squarely on her, even as green lighting it's not her call, this fetish to blame shit on her is pretty amusing

Fetish? You have me mixed up with the loons in here. She has stated several times herself that Libya was a political victory for her, her e-mails back the fact that she was trying to foster support for removing Assad as early as 2012. I'm not pinning anything on her that she wouldn't accept credit for with a big grin. Therein lies my issue with her. She's a war mongering cunt and future escalations of the Syria/Iraq situation will come from her, while it will be up to us Europeans to deal with the consequences. I honestly hope that she gets elected and not long after suffers health issues which render her incapable of holding public office.

 

[ZoSo]

Taking the country back to the good ol fifties. Where blacks were treated as shit, women were treated as donkeys and gays were shamed out of existence.

believing this will happen if trump wins

 

[Ocelot]

believing this will happen if trump wins

Well obviously no, because it's impossible. But it's exactly this general sentiment that his whole campaign is built around.

 

[ZoSo]

I never thought I'd say this, but maybe its a good thing.

Nationality:
Indian



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Well obviously no, because it's impossible. But it's exactly this general sentiment that his whole campaign is built around.

no it's not

 

[Post Ironic]

Well obviously no, because it's impossible. But it's exactly this general sentiment that his whole campaign is built around.

Not to mention that Zoso is the one constantly posting the Facebook comment style bullet point lists of Alex Jones infowar talking points on Clinton conspiracy theories.

Coming from him, rather amusing.