Miralem Pjanić (28 Viewers)

[Boksic]

Do people really have short memories of how bad pjanic was in the last 2 seasons for us? he had to go, we definitely got the better end of the deal.

I wasn't being serious...there's no way Barca would want Arthur back.

I find it funny when players leave people just make up a narrative of how the player performed. He was not bad in his last 2 seasons for us, he was bad in his last 6 months. In the first half of the season under Sarri people were raving about him. The season before that he was our best mid and had 8 assists and 4 goals.

It was probably time to cash in given his age but once again we have sold a good player and replaced with a weaker one.

 

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[Badass J Elkann]

I wasn't being serious...there's no way Barca would want Arthur back.

I find it funny when players leave people just make up a narrative of how the player performed. He was not bad in his last 2 seasons for us, he was bad in his last 6 months. In the first half of the season under Sarri people were raving about him. The season before that he was our best mid and had 8 assists and 4 goals.

It was probably time to cash in given his age but once again we have sold a good player and replaced with a weaker one.

We sold a declining player for one who is younger and has scope to improve.

 

[Boksic]

We sold a declining player for one who is younger and has scope to improve.

Who will never reach the same standard of performance that Pjanic did overall for us.

That is the main issue, once again we have sold a key player and replaced him with a lesser player.

Younger does not always = better. Arthur hasn't learnt how to pass as a centre mid by his mid 20s, I'm not convinced he will ever do so. Plus despite being younger he seems to have stamina issues.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Who will never reach the same standard of performance that Pjanic did overall for us.

That is the main issue, once again we have sold a key player and replaced him with a lesser player.

Younger does not always = better. Arthur hasn't learnt how to pass as a centre mid by his mid 20s, I'm not convinced he will ever do so. Plus despite being younger he seems to have stamina issues.

Thing is lets say we kept pjanic, we'd get less productivity out of him this season forwards and a lower resale value, chances are we'd struggle to get anything close what our books show with barca, if anything he'd probably end up going for nothing like khedira, matuidi and Higuain and have a capital loss which doesn't look good on us finanancially.

We have to understand the bigger picture, the deal is as good as its going to get, both clubs benefited financially, I still think Arthur has a place in this team and will look a better fit once the rest of the midfield is sorted, right now there is no balance in there, just individuals and not a cohesive unit.

 

[Boksic]

Thing is lets say we kept pjanic, we'd get less productivity out of him this season forwards and a lower resale value, chances are we'd struggle to get anything close what our books show with barca, if anything he'd probably end up going for nothing like khedira, matuidi and Higuain and have a capital loss which doesn't look good on us finanancially.

We have to understand the bigger picture, the deal is as good as its going to get, both clubs benefited financially, I still think Arthur has a place in this team and will look a better fit once the rest of the midfield is sorted, right now there is no balance in there, just individuals and not a cohesive unit.

I appreciate his value/contribution would decrease.

I don't agree that we both benefitted financially. We are the ones that paid over money in the swap (25m + 10m bonuses off the top of my head). We both benefitted from a short term accounting point of view. Long term it will hurt us because (1) we are now amortising a cost of 82m for Arthur over the next 4 years or so (20m a year), (2) we are paying 5m net in wages to a guy that doesn't deserve it, and (3) the book value of Arthur is going to be far higher than his resale value so if we sell him we take a big loss or we are stuck with him even if he doesn't perform. So we made a short term profit (at a time where FFP is paused) but for a long term hit which will put pressure on us to plusvalenza each year for the rest of Arthur's contract.

It is another example of our management's short term thinking and replacing with lesser quality players than we have sold. This is why we are in this position.

I have no faith in Arthur being a success here based on his flop at Barca and what I have seen so far.

My issue is could we have used 35m + 5m a year in wages for a better midfielder? In my opinion yes.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I appreciate his value/contribution would decrease.

I don't agree that we both benefitted financially. We are the ones that paid over money in the swap (25m + 10m bonuses off the top of my head). We both benefitted from a short term accounting point of view. Long term it will hurt us because (1) we are now amortising a cost of 82m for Arthur over the next 4 years or so (20m a year), (2) we are paying 5m net in wages to a guy that doesn't deserve it, and (3) the book value of Arthur is going to be far higher than his resale value so if we sell him we take a big loss or we are stuck with him even if he doesn't perform. So we made a short term profit (at a time where FFP is paused) but for a long term hit which will put pressure on us to plusvalenza each year for the rest of Arthur's contract.

It is another example of our management's short term thinking and replacing with lesser quality players than we have sold. This is why we are in this position.

I have no faith in Arthur being a success here based on his flop at Barca and what I have seen so far.

My issue is could we have used 35m + 5m a year in wages for a better midfielder? In my opinion yes.

the net cost of what we paid them was more like 10 mill not 35, our books says we made big capital gains on selling pjanic for 60 odd mill

 

[Boksic]

the net cost of what we paid them was more like 10 mill not 35, our books says we made big capital gains on selling pjanic for 60 odd mill

I know it does that's why I mentioned the short term profit (which probably doesn't matter anyway if FFP is paused). But long term we are bring a cost of 82m over the next 5 years. Which we are going to have to find plusvalenzas for to cover.

I've checked, the net cost is 17m. Lower than I thought fortunately but still 17m I'd rather spend on someone better.

The issue is once again we have replaced a key player with a worse player, committing a large chunk of our budget in the process. We are also now stuck with him regardless of how he performs.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I know it does that's why I mentioned the short term profit (which probably doesn't matter anyway if FFP is paused). But long term we are bring a cost of 82m over the next 5 years. Which we are going to have to find plusvalenzas for to cover.

I've checked, the net cost is 17m. Lower than I thought fortunately but still 17m I'd rather spend on someone better.

The issue is once again we have replaced a key player with a worse player, committing a large chunk of our budget in the process. We are also now stuck with him regardless of how he performs.

wait where you getting 82 mill from?

If we're stuck with Arthur he has resale value which Pjanic doesn't possess anymore, again another reason why we get the better end of all this.

 

[Boksic]

wait where you getting 82 mill from?

If we're stuck with Arthur he has resale value which Pjanic doesn't possess anymore, again another reason why we get the better end of all this.

We signed Arthur for 72m + 10m in bonuses = 82m.

Arthur's resale is highly likely to be lower than his book value, so we will be booking a capital loss. Plus the 16.4m a year hit we are taking on him to the accounts + 5m net wages + tax.

We likely paid 17m cash (could be more or less depending on the bonuses) extra for the benefit of being able to get a resale value on him. It's not like this was a free swap.

Regardless of your opinion of the deal we have replaced a key player with one of lesser quality. That is not a good deal in my book or a good use of resources. Taking accounting/resources out of the equation, he is nowhere near the quality we needed in an area we were already weak in.

 

[zizinho]

We signed Arthur for 72m + 10m in bonuses = 82m.

Arthur's resale is highly likely to be lower than his book value, so we will be booking a capital loss. Plus the 16.4m a year hit we are taking on him to the accounts + 5m net wages + tax.

We likely paid 17m cash (could be more or less depending on the bonuses) extra for the benefit of being able to get a resale value on him. It's not like this was a free swap.

Regardless of your opinion of the deal we have replaced a key player with one of lesser quality. That is not a good deal in my book or a good use of resources. Taking accounting/resources out of the equation, he is nowhere near the quality we needed in an area we were already weak in.

People don't understand this, they think we paid some 10M (don't know the exact number, couldn't care less) plus Pjanic, so they think it was cheap. But we'd have been better off if we sold Pjanic for some small plusvalenza instead

 

[Elvin]

Who will never reach the same standard of performance that Pjanic did overall for us.

How do you know this?

 

[s4tch]

How do you know this?

what does arthur have over pre-cardiff pjanic? dribbling maybe - i can't think of anything else though. arthur's just an inferior player, who can only be considered as an upgrade because pjanic is getting old very quickly.

 

[Dostoevsky]

How do you know this?

Because Pjanic is simply a better player. A lot better.

Pjanic as 20yo was already great for Lyon. Then he was great for Roma.

In his first season here he was 3rd most effective player with 21 goals+assists. In his second season here he was our 4th most effective player in the team with 17 goals+assists. In third season he was 4th with 12 goals+assists. In his last season, despite lower numbers, he was still 4th with 9 goals+assists. Last two season with him were different due to our new style with Ronaldo where he took half of the numbers away from others literally.

Yeah, Pjanic used to disappear sometimes. But I think people forgot how instrumental he was here because he kept the ball going forward and he was great at it. So many times he looked like a wizard. He's what we lacked this season where our mid looked like bunch of clueless chickens.

Arthur is gonna be 25 this summer and he hasn't done nor achieved shit so far. Just some potential that he's yet to show. So yeah, chances are slim he's going to turn into some kind of monster for us and outperform Pjanic.

 

[JuveE46]

Artur has the lungs of a 10 year old chihuahua with smoking habit

 

[Elvin]

Because Pjanic is simply a better player. A lot better.

Pjanic as 20yo was already great for Lyon. Then he was great for Roma.

In his first season here he was 3rd most effective player with 21 goals+assists. In his second season here he was our 4th most effective player in the team with 17 goals+assists. In third season he was 4th with 12 goals+assists. In his last season, despite lower numbers, he was still 4th with 9 goals+assists. Last two season with him were different due to our new style with Ronaldo where he took half of the numbers away from others literally.

Yeah, Pjanic used to disappear sometimes. But I think people forgot how instrumental he was here because he kept the ball going forward and he was great at it. So many times he looked like a wizard. He's what we lacked this season where our mid looked like bunch of clueless chickens.

Arthur is gonna be 25 this summer and he hasn't done nor achieved shit so far. Just some potential that he's yet to show. So yeah, chances are slim he's going to turn into some kind of monster for us and outperform Pjanic.

Ok makes sense. It was still a sensible swap tho.

 

[zizinho]

Ok makes sense. It was still a sensible swap tho.

Ok think about it this way. What with Arthur? You happy with him? To me he shouldnt be starting for us quality wise (normally, but we are worse than we used to be) and he earns starting caliber wages (none of MVPP ever earned 5M a year for us). But then if we tried to sell him, we wouldnt be getting nearly as much as we would need, making it a loss on the books

 

[JCK]

Did I read that Arthur has a resale value?

 

[Lion]

Arthur is gonna be 25 this summer and he hasn't done nor achieved shit so far. Just some potential that he's yet to show. So yeah, chances are slim he's going to turn into some kind of monster for us and outperform Pjanic.

we talking about same arthur here right? arthur that was a starter for gremio that won copa libertadores and starter for barca winning la liga?

same guy?

 

[Elvin]

Ok think about it this way. What with Arthur? You happy with him? To me he shouldnt be starting for us quality wise (normally, but we are worse than we used to be) and he earns starting caliber wages (none of MVPP ever earned 5M a year for us). But then if we tried to sell him, we wouldnt be getting nearly as much as we would need, making it a loss on the books

No im not happy with Arthur so far, but would be a lot unhappier with Pjanic becoming Khedira 2.0, which is exactly what happened to him at Barça.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Artur has the lungs of a 10 year old chihuahua with smoking habit

Actually this normal lolzilian lungs. Some are born with normal ones, Roberto Carlos and Cafu for example, but those are rare abnormalities @CrimsonianKing