Massimiliano Allegri (1,374 Viewers)

[Nedved96]

Secondly, it's flawed logic to justify keeping Allegri's because of his past.

Yep. This is the same argument some Arsenal fans were still repeating in 2017 on why they should keep Wenger.

In the past, the argument in Allegri's defense was that we sold key players every summer. Well, last summer we didn't sell any key players and we only added starting players (Ronaldo, Cancelo).

Another argument is that it takes him until February for his teams to hit top gear. We are in March now and playing shitter than ever before.

 

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[Goodfella]

Peoples reactions on this very forum just proof how far we have come under his tutelage. Being able to win a CL was a really distant dream before he took over. Now if we don't win it it's considered a failure. Of course it has also been a collective effort by those in charge like Agnelli, Marotta and so on. Allegri was the one who brought the believe that we can compete against anyone. Before him I don't think there was that believe in the team and among the fans there certainly wasn't.

I see your point, mister. But what was before is irrelevant, now the circumstances are different and CL is expected and that is not something he seems to be able to fulfill.

That extra step.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

About 3:2, why? I'm not saying we should sack Max btw

I think most had us at 50 50, so yeah it would be disappointing but shocking or major underachieving, i don't see it

 

[IliveForJuve]

I think most had us at 50 50, so yeah it would be disappointing but shocking or major underachieving, i don't see it

Sure, that's if you don't consider the way we played our most important match of the season.

The only reason our performance against Atlético wasn't shocking is because we've playing like that all season.

Of course, there is still time to qualify but I'm afraid too much damage has been done and now our chances are 10% IMO.

 

[s4tch]

I think most had us at 50 50, so yeah it would be disappointing but shocking or major underachieving, i don't see it

also, list of clubs that sacked their coach after failing to beat simeone's atleti in the knockouts:
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and that's it.

 

[kappa96]

Peoples reactions on this very forum just proof how far we have come under his tutelage. Being able to win a CL was a really distant dream before he took over. Now if we don't win it it's considered a failure. Of course it has also been a collective effort by those in charge like Agnelli, Marotta and so on. Allegri was the one who brought the believe that we can compete against anyone. Before him I don't think there was that believe in the team and among the fans there certainly wasn't.

I agree with this statement but not in full. It will be a failure to exit in the round of sixteen ,not if we don't win the final. Nobody is gonna fault him if we exit in the semis ,after a hard fought battle against Barca, city etc. I mean I wouldn't.

 

[il brutto]

Yep. This is the same argument some Arsenal fans were still repeating in 2017 on why they should keep Wenger.

In the past, the argument in Allegri's defense was that we sold key players every summer. Well, last summer we didn't sell any key players and we only added starting players (Ronaldo, Cancelo).

Another argument is that it takes him until February for his teams to hit top gear. We are in March now and playing shitter than ever before.

Not a valid comparison. Wenger's best years were ten years ago at that point. With Allegri we are talking about the past few years plus the current season in some regard being successful. Actual facts support Allegri, there isn't any need to come up with any arguments.

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I see your point, mister. But what was before is irrelevant, now the circumstances are different and CL is expected and that is not something he seems to be able to fulfill.

That extra step.

We are able to have those expectations because of him. He has changed the standards at Juve, that is how successful we have been with him.

 

[JUVEMOOD]

Peoples reactions on this very forum just proof how far we have come under his tutelage. Being able to win a CL was a really distant dream before he took over. Now if we don't win it it's considered a failure. Of course it has also been a collective effort by those in charge like Agnelli, Marotta and so on. Allegri was the one who brought the believe that we can compete against anyone. Before him I don't think there was that believe in the team and among the fans there certainly wasn't.

Well.. before Conte took over.. serie A was a dream too. After 3 scudettos and a complete domination on national level it is only normal that we think of CL. This is our expectations.
we expected the team to play each CL match in a do or die approach.
One of the things I hate about Allegri that the team only gear up in March,, it was excusable previous years since everytime he more or less had a new team, while this year, he has no excuse that our performances are bad and although when we got ATM, we were a slight favorite,, but we even did not put a fight in Madrid. When we played ManU and Valencia away.. and with those performances which was pretty good, our expectations were rightly confirmed. What happened next,, no idea.. If we get out to ATM, it is only Allegri fault and this should be his last year.

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[il brutto]

I agree with this statement but not in full. It will be a failure to exit in the round of sixteen ,not if we don't win the final. Nobody is gonna fault him if we exit in the semis ,after a hard fought battle against Barca, city etc. I mean I wouldn't.

Fair enough. I do have to add that Atletico is a top five European team along with us, Real, Barca and Bayern.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I think most had us at 50 50, so yeah it would be disappointing but shocking or major underachieving, i don't see it

Nope, not underachieving necessarily, but makes all that waiting for the season to start (in March) pointless

 

[Post Ironic]

Fair enough. I do have to add that Atletico is a top five European team along with us, Real, Barca and Bayern.

Shitty shitty draw for a first place team. But all the same, it will be super disappointing to be knocked out this early, regardless of opponent.

The first point is why I like Agnelli, etc with their idea of 4 groups of 8 with a longer group stage. With 4 teams qualifying from each group for the R of 16. 1st place teams would draw 4th place teams, 2nd would draw 3rd. This way you’d see more appropriate match-ups in the Rof16 imo.

 

[Nedved96]

We are able to have those expectations because of him. He has changed the standards at Juve, that is how successful we have been with him.

You are still living in the past. Allegri was great in 2016/17, but he hasn't been able to build on that at all. Our squad is significantly better than it was in 2016/17, and yet we are less successful and play much worse football.

Ronaldo - scored 15 goals per season in the Champions League for Real Madrid. It's very conceivable/likely that he will end this season with just 1 goal in this competition.
Bernardeschi - scored 14 goals in his final season at Fiorentina. Hasn't developed since he came here.
Dybala - still can't find a position for him in the team. He's a forward being used as a midfielder.
Bentancur - looked promosing when he got here. Has stagnated and shown no signs of improvements.
Costa - amazing in his first season, has turned to shit this season
Pjanic - has become gradually worse. A mere shadow of the player he was in 2016/17
Sandro - not even a shadow of the player he was two seasons ago

All our players are stagnating, no one is showing any signs of improvement or development. Our squad is much better than it was in 2016/17 and yet the football is somehow worse. That's how you know that our manager has hit his ceiling here.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

The thing that kinda fucks me off with Allegri is he'll happily freeze a player like Dybala or Costa out of the team but God forbid a CB, CM or full back is shit for 20 games in a row he'll absolutely ignore it. I don't know why he's so inconsistent with his rotation. Players that need time to hit form like Costa are frozen, younger players get zero minutes but Alex Sandro can look like Marco Motta and get a free pass for 18 months.

 

[Hist]

First they said style is not important. Results is the only thing that matters and it makes the last couple of months of the season make the entire snoozefest worth it. Then the results became miserable too.

A full season of nothing but shit football and an early CL and Coppa exit is definitely a failure. It doesnt make his entire tenure a failure or negate his previous successes but it makes this season a failure for sure.

People were saying 50/50 because the team was playing like shit, and lost to Young Boys and United. Its not because ATM is currently a superb team at all.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

First they said style is not important. Results is the only thing that matters and it makes the last couple of months of the season make the entire snoozefest worth it. Then the results became miserable too.

A full season of nothing but shit football and an early CL and Coppa exit is definitely a failure. It doesnt make his entire tenure a failure or negate his previous successes but it makes this season a failure for sure.

People were saying 50/50 because the team was playing like shit, and lost to Young Boys and United. Its not because ATM is currently a superb team at all.

Been calling out that excuse for ages

Our football looks shit because we can barely string 3 passes together not because we're playing some sort of gritty master class

Fast forward to big CL games, and we're still shit. Because funnily enough looking like you're playing terrible football actually usually means you're playing terrible football.

Thankfully the Serie A teams are literally 3 tiers beneath us and we can roll them just on individual brilliance.

And tbh unless we get a treble, the football we play now is just unacceptable from an entertainment standpoint. It's actually awful and for the first time in my life watching football I'm far more excited to watch big games as a neutral than Juve games. As a football fan the football we play is depressing. That's why I actively avoid all Mourinho games as a neutral.

 

[il brutto]

You are still living in the past. Allegri was great in 2016/17, but he hasn't been able to build on that at all. Our squad is significantly better than it was in 2016/17, and yet we are less successful and play much worse football.

Ronaldo - scored 15 goals per season in the Champions League for Real Madrid. It's very conceivable/likely that he will end this season with just 1 goal in this competition.
Bernardeschi - scored 14 goals in his final season at Fiorentina. Hasn't developed since he came here.
Dybala - still can't find a position for him in the team. He's a forward being used as a midfielder.
Bentancur - looked promosing when he got here. Has stagnated and shown no signs of improvements.
Costa - amazing in his first season, has turned to shit this season
Pjanic - has become gradually worse. A mere shadow of the player he was in 2016/17
Sandro - not even a shadow of the player he was two seasons ago

All our players are stagnating, no one is showing any signs of improvement or development. Our squad is much better than it was in 2016/17 and yet the football is somehow worse. That's how you know that our manager has hit his ceiling here.

Not living in the past. I'm just not as hasty as some are on making broad generalizations on a few bad games. Good and bad performances come and go, in the end results are what matter and what will be remembered.

 

[Hist]

Been calling out that excuse for ages

Our football looks shit because we can barely string 3 passes together not because we're playing some sort of gritty master class

Fast forward to big CL games, and we're still shit. Because funnily enough looking like you're playing terrible football actually usually means you're playing terrible football.

Thankfully the Serie A teams are literally 3 tiers beneath us and we can roll them just on individual brilliance.

And tbh unless we get a treble, the football we play now is just unacceptable from an entertainment standpoint. It's actually awful and for the first time in my life watching football I'm far more excited to watch big games as a neutral than Juve games. As a football fan the football we play is depressing. That's why I actively avoid all Mourinho games as a neutral.

Fully agree. One detail I'll add is that this season I see clear attacking intent i.e. trying to play offensive football but as you said failing to string three passes together that arent sideways. In previous seasons we did not have the same attacking mindset and yet we got better results with a much weaker squad against stronger competition.

For me this season speaks to Allegri's limitations at setting up a proper offensive team. He just doesnt know how to do it. It would be like asking Pep to play Catenaccio.

 

[DAiDEViL]

You are still living in the past. Allegri was great in 2016/17, but he hasn't been able to build on that at all. Our squad is significantly better than it was in 2016/17, and yet we are less successful and play much worse football.

Ronaldo - scored 15 goals per season in the Champions League for Real Madrid. It's very conceivable/likely that he will end this season with just 1 goal in this competition.
Bernardeschi - scored 14 goals in his final season at Fiorentina. Hasn't developed since he came here.
Dybala - still can't find a position for him in the team. He's a forward being used as a midfielder.
Bentancur - looked promosing when he got here. Has stagnated and shown no signs of improvements.
Costa - amazing in his first season, has turned to shit this season
Pjanic - has become gradually worse. A mere shadow of the player he was in 2016/17
Sandro - not even a shadow of the player he was two seasons ago

All our players are stagnating, no one is showing any signs of improvement or development. Our squad is much better than it was in 2016/17 and yet the football is somehow worse. That's how you know that our manager has hit his ceiling here.

Idk if you can tie all that to Allegri (...especially not Costa). I give you Ronaldo and Dybala to some extent, but the rest of the players you mentioned? Not so much imo. And Berna has improved his overall game since he came here.

 

[Hist]

Not living in the past. I'm just not as hasty as some are on making broad generalizations on a few bad games. Good and bad performances come and go, in the end results are what matter and what will be remembered.

People still remember that Capello's Juve was unwatchable despite the "Results". People still remember Chelsea's CL win as an undeserved fluke because of its style. So yes results are very important but they are not the only thing that matters or will be remembered.

 

[Nedved96]

Ancelotti won the league with Bayern in 2016/17. Unai Emery won the domestic treble with PSG in 2017/18. They both got sacked because domestic success is not good enough to justify keeping your job at these clubs. You must succeed in the Champions League

We are in the same situation as PSG and Bayern. Our squad is so much better than everyone else in the league that domestic success is meaningless. This Juve team would probably win Serie A without a coach.

Our manager should be judged solely by what he does in the Champions League.