Mozilla Firefox or Opera, choose your browser. (10 Viewers)

[Martin]

vlat, I need your help

In opera, when I close a tab it jumps to the previously active tab. This is not what I want, I want the firefox behavior where a tab close sends me to the tab next to the one that was closed. How do I fix it?

Btw this is one of the things where Opera is different and doesn't provide a config setting for people who don't like their quirks.

 

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[JCK]

Also me, how to make Opera open a new tab without going to it, in FF you can right click open in new tab or simple ctrl+click will open a new tab without going to the newly opened tab?

 

[V]

Also me, how to make Opera open a new tab without going to it, in FF you can right click open in new tab or simple ctrl+click will open a new tab without going to the newly opened tab?

Middle click with your mouse on the link opens the tab in the background.

Martin hold on, I'm digging.

 

[Martin]

Anytime, vlat

 

[V]

OK, I did a little research and seems a lot of you FF switchers(not saying you are one ) are complaining about that feature. Personally I do VERY little customizations to Opera as I love the default behaviour. However, Opera is actually very configurable, you're just used to FF and solwing things with add-ons and extensions.

The default behaviour can't be changed it seems, closing a tab by pressing "x" or middle clicking the tab, closes the current tab and switches to the previously active tab. But there are a few ways to get what you want, the easiest being making a keyboard shortcut for that action or making a mouse gesture that will do it for you. I prefer the latter, mouse gestures make life so much easier. You do use mouse gesture, don't you?

Keyboard shortcut:
Preferences>Advanced>Shortcuts> under keyboard setup duplicate the default opera profile, now click edit. Under the application drop down menu either edit one of the numerous keyboard shortcuts or make a new one. Example for a new shortcut; Click new and in the first field enter "y ctrl" and in the second field write "Close clicked page & Switch to previous page", all without the quatation marks. Make another new shortcut for "x ctrl" and "Close clicked page & Switch to next page". Click OK and under keyboard setup make sure the new profile is highlighted and then confirm with OK.

Mouse Gestures
The option i prefer is making a mouse gesture doing the same thing. I can't live without mouse gestures, I don't think I've clicked on the back, forward buttons for ages. I simply press right click and move left to go back and right click and move right to go forward. There are a lot of other mouse gestures and they're all configurable to your liking.

Again Preferences>Advanced>Shortcuts> under mouse setup make a copy of Opera Standard profile and click edit. My recommendation is using the following gesture; edit the GestureUp to "Close clicked page & Switch to next page" instead of "Stop" and GestureDown to "Close clicked page & Switch to previous page". Click OK and again make sure the new profile is highlighted under mouse setup and confirm. Now when you right click and move your mouse down it will close the active page and go to the previous one and when you right click and move up it will close the active and go to the next page.

I know this will seem awfully complicated but it's not, you're just not accustomed to it. Think of your self as a Windows convert to Linux, it's not hard it's just different. Dig around the Advanced section of preferences, pretty much anything is configurable.

I seriously hope these actions are what you wanted, otherwise I lost 45 minutes of my life for something I'm never gonna use.

 

[Martin]

Opera is actually very configurable

The default behaviour can't be changed it seems

You make a very convincing argument

you're just used to FF and solwing things with add-ons and extensions.

Actually I don't, I use very few of them, they slow down FF a lot.


Ridiculously complicated workaround, but it worked, got it mapped now to the x key which is better than the mouse click anyway.

Btw when you say something is "configurable" that should also mean it's easy to configure, not just merely configurable. This workaround you gave me is like a discussion I had with some gnome people in the past about the ubercrap file open/save dialog in gtk. I was complaining that there was no way to just type in/paste the path and they said just hit Ctrl+L and tried to convince me that this was very intuitive. Even though there was no hint of it anywhere. Yeah, very intuitive my ass. Then they said "well if you'd followed gnome updates and release notes...". Idiots.

Anyway, Opera should bite the bullet and offer a "FF mode". That way they could actually get FF users who don't like their defaults. Just like the discussion we had about KDE apps for windows. You give people a chance to use it the way they want to, not force them into submission, that never works.

 

[Martin]

lol it still doesn't do what it's supposed to do. The point is that it should pick off tabs right-to-left. So if you have 9 tabs open and you're on #8 and close it, it should give you #9. If you're on #9 and close it it should give you #8. This is how FF works. Opera doesn't seem capable of it.

 

[V]

You make a very convincing argument

It is configurable but it's not Firefox and doesn't try to be. Why should they care to have this option the same way Firefox has? Some people prefer this behaviour, from what I've read on the forums, while looking for this workaround, only FF converts complained about it.

Ridiculously complicated workaround, but it worked, got it mapped now to the x key which is better than the mouse click anyway.

That's why it's called a workaround, if it were a option Opera devs cared about they would have integrated it under Prefs>Advanced>Tabs and made a 1-2-click solution. Who knows, maybe in the future they will. Glad you got it working anyway.

It seems complicated at first, but next time you want something like, say "open link in new page", I think it's gonna take you a second to to figure it out. Personally I never configured these shortcuts till now and I got the jist of it pretty quickly.

I don't know if you went and copy/pasted the command or went to write it in but there are probably hundreds of shortcut actions and as you write in the action field, each letter you press it opens a drop down menu offering choices and combinations.

Pretty intelligent solution IMO, they could have just made one huge drop down, listing all shortcut actions but it would look cluttered as hell.

Btw when you say something is "configurable" that should also mean it's easy to configure, not just merely configurable. This workaround you gave me is like a discussion I had with some gnome people in the past about the ubercrap file open/save dialog in gtk. I was complaining that there was no way to just type in/paste the path and they said just hit Ctrl+L and tried to convince me that this was very intuitive. Even though there was no hint of it anywhere. Yeah, very intuitive my ass. Then they said "well if you'd followed gnome updates and release notes...". Idiots.

Anyway, Opera should bite the bullet and offer a "FF mode". That way they could actually get FF users who don't like their defaults. Just like the discussion we had about KDE apps for windows. You give people a chance to use it the way they want to, not force them into submission, that never works.

You'd like that, wouldn't you? I don't think they're goal is to immitate FF, the goal is to provide the fastest browser(and it definetly is), secure and useable out of the box. They get all three with me, I change pretty much nothing from the default installation. I went straight away from IE to Opera, you went to FF, it's simply a thing of getting used to thing. I barely find my way around FF at all, honestly.

 

[V]

lol it still doesn't do what it's supposed to do. The point is that it should pick off tabs right-to-left. So if you have 9 tabs open and you're on #8 and close it, it should give you #9. If you're on #9 and close it it should give you #8. This is how FF works. Opera doesn't seem capable of it.

How does it not? The way I told you; while on 8 when you press ctrl+x it closes the current and goes to 9, while on 9 when you press ctrl+y it closes current and goes to 8. You just gotta use 2 shortcuts.

 

[Martin]

How does it not? The way I told you; while on 8 when you press ctrl+x it closes the current and goes to 9, while on 9 when you press ctrl+y it closes current and goes to 8. You just gotta use 2 shortcuts.

It's supposed to be the same shortcut, not two different ones. Think about files in a file manager. You delete the file at the bottom of the list, the selected file is now the one before it. You delete the next-to-last file and the selected file is now the last one. There aren't two different delete buttons based on whether you're on the last or next-to-last file. In other words the current selected file doesn't move up or down in the display, it just switches to match the new file it is hovering. Same with the tab behavior in FF I'm talking about.

 

[V]

It's supposed to be the same shortcut, not two different ones. Think about files in a file manager. You delete the file at the bottom of the list, the selected file is now the one before it. You delete the next-to-last file and the selected file is now the last one. There aren't two different delete buttons based on whether you're on the last or next-to-last file. In other words the current selected file doesn't move up or down in the display, it just switches to match the new file it is hovering. Same with the tab behavior in FF I'm talking about.

I'm aware it's not a single shortcut solution. Here, you can cry about it with the other FF users there.

Like one of the users there said:

Ah, so it is. I think you're going to have quite some trouble achieving that, it seems to be just one of the inherent differences between the browsers. Best get used to the way it works. I can't say I've found this to be missed from FF myself, not that I doubt the genuine request. Sorry.

 

[Martin]

It is configurable but it's not Firefox and doesn't try to be. Why should they care to have this option the same way Firefox has? Some people prefer this behaviour, from what I've read on the forums, while looking for this workaround, only FF converts complained about it.

Look, you're the one trying to sell Opera here. I tell you it has a flaw, you say "no it's not supposed to have that function". Okay, sales pitch failed, Opera's loss. If they had been more accommodating to people who don't like their defaults, I think they would have captured a huge chunk of the market years ago, way before FF even got started.

Opera wasn't even convincing enough to get me off IE, chew on that one.

It seems complicated at first, but next time you want something like, say "open link in new page", I think it's gonna take you a second to to figure it out. Personally I never configured these shortcuts till now and I got the jist of it pretty quickly.

You're missing the point, I'm not interested in an army of keyboard shortcuts. I'm not an emacs fan. All I want is the mouse behavior to be right, so for all the keyboard configurability that doesn't do anything for me.

I don't know if you went and copy/pasted the command or went to write it in but there are probably hundreds of shortcut actions and as you write in the action field, each letter you press it opens a drop down menu offering choices and combinations.

Pretty intelligent solution IMO, they could have just made one huge drop down, listing all shortcut actions but it would look cluttered as hell.

I agree it's neat. For people who like keyboard shortcuts.

You'd like that, wouldn't you? I don't think they're goal is to immitate FF, the goal is to provide the fastest browser(and it definetly is), secure and useable out of the box. They get all three with me, I change pretty much nothing from the default installation. I went straight away from IE to Opera, you went to FF, it's simply a thing of getting used to thing. I barely find my way around FF at all, honestly.

Right, but if your defaults are all different then obviously people aren't going to like that. Defaults are one of the crucial things in an application. And since I can't get it working the way I like, I'm just not gonna use it.


EDIT: Btw I'm not saying this tab behavior is inherently better or anything. It's just more practical to me, and Firefox does it the way I like it to.

EDIT2 from your opera forum:

I understand that it's cleverly thought out and there is a reason for it. However, it's also a deal-breaker. Until and unless this becomes an option you can set as default behavior I won't be switching to Opera as my primary browser. I read a lot of news sites, where I spawn all the stories I want to read from the main page (in background tabs) move to the right hand end and then read my way across. I close each story as I finish it and then I'm on the next one. I can't do this in Opera, because it always goes back to the page you spawned the tab from.

Deal breaker indeed. If Opera isn't bothered, fine we'll stick to FF.

 

[V]

Look, you're the one trying to sell Opera here. I tell you it has a flaw, you say "no it's not supposed to have that function". Okay, sales pitch failed, Opera's loss. If they had been more accommodating to people who don't like their defaults, I think they would have captured a huge chunk of the market years ago, way before FF even got started.

Opera wasn't even convincing enough to get me off IE, chew on that one.



You're missing the point, I'm not interested in an army of keyboard shortcuts. I'm not an emacs fan. All I want is the mouse behavior to be right, so for all the keyboard configurability that doesn't do anything for me.



I agree it's neat. For people who like keyboard shortcuts.




Right, but if your defaults are all different then obviously people aren't going to like that. Defaults are one of the crucial things in an application. And since I can't get it working the way I like, I'm just not gonna use it.


EDIT: Btw I'm not saying this tab behavior is inherently better or anything. It's just more practical to me, and Firefox does it the way I like it to.

EDIT2 from your opera forum:


Deal breaker indeed. If Opera isn't bothered, fine we'll stick to FF.

I'm not selling anything, I'm just saying it's a better browser. You may or may not agree, that's my opinion. There have been tests about it and in most of them Opera won because it loads pages the fastest of the lot. At the end of the day that's the most important thing.

They're different products, they're supposed to have different defaults and options. It's a matter of personal preference, that's all there is to it. I'm certain had you started using Opera before FF you wouldn't be having these headaches today, as I'm certainly not having them. Why is your FF behaviour better than this one? To each his own.

 

[V]

EDIT: Btw I'm not saying this tab behavior is inherently better or anything. It's just more practical to me, and Firefox does it the way I like it to.

EDIT2 from your opera forum:


Deal breaker indeed. If Opera isn't bothered, fine we'll stick to FF.

Doesn't have to be.

 

[Martin]

I'm certain had you started using Opera before FF you wouldn't be having these headaches today, as I'm certainly not having them. Why is your FF behaviour better than this one? To each his own.

I didn't. I used Opera way before FF even got started. And already then it didn't do things quite right. It's not a coincidence that FF got really huge and Opera didn't. And it's not because FF is so much better, it's not because it's open source and it's not even because of the extensions (although some people have really come to depend on them). It's because Opera hasn't been willing to adapt to the way non-Opera people use their browser. For a decade. They could have offered a pluggable config for instance, not to change all behavior but just some things to make it more familiar. But they don't want to. And that's why they are #4. And if Konqueror gets more traction with kde4 (and I think there's a good chance of that), they'll be #5. Because only Opera faithfuls like it, they're not building a user base at all.

 

[Martin]

Doesn't have to be.

He cites the same solution you did, which doesn't work. If I could write "close & go to previous/next" that would fix it. Tadaa. So close and no cigar.

 

[V]

He cites the same solution you did, which doesn't work. If I could write "close & go to previous/next" that would fix it. Tadaa. So close and no cigar.

Bottom line is Opera can do what you wanted, it only does it differently. Perhaps it's your own stubbornes that's preventing you to accept the solution. If you want it the same way as in Firefox, best continue using Firefox. The guy said he had a problem with it but he got used to it and in the end realised this way way was even more convinient for him. It's a win-win for him, it's not for you but you can't say it doesn't work. It does, just the way you and some others don't like it.

 

[Martin]

Bottom line is Opera can do what you wanted, it only does it differently. Perhaps it's your own stubbornes that's preventing you to accept the solution. If you want it the same way as in Firefox, best continue using Firefox. The guy said he had a problem with it but he got used to it and in the end realised this way way was even more convinient for him. It's a win-win for him, it's not for you but you can't say it doesn't work. It does, just the way you and some others don't like it.

Er, no it can't. If it "does what I want" but "does it differently" then it doesn't do what I want, those are mutually exclusive. What I want is the tab behavior given a mouse click. It doesn't do that, so it doesn't do what I want.

Nice that the guy got used to it, but that has no effect on my situation. I'm not convinced because someone changed his mind, that's not an argument.

 

[Martin]

Btw this is what user interface design is. It's just this petty and subtle and difficult, because people have strong feelings about the way they like to do things. There are tons of examples of bad user interfaces and not that many good ones. It's a demanding field. Users know that a slight difference doesn't matter if you use it once, but it makes a huge difference when you use it 234232 times. This is why software that just "feels right" (like certain parts of KDE, to me) is so awesome.

 

[V]

Er, no it can't. If it "does what I want" but "does it differently" then it doesn't do what I want, those are mutually exclusive. What I want is the tab behavior given a mouse click. It doesn't do that, so it doesn't do what I want.

Nice that the guy got used to it, but that has no effect on my situation. I'm not convinced because someone changed his mind, that's not an argument.

Had you specified in the first post you require a one-click-solution, identical to FF behaviour, I wouldn't have bothered finding this one.

You and that guy had the same problem, no? If it worked just for one guy, it makes it a viable solution . It doesn't work for you, sorry, tough luck, perhaps with a new version.