Moment of Clarity (7 Viewers)

[Rami]

Rami you are saying that all of those 3 books were sent by God,and you say it was changed later,hence you believe my bible is sent by God,ok explain me this.how God will let the book change?and let all the christians believe in something wrong,in a wrong religion without being notified??

"we all believe in the 3 religions" that line doesn't make sense at all Rami,how come you believe in all those three were the other two books are missing and changed?? that's something I don't understand..If you believe in Christian religion or judaism (misspelled) shouldn't you read it first so you decide later if youi believe or not? or it's forced to you to believe even without reading because you Quraan tells you so?

A valid question there Snoop, a clue that would answer your question is that you misinterpreted what I said.

The bible was sent by god but altered (tell me if you think it was altered or not, that would help in the discussion). But since it was altered not everything is directly from the original source i.e. god. There is some fabrications and untrue thing. We are commanded to believe in the books that they in their very original essence are sent by god. The prophet PBUH did not disallow reading the two books, BUT anything that conflicts Quran should be refuted, things that are similar believe in, and things that are not mentioned in the Quran (especially stories that do not have any conflict with the basic theological islamic belief) we neither deny them or take them for granted. But still the current bible we have nowadays IT IS sent from God but altered...is that so hard to understand?

Did I say " we believe in all three religions"? If so then its my bad! This is what I mean. We believe that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam come from the same source and basically preaches (or used to) preach the same thing. Monthesim. But that is not the case with christianity, and Judaism (I believe correct me if I am wrong). The keyword here is monothesim!

 

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[Zlatan]

btw, shouldn't Seven be unbanned? It's christmas for everyone. I'd like to have a chat with the guy.

Where are you from man?

 

[Vinman]

I've got about 10 minutes before work, so I'll be brief-

Christians believe in the same story regarding satan- he was once an angel, but disobeyed God

I think the reason the stories might change some in the Bible is because of the different translations from language to language. It was written in Hebrew, then translated to Greek, and later to many other languages, including English. Somewhere along the lines, messages can be altered a bit.

Also, many of the New Testament books were based on eyewitness accounts from different ppl as to what was happening during Jesus's life, and all the miracles he created.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Zlat, Brussels?

 

[Zé Tahir]

ma bad guys, I thought of satan different from iblis

 

[Rami]

I've got about 10 minutes before work, so I'll be brief-

Christians believe in the same story regarding satan- he was once an angel, but disobeyed God

I think the reason the stories might change some in the Bible is because of the different translations from language to language. It was written in Hebrew, then translated to Greek, and later to many other languages, including English. Somewhere along the lines, messages can be altered a bit.

Also, many of the New Testament books were based on eyewitness accounts from different ppl as to what was happening during Jesus's life, and all the miracles he created.

Its pretty much the same story true, but I would like to comment that in Islam Satan was not an angel, but a Jinn or demon. Lots of Muslims believe he was an angel, where it is just a misconception. It is stated explicitly in the Quran that he was Jinn.

 

[Snoop]

I've got about 10 minutes before work, so I'll be brief-

Christians believe in the same story regarding satan- he was once an angel, but disobeyed God

I think the reason the stories might change some in the Bible is because of the different translations from language to language. It was written in Hebrew, then translated to Greek, and later to many other languages, including English. Somewhere along the lines, messages can be altered a bit.

Also, many of the New Testament books were based on eyewitness accounts from different ppl as to what was happening during Jesus's life, and all the miracles he created.

yes that's true Vinman, some of the messages there MAY be understood different in other language,or not clear,but generally it's all the same in every language.

BUT we can't say by translating,in original book it was Jesus prophet of God,and in the later (translated) books,it was mentioned Jesus is son of God and that's because of loss in translation..

 

[Snoop]

A valid question there Snoop, a clue that would answer your question is that you misinterpreted what I said.

The bible was sent by god but altered (tell me if you think it was altered or not, that would help in the discussion).

No,If I believed so,logically I wouldn't be a Christian.I would be an atheist.

But since it was altered not everything is directly from the original source i.e. god. There is some fabrications and untrue thing.

If Hambon was a christian,you would recieve many insults for that

We are commanded to believe in the books that they in their very original essence are sent by god. The prophet PBUH did not disallow reading the two books, BUT anything that conflicts Quran should be refuted, things that are similar believe in, and things that are not mentioned in the Quran (especially stories that do not have any conflict with the basic theological islamic belief) we neither deny them or take them for granted. But still the current bible we have nowadays IT IS sent from God but altered...is that so hard to understand?

the answer is Like I expected,again you didn't reply my question.if you believe BIBLE is sent or came thru God,and you are saying this one we are reading is fake/modified,then how come God let that happen?and wouldn't it be unfair towards the Christian Believers?
The Bible you are claiming that it exists,is not true,fabricated by "prophet" Muhammad. again and again I tell you,you are imagining yourself that those 3 religions are accepted by Quraan,but there are no religion or holy books that Quraan is mentioning (the "original" bible,and the "original" torah),that's a big Fabrication created by Muhammad,to protect his so called "religion".
Conclusion,Islam and Muslims,believe that only Quraan is a book sent by God,and there is only one religion.

Did I say " we believe in all three religions"? If so then its my bad! This is what I mean. We believe that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam come from the same source and basically preaches (or used to) preach the same thing. Monthesim. But that is not the case with christianity, and Judaism (I believe correct me if I am wrong). The keyword here is monothesim!

where are those "original" books??? how could God let that happen to Jews and christians??who modified them??why?when?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Snoop here ya go:

Son of God
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. JOHN 3.16
A DESCRIPTIVE TERM:
And they made a proclamation in Judah and Jerusalem unto all the children of captivity. EZRA 10.7

Then said he, These are the two sons of oil, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. ZECHARIA 4.14

Behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial [satin], beset the house round about. JUDGES 19.22

The good seed are the children of the kingdom. MATTHEW 13.38
JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:
ANGELS
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7

CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:
That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2

THE ISRAELITES:
And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22

And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23

You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. HOSEA 11.1

JUDGES OF ISRAEL:
I have said ye are gods: and all of you are the children of God. PSALMS 82.6

EPHRAIM:
Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him. JEREMIAH 31.20

I am father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first born. JEREMIAH 31.9

DAVID:
I will declare thee a decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. PSALMS 2.7

Also I will make him my first born. PSALMS 69:37

SOLOMON:
He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father. I CHRONICLES 22.10

I will be his father, and he shall be my son. 2 SAMUEL 7.14

And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 1 CHRONICLES 28.6

ADAM:
Adam, which was the son of God. LUKE 3.38

OTHER CHILDREN OF GOD:
THE RIGHTEOUS:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ROMANS 8.14

The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. ROMANS 8.16

Love your enemy, bless them that curse thee, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven. MATTHEW 5.44/45

CHRIST'S DISCIPLES:
And because ye are sons of God, God hath sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father. GALATIANS 4.6

CHRIST'S FOLLOWERS:
But as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God. JOHN 1.12

For you are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ GALATIANS 3.25.

BELIEVERS:
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. I JOHN 5.1

PEACEMAKERS:
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. MATTHEW 5.9

CHRIST'S DENIAL OF SONSHIP:
And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said; nevertheless, I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. MATTHEW 26.63/64

And the devils also came out of many, crying out and saying; Thou art Christ, the Son of God. And he, rebuking them, suffered them not to speak, for they knew that he was Christ. LUKE 4.41

 

[Zé Tahir]

No,If I believed so,logically I wouldn't be a Christian.I would be an atheist.



If Hambon was a christian,you would recieve many insults for that


the answer is Like I expected,again you didn't reply my question.if you believe BIBLE is sent or came thru God,and you are saying this one we are reading is fake/modified,then how come God let that happen?and wouldn't it be unfair towards the Christian Believers?
The Bible you are claiming that it exists,is not true,fabricated by "prophet" Muhammad. again and again I tell you,you are imagining yourself that those 3 religions are accepted by Quraan,but there are no religion or holy books that Quraan is mentioning (the "original" bible,and the "original" torah),that's a big Fabrication created by Muhammad,to protect his so called "religion".
Conclusion,Islam and Muslims,believe that only Quraan is a book sent by God,and there is only one religion.



where are those "original" books??? how could God let that happen to Jews and christians??who modified them??why?when?

Snoop now that we finally are having some civilized conversations in here ,you are still coming with your bullocks. You don't have to insult anone to put forth youre religious beliefs.

Conclusion,Islam and Muslims,believe that only Quraan is a book sent by God,and there is only one religion.

No, Islam is the complete religion; each religion has been a step towards the final and complete religion, Islam. Now that is our belief, so don't come back with insulting remarks. The reason why LoScoglio keeps saying that violence is justified in Islam and not in Christianity, is because the Qur'an is so detailed that it also contains rules of War. There so many traditions in Christianity which were simply made up over the course of time, because they aren't in the bible. Fifth Council of the Lateran, First Vatican Council The councel of Trent, the Catholic Reformation, The Lutheran Remormation, The Protestant Reformation, etc. All this occured because when there aren't any clear set of rule out there, they have to made. And obviously when that happens there are disagreements between parties.

Islamic text on the other hand is so detailed, you can't imagine it. There is mention of bacteria, there is mention of life on other planets, the is mention of the future; major earthquakes (which took place in this past century), major wars (the 1st & 2nd WW), future means of transport, future powers, etc. I can go on forever, there is so much mention.

 

[Rami]

No,If I believed so,logically I wouldn't be a Christian.I would be an atheist.


If Hambon was a christian,you would recieve many insults for that


the answer is Like I expected,again you didn't reply my question.if you believe BIBLE is sent or came thru God,and you are saying this one we are reading is fake/modified,then how come God let that happen?and wouldn't it be unfair towards the Christian Believers?
The Bible you are claiming that it exists,is not true,fabricated by "prophet" Muhammad. again and again I tell you,you are imagining yourself that those 3 religions are accepted by Quraan,but there are no religion or holy books that Quraan is mentioning (the "original" bible,and the "original" torah),that's a big Fabrication created by Muhammad,to protect his so called "religion".
Conclusion,Islam and Muslims,believe that only Quraan is a book sent by God,and there is only one religion.



where are those "original" books??? how could God let that happen to Jews and christians??who modified them??why?when?

1-Not fake, but been changed more or less in some of its verses. Its a known fact and priest usually try to downplay that fact with different tactics.

2- No god did not leave you astray snoop, as with the Jewish in 200 AD, he sent him the bible, but was reluctant to read the continuance of his religion and stuck with the Torah, Don't do like him and read the Quran objectively and unbiased. I for one read the Bibile and Torah (never read them in whole but have read a lot). I am just asking you to widen your horizons here

3- The thing is I never described Jesus with any thing scandalous, as a matter of fact I called him infallible, yet you calling Muhammad a liar. This is no way to have a healthy discussion, and then you wonder why Hambon is so agressive.

4-In fact there are numerous mentioning of the Torah and Bible (Torah is mention Torah in Arabic), Christians and Jews are called "people of the book".

5-2:285

The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.

Notice the S for Plural!

6-Yes it is only one religion. Monothesim! Thats what I have been saying all along!! Mono refferring to one, i.e. meaning one GOD!

7-Each era had their messengers with religions, they all had one thing similar, again yes monothsim.

 

[Zé Tahir]

LoScoglio, this is for you:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/mna/chapter_1.html

 

[Hambon]

I think Hambon78 is trying to say you're an uneducated fool if you don't believe in the Qu'ran. I don't know why Hambon78 hasn't been banned yet, because I do believe that he's a religion fanatic. What I suggest is that you pity him. If you come across such people in real life, bigger actions might be necessary because any religion fanatic is an outright danger, but this is the internet so you won't be able to do anything about it. Just let him be until he gets banned, which he will if he keeps on making remarks like that. Look at Seven for example.

Man a whole paragraph dedicated for me thanks LoScoglio:

First of all i just wanna say one thing to you: I have yet to speak negativley towards christanity,juddasim or for the matter any religion.

Second of all; you dont know me? how could u just make assumptions about who i am ??? a religious fanatic...no my friend far from that, a danger to others?? you must be LOCO scoglio

Third of all i have only Barked as you said, when people dissed my religion "islam" by either misinterpreting our beliefs and speaking badly about our prophets and saying riduculous things to support weak arguments.......that is why i "bark" like you said. I would have to be a heartless person to let those type of comments to be said freely. Any sane man would defend thier religion dont you think??

Fourth of all: who the hell are u to say anything about me getting banned??? You should be the one watching what u say..... You compare me to Seven?? i barely know the guy and we never had any arguments, so u can take your weak ass suggestions and shove them up your ass for all i care....

As for snoopy.....he has shown us his real side and i dont want to comment about him for his sake.....( you might want to take some english courses before you start discussing serious subjects, your english can get you in some serious shit. Example like that italian joke" I wanna Fvck(fork) on the table..

one more thing, i pity you more than snoop at least he was man enough to bark back not like your lame ass.....

 

[Hambon]

haha trust me I know him personally and he is the furthest from being any religion fanatic...take my word

I have know Rami for a long time now: University,Football,hangin out the whole nine....He is one of the kindest,most honest,educated and above all Trustworthy person you can meet.....i might have a temper which rami know for sure(beach football.hehe) but overall i consider my self a laid back, honest guy .... and would never hurt a fly...but if you say anything about my Familia or religion then we gots problems.....

 

[LoScoglio]

Snoop now that we finally are having some civilized conversations in here ,you are still coming with your bullocks. You don't have to insult anone to put forth youre religious beliefs.



No, Islam is the complete religion; each religion has been a step towards the final and complete religion, Islam. Now that is our belief, so don't come back with insulting remarks. The reason why LoScoglio keeps saying that violence is justified in Islam and not in Christianity, is because the Qur'an is so detailed that it also contains rules of War. There so many traditions in Christianity which were simply made up over the course of time, because they aren't in the bible. Fifth Council of the Lateran, First Vatican Council The councel of Trent, the Catholic Reformation, The Lutheran Remormation, The Protestant Reformation, etc. All this occured because when there aren't any clear set of rule out there, they have to made. And obviously when that happens there are disagreements between parties.

Islamic text on the other hand is so detailed, you can't imagine it. There is mention of bacteria, there is mention of life on other planets, the is mention of the future; major earthquakes (which took place in this past century), major wars (the 1st & 2nd WW), future means of transport, future powers, etc. I can go on forever, there is so much mention.

I don't think you understood what I was saying. It wasn't mean negatively.

 

[LoScoglio]

Man a whole paragraph dedicated for me thanks LoScoglio:

First of all i just wanna say one thing to you: I have yet to speak negativley towards christanity,juddasim or for the matter any religion.

Second of all; you dont know me? how could u just make assumptions about who i am ??? a religious fanatic...no my friend far from that, a danger to others?? you must be LOCO scoglio

Third of all i have only Barked as you said, when people dissed my religion "islam" by either misinterpreting our beliefs and speaking badly about our prophets and saying riduculous things to support weak arguments.......that is why i "bark" like you said. I would have to be a heartless person to let those type of comments to be said freely. Any sane man would defend thier religion dont you think??

Fourth of all: who the hell are u to say anything about me getting banned??? You should be the one watching what u say..... You compare me to Seven?? i barely know the guy and we never had any arguments, so u can take your weak ass suggestions and shove them up your ass for all i care....

As for snoopy.....he has shown us his real side and i dont want to comment about him for his sake.....( you might want to take some english courses before you start discussing serious subjects, your english can get you in some serious shit. Example like that italian joke" I wanna Fvck(fork) on the table..

one more thing, i pity you more than snoop at least he was man enough to bark back not like your lame ass.....

That's a lot of words there for 0 arguments.

 

[Zlatan]

Where are you from Lo Scoglio?

 

[LoScoglio]

Where are you from man?

Jamaica man.

 

[LoScoglio]

If you're asking where I'm from because you want to know my religion: I'm a Roman Catholic.

 

[Zlatan]

I'm asking where you're from because I want to know where you're from.