Messi vs C.Ronaldo (19 Viewers)

[DAiDEViL]

@il brutto

 

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[Monty]

You clearly do not understand what talent is. Was R9 better than Messi or Ronaldo at age 5 for example? Or, How it turned out to be when they were 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 etc? Also, how you determine talent? Technique and flair are often considered the most "notable" things when you're looking at the talent, then might come physique and so on, but since it's way more than that and you can only see the surface, the moment when the ball is on someone's feet, you can't understand what's beyond there. It doesn't matter what sport we're talking about, it always comes down to that for the majority, because they just see the moments where camera is focused on, with little knowledge about what's happening the rest of the time, which is 99.999%. It includes actions on or off the pitch, it includes actions on or off the ball, it includes the decision making, what's happening in your brain and it includes how resistant your body is to major injuries etc.

Greatest talent is always the player or person who became the best at what they do, it really ain't more complicated than that. You can try to go back to your old beliefs and say "ya i knew this guy" or someone who would have been that good but guess what, he never had talent to become the best and yes i repeat, he never had the talent to become the best, which itself is talent so we can stop speculating about this such a stupid topic, which nobody seems to understand.

ummm...talent is natural ability...don't see what's difficult to understand in that...

 

[il brutto]

ummm...talent is natural ability...don't see what's difficult to understand in that...

@Pegi has a weird relationship with the word "talent". For some reason it seems to be a word that triggers all sorts of emotions in him.

You are of course right, it should be a fairly easy concept to understand.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/talent
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/talent

 

[Hust]

So Messi going to Inter, or what?

 

[Pegi]

@Pegi has a weird relationship with the word "talent". For some reason it seems to be a word that triggers all sorts of emotions in him.

You are of course right, it should be a fairly easy concept to understand.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/talent
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/talent

It's natural ability a.k.a genetics, which includes all the aspects instead of just the want you want to see. R9 was never talented as Messi or Ronaldo, that's why he was basically done before his 30s and that's why he scored way less goals than those 2 as well. He wasn't geneticially talented as Messi and Ronaldo, that's why his career was cut short. Ronaldinho in other hand is kind of victim where he comes from, which is from the poor streets of Brazil. The goal for those poor kids is to make better living and once it's done, the outer motivation dies. Outer motivation is a strenght for them as well, a financially rich kid who got everything will literally never have the work ethic to become to best either, just because he has everything meanwhile the poor one doesn't. R9 had everything but the genetics for playing the sports without injuries, a.k.a not good enough genetics to become a GOAT, so therefore he wasn't the most "talented".

Talent is nothing but a made up word for genetics.

 

[il brutto]

It's natural ability a.k.a genetics, which includes all the aspects instead of just the want you want to see. R9 was never talented as Messi or Ronaldo, that's why he was basically done before his 30s and that's why he scored way less goals than those 2 as well. He wasn't geneticially talented as Messi and Ronaldo, that's why his career was cut short. Ronaldinho in other hand is kind of victim where he comes from, which is from the poor streets of Brazil. The goal for those poor kids is to make better living and once it's done, the outer motivation dies. Outer motivation is a strenght for them as well, a financially rich kid who got everything will literally never have the work ethic to become to best either, just because he has everything meanwhile the poor one doesn't. R9 had everything but the genetics for playing the sports without injuries, a.k.a not good enough genetics to become a GOAT, so therefore he wasn't the most "talented".

Talent is nothing but a made up word for genetics.

You're free to come up with whatever definition you want for the word "talent" and use it as you please. I'm just pointing out that you shouldn't get triggered when people use it in a way that is universally accepted.

 

[Pegi]

You're free to come up with whatever definition you want for the word "talent" and use it as you please. I'm just pointing out that you shouldn't get triggered when people use it in a way that is universally accepted.

Yes, but when someone is claiming that someone is far superior to Messi and Ronaldo, when absolutely nothing suggest that it's getting out of hand. Should atleast try to come up with why he thinks that and what are the things that makes him far "superior" compared to those 2. Using word talent isn't enough, especially when he clearly doesn't know what it is.

 

[Zacheryah]

You clearly do not understand what talent is. Was R9 better than Messi or Ronaldo at age 5 for example? Or, How it turned out to be when they were 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 etc? Also, how you determine talent? Technique and flair are often considered the most "notable" things when you're looking at the talent, then might come physique and so on, but since it's way more than that and you can only see the surface, the moment when the ball is on someone's feet, you can't understand what's beyond there. It doesn't matter what sport we're talking about, it always comes down to that for the majority, because they just see the moments where camera is focused on, with little knowledge about what's happening the rest of the time, which is 99.999%. It includes actions on or off the pitch, it includes actions on or off the ball, it includes the decision making, what's happening in your brain and it includes how resistant your body is to major injuries etc.

Greatest talent is always the player or person who became the best at what they do, it really ain't more complicated than that. You can try to go back to your old beliefs and say "ya i knew this guy" or someone who would have been that good but guess what, he never had talent to become the best and yes i repeat, he never had the talent to become the best, which itself is talent so we can stop speculating about this such a stupid topic, which nobody seems to understand.

I'll rephrase it

The level of ability and skill Ronaldo9 had in 96-99, is far superior to 11-13 Messi and 12-15 Cr7

Source : literally every player who was world-class when he played both

For example

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Mourinho
Nesta
Cannavaro
Maldini

Hence Zidane literally said that despite him. Losing his athletic ability, when he trained with him he was still on a different level.

And repeated it after having coached Ronaldo and won numerous classico's

 

[Elvin]

Ronaldinho had even more of the so-called natural talent and wow factor, but neither him nor R9 are in the consideration for the GOAT debate.

 

[zizinho]

Ronaldinho had even more of the so-called natural talent and wow factor, but neither him nor R9 are in the consideration for the GOAT debate.

He didnt have the goal scoring ability of Ronaldo. But dribbling and playmaking wise he was better

- - - Updated - - -

Different kind of talent, not necessaeily worse/better

 

[Lapa]

Flaidis! @Pegi @il brutto

 

[Pegi]

I'll rephrase it

The level of ability and skill Ronaldo9 had in 96-99, is far superior to 11-13 Messi and 12-15 Cr7

Source : literally every player who was world-class when he played both

For example

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Mourinho
Nesta
Cannavaro
Maldini

Hence Zidane literally said that despite him. Losing his athletic ability, when he trained with him he was still on a different level.

And repeated it after having coached Ronaldo and won numerous classico's

3 year period LMAO. You could have said a random game, by a random player and said he had more skill than anybody in that game than R9 had in 96-99. What the fhk are these time periods for real? Cr7 has played since 2002 at the top level, yet you picked 3 year period

We all know all these players mentioned are absolute beasts, but people should seriously try to not get too nostalgic. Not a single person born in the 70s will ever put anybody over Maradona, whether it's comes to "talent" or anything else. The fact is that Messi and Ronaldo revolutionized the game that never seen before, they're top 2 players of all time and therefore, they're the most talented players ever. There's a reason Joey Barton isn't the most talented, neither considered as a GOAT because those 2 things are going hand by hand.

 

[Ventus]

So Messi going to Inter, or what?

He's leaving but I reckon he'll go to PSG of the EPL.

Going to Inter would be extremely stupid, considering Barcelona's reserves knocked them out of the CL, unless he wants to reignite his rivalry with Ronaldo in Serie A.

 

[swag]

So Messi going to Inter, or what?

He's leaving but I reckon he'll go to PSG of the EPL.

Going to Inter would be extremely stupid, considering Barcelona's reserves knocked them out of the CL, unless he wants to reignite his rivalry with Ronaldo in Serie A.

Absolutely. Messi is too old to waste the precious remainder of his professional years with Made in China pretenders who can't even win a domestic title in Italy ... and whose hope for glory resides in the Europa League. Spain has already got Sevilla for that, and he ain't going there either.

The most obvious is the match made in desperation: Messi wants an expensive surrounding cast who can at least pretend to be semi-competent, and Pep will never win crap in Europe without him. So it's gotta be Los Plásticos of Man City.

 

[Nedved96]

The level of ability and skill Ronaldo9 had in 96-99, is far superior to 11-13 Messi and 12-15 Cr7

Players beat by dribble (opta)

Messi WC10 34 dribbles (5 games), 6.80
Messi CA11 32 dribbles (4 games), 8.00
Messi WC14 46 dribbles (7 games), 6.57
Messi CA15 43 dribbles (6 games), 7.17
Messi total 155 dribbles (22 games), 7.05 players beaten per game

Ronaldo WC98 16 dribbles (7 games), 2.29 players beaten per game

Messi at his peak dribbled at 3 times the rate of Ronaldo.
(and this was Ronaldo before his knee injuries)

Better skill my ass

 

[campionesidd]

Players beat by dribble (opta)

Messi WC10 34 dribbles (5 games), 6.80
Messi CA11 32 dribbles (4 games), 8.00
Messi WC14 46 dribbles (7 games), 6.57
Messi CA15 43 dribbles (6 games), 7.17
Messi total 155 dribbles (22 games), 7.05 players beaten per game

Ronaldo WC98 16 dribbles (7 games), 2.29 players beaten per game

Messi at his peak dribbled at 3 times the rate of Ronaldo.
(and this was Ronaldo before his knee injuries)

Better skill my ass

Ronaldo single handedly won the 2002 World Cup for Brazil.

 

[Nedved96]

Ronaldo single handedly won the 2002 World Cup for Brazil.

Only if you completely ignore the contribution of legendary players like Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Cafu, and Roberto Carlos.

That Brazil team of 2002 is far superior to any Argentina or Portugal team that Messi or Cristiano have ever played with.

Watch extended highlights of the 2002 World Cup final. Ronaldo misses 3 easy chances in the first half alone. If social media was around back then, he would be murdered online for his first half performance, he’d be called a choker etc...

Then there is the small but not insignificant fact that Ronaldo’s club career was a flop.

 

[Arcticdaly]

Only if you completely ignore the contribution of legendary players like Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Cafu, and Roberto Carlos.

That Brazil team of 2002 is far superior to any Argentina or Portugal team that Messi or Cristiano have ever played with.

Watch extended highlights of the 2002 World Cup final. Ronaldo misses 3 easy chances in the first half alone. If social media was around back then, he would be murdered online for his first half performance, he’d be called a choker etc...

Then there is the small but not insignificant fact that Ronaldo’s club career was a flop.

I do agree with you that Ronaldo and Messi live in a time where every second of there games and matches can be micro analyzed and found online and every bad touch or game is highlighted while the players in the past are only remembered for there good bits.

 

[Elvin]

Ronaldo single handedly won the 2002 World Cup for Brazil.

Single hadedly?
Ok he was their best player but it wasnt single handed.

Italy 94 (Baggio) and France 06 would be single handed (Zidane).
Brasil 02 was anything but single handed in fact it was a star-studded TEAM handed.

 

[il brutto]

I do agree with you that Ronaldo and Messi live in a time where every second of there games and matches can be micro analyzed and found online and every bad touch or game is highlighted while the players in the past are only remembered for there good bits.

Really?

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