Massimiliano Allegri (257 Viewers)

[IlCapitano]

No one ever said there was a switch. I really hope you're joking when you say that's what Allegri/people mean by talking about being in best condition come spring.

And no, our current group of players is nowhere near the golden periods of RM and Barca. Other than Chiellini and Ronaldo we have no players at the level of prime Dani Alves, Marcelo, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, Neymar, Suarez, Messi, even Di Maria that year when Ancelotti won the CL.

 

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[Vlad]

Yeah, eventhough I dislike Barca, there is no denying they had some spectacular players during their most successful years. Id add to our cause Cancelo in addition to Chiellini and CR, maybe even Alex Sandro if he can regain previous levels, but our midfield is far cry from theirs.

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Yeah they should learn from Juve how to be a European success. Titles Galore.

Well that would be a good start for either because up until now they have 0 CL titles to their name.

 

[Rabbit]

Should get sacked for allowing fucken Hoarau to score twice against us.

 

[juve103423]

No one ever said there was a switch. I really hope you're joking when you say that's what Allegri/people mean by talking about being in best condition come spring.

And no, our current group of players is nowhere near the golden periods of RM and Barca. Other than Chiellini and Ronaldo we have no players at the level of prime Dani Alves, Marcelo, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, Neymar, Suarez, Messi, even Di Maria that year when Ancelotti won the CL.

It sounds very much like people are talking about a switch, and not just fitness. I dont recall that our fitness levels have been superior to our opponents in the important CL games, and I dont easily understand how that would affect tactical choices, weird subs, players out of position and stubborn one-dimensional tactics. Playing 50% to our potential is good enough for Serie A, as our potential is so high. But if we could just play to 80% of our potential, we would steamroll CL too. I hope you guys are right and Allegri turns the switch, mentally, physically and tactically, so that this can be our year.

Edit: By the way, you are picking a lineup from both Real and Barca now? I didnt say we have players to beat a combined all star team from those two.
Im saying that we are quite equal on paper, to the best of Real and Barca. Player wise, not play wise.

 

[IlCapitano]

It's about everything. Fitness improves as you play more games, trainings aren't as physical and are more technical, mental preparation and approach from players is different, etc... But Juventus is not the only team that does this. It's the goal of every team who plays on 3 fronts. Your problem you think someone saying we'll be better in spring is some novel plan only Allegri is privileged to.

Tactical choices, subs etc are just fine. They change as players' form changes throughout the year. There is no stubborn tactics. Allegri changes 3-4 different one's throughout a single game, it's one of his greatest strengths as a coach - extreme adaptability and courage to try something different. Players out of position happens only when there's injuries so Berna/Cuadrado have to play in the middle or fullbacks etc.

Can't help but notice people often forget there are other teams who have same goals as Juventus and they fight for them, they don't want to be steamrolled. It's not always that Juventus doesn't play to it's full potential, it's that other teams' potential is higher.

 

[juve103423]

So if you say that Allegri doesn't have a switch other coaches don't have, then why should I not be worried? If he doesn't have any extra advantage in the spring as first claimed before changing the story. That's the point. The fact is that the currently best squad in the world, has great great trouble stringing 3 passes together in attack, are not anywhere near a coherent starting 11 or even formation, filling in players in awkward position where they end up standing in eachothers way. It seems like we are randomly trying many things at the same time and won't ever know what worked and what didn't. I'm not sure this is one of Allegris forces.
Things can change and I also think we will have a good CL run this year. But as things stand, I wouldn't put us as favourite for the title, based on current play. Before the season I would.

I dont know what coach would do better, it's really hard to say what coaches are good contrary to football players, but I think there is so much more potential in this team than it currently shows. So I hope Allegri sacrifices a goat and switches on in March.

 

[DAiDEViL]

For me the worrying/disappointing part is that this group of players we currently have, on paper could equal the golden periods of Real and Barca. But it seems very unlikely right now, that we will be able to convert. However I will try to be patient and wait and see if Allegri triggers the switch come March 1st was it?

We may currently have the best, or one of the squads around, but let's not exaggerate. Those teams had worldclass players in every department, whilst our midfield is a clear weakness that can't even compete with our own mid from 4 years ago.

 

[Hust]

Well, if Max can't maximize this squad and take it to the max then maybe the maximum this club can achieve is 2nd place in CL.

 

[edgardavids2608]

Allegri with us has been getting results but severely lacking in style. Thats what hes got wrong in the past. The football doesn't have to be excruciating to win Serie and coppa italia. Imagine if PSG wasnt even entertaining to watch in Ligue 1. That has been us.

This year we are trying to play more attractive but somehow when we do that, we waste a gazillion chances.

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Which teams would top this mickey mouse Serie A and qualify from this easy group and in much better style?

Barca, PSG, City, Liverpool.

Who has a squad thats on par with ours?

Barca (Messi) and PSG have top squads like ours. City and Pool have substantially inferior squads.

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If you can get the same results but with substantially better style, why would you sign up to the excruciating boredom that is Allegri's plan?

There is your problem. You dont think we could be potentially worse if we play attacking because you see it as some problem free solution. You point to PSG but look what they have done with their "style". What about Pep? We have been more succesful than both of them in last 5 years with less talent so you can want style which is fine but dont make some elementary claim that results arent effected by changes in system and not playing to your strengths

 

[juve103423]

We may currently have the best, or one of the squads around, but let's not exaggerate. Those teams had worldclass players in every department, whilst our midfield is a clear weakness that can't even compete with our own mid from 4 years ago.

Yes our mid is not the best, but especially Barca also had some 'weak' spots. We have 9 players who are all among top 3 best in their positions.
Szczesny, Chiellini, Bonucci, Cancelo, Sandro, Costa, Cuadrado, Ronaldo, Dybala. And our depth is insane as well.

I'd say it is not far off, individually

 

[Post Ironic]

Cuadrado, Costa, Sandro, Bonucci are not top 3 best in their positions in football. Far too inconsistent for that. Lol

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Well, if Max can't maximize this squad and take it to the max then maybe the maximum this club can achieve is 2nd place in CL.

@Fr3sh

Look at this ‘Murican doubting EuroMaxx’s greatness. He gonna lead us to 4 straight CL titles once Paratici signs him Mfappe and Saul.

 

[IlCapitano]

So if you say that Allegri doesn't have a switch other coaches don't have, then why should I not be worried? If he doesn't have any extra advantage in the spring as first claimed before changing the story. That's the point. The fact is that the currently best squad in the world, has great great trouble stringing 3 passes together in attack, are not anywhere near a coherent starting 11 or even formation, filling in players in awkward position where they end up standing in eachothers way. It seems like we are randomly trying many things at the same time and won't ever know what worked and what didn't. I'm not sure this is one of Allegris forces.
Things can change and I also think we will have a good CL run this year. But as things stand, I wouldn't put us as favourite for the title, based on current play. Before the season I would.

I dont know what coach would do better, it's really hard to say what coaches are good contrary to football players, but I think there is so much more potential in this team than it currently shows. So I hope Allegri sacrifices a goat and switches on in March.

No one claimed our form in spring will be the extra advantage. It's just a simple statement that team's best is expected then. Why is this so hard to understand? There is no magical switches or solutions, there is no secret advantage. This is not a straight line road or game. All you can do is put yourself and your players in the best possible position come that time and play and hope and cheer or whatever.

 

[juve103423]

You will struggle to find 3 players in all 4 positions, that are better and more 'consistent'. Now you are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. And even if you manage to find 3 in each position, then it doesnt change my statement much. We simply have one of the best squads ever. Pjanic recently said so as well. But there is a big difference RIGHT NOW, in terms of squad quality, and how good and effective our football is. It has been effective enough so far though.

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No one claimed our form in spring will be the extra advantage. It's just a simple statement that team's best is expected then. Why is this so hard to understand? There is no magical switches or solutions, there is no secret advantage. This is not a straight line road or game. All you can do is put yourself and your players in the best possible position come that time and play and hope and cheer or whatever.

Exactly, so now you are not disagreeing after all. No magic Allegri powers that favors us in March over other teams. So 'IF' we play poor football now (lets say if for the sake of argument), then it is also reason for worry, as we are very close to those important games, and we cant necessarily expect us to suddenly play effectively like the Barca and Real teams who has dominated CL recently.

 

[IlCapitano]

Exactly, so now you are not disagreeing after all. No magic Allegri powers that favors us in March over other teams. So 'IF' we play poor football now (lets say if for the sake of argument), then it is also reason for worry, as we are very close to those important games, and we cant necessarily expect us to suddenly play effectively like the Barca and Real teams who has dominated CL recently.

LOL no I'm not agreeing. I never said there were magic Allegri powers. You're taking a simple factual statement about football in general out of context to try and make fun of Allegri.

We're not playing poor football. Numbers show we have a very good passing game, play possession football, create tons of chances and miss most of them. Lack of chances is not the problem, conversion is.

Your problem is the way Juve play is 'ugly', 'slow', 'boring' to you and you conflate that with 'bad' football because you think Juve only create because they have these great individuals who have to do everything by themselves because their coach is clueless offensively. But your bigger problem is that facts show Juventus create chances by passing, not dribbling into them. Juventus is at the top in passing, yet none of their players are anywhere near the top dribblers in effectiveness or volume. It's pretty clear to anyone who's watching without bias.

In short - stop confusing taste and quality. Everyone here will be better off.

 

[Post Ironic]

LOL no I'm not agreeing. I never said there were magic Allegri powers. You're taking a simple factual statement about football in general out of context to try and make fun of Allegri.

We're not playing poor football. Numbers show we have a very good passing game, play possession football, create tons of chances and miss most of them. Lack of chances is not the problem, conversion is.

Your problem is the way Juve play is 'ugly', 'slow', 'boring' to you and you conflate that with 'bad' football because you think Juve only create because they have these great individuals who have to do everything by themselves because their coach is clueless offensively. But your bigger problem is that facts show Juventus create chances by passing, not dribbling into them. Juventus is at the top in passing, yet none of their players are anywhere near the top dribblers in effectiveness or volume. It's pretty clear to anyone who's watching without bias.

In short - stop confusing taste and quality. Everyone here we'll be better off.

Agree 100%. Great post.

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No one claimed our form in spring will be the extra advantage. It's just a simple statement that team's best is expected then. Why is this so hard to understand? There is no magical switches or solutions, there is no secret advantage. This is not a straight line road or game. All you can do is put yourself and your players in the best possible position come that time and play and hope and cheer or whatever.

Yep. Some seem to ignore the entire field of sport science, periodization, and peaking.

No manager worth their salt wants their team peaking in September-December, or tried to have their team peaking for 9 months straight. It’s just not possible. The team does more fitness work in the autumn, Allegri tinkers more, players learn to play with each other, and there is a progression... and if Allegri and his staff get things right the team rounds into top form and peaks for the last 3 months of the season, which is generally why Allegri has had his teams performing at their best after the winter break, following some very slow starts.

It’s also what Zidane did so well when he took over at Madrid. 2 of 3 years his team failed to top their CL group, and had poor starts in the league. And yet somehow he had them at their best for the CL knockouts. Must be that magic switch though.

 

[edgardavids2608]

Every good coach will prioritize finding the best solution over temporary form or results. Thats what Max is trying to find. Does that mean he has some magic? No,as we witnessed last year sometimes there isnt a great solution to some of the issues we face. I do think this team can be built with no real weaknesses to exploit and Max will get them running smooth. Emre Can can push the long ball more than we have currently had while giving everything Bent has and with Cancelo and Ronaldo getting more comfortable in the squad I see us really improving. I do think Can will be the most interesting part of this improvement

 

[Valerio.]

Pjanic as playmaker isn't working.
I wish I could see Juve playing with

Cancelo-Benatia-Chiellini-Alex Sandro
Can - Matuidi
Pjanic
Costa - Dybala - Ronaldo
​

Letting Pjanic be free to attack and having him move the ball in attack rather than infront of our def.
Can and Matuidi to cover

 

[juve103423]

Please stop the football discussion about Allegri. His tactics are not to be questioned. Almighty mod gordogondor has specifically requested this. Else he will thread ban you, and he not kidding. So please agree with him. This is not on Allegri, so no complaints, it's the players that are shit he says. What a place..

 

[Post Ironic]

@GordoDeCentral

 

[Cronios]

We are tragic...