Massimiliano Allegri (375 Viewers)

[IlCapitano]

I never said they have to be mutually exclusive, but it 100% does not matter in any way shape or form.

Most people would classify Mourinho, Allegri and Simeone football terrorists, yet look at the players that they signed, that wanted to come and play for them. Even if some players care and prefer a certain style that has no bearing on football results. Doesn't prevent you from signing another player equally as good who doesn't care and just wants to win.

 

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[Rockets]

In martial arts or kung-fu, different schools have their own manoeuvres and moves. But the supreme school is always Tai ji, which follows the norm of "no trick is the best trick", or that the ultimate moves are that there are no moves. The formless is the best form.

I'd like our team to interpret a similar kind of style of play: the best style of play is there is no style of play. You can' tell why the team win, whether its due to proper gameplan, strong mentality or just pure luck, but they win.

 

[IlCapitano]

OK Throater

Next time you get a point will be your first.

Your obsession with throating (whatever that is) aside please find me a team that won anything for their style of football. Also count the number of teams in the last 10-15 years only let alone before, of those who had a clear style of play, high pressing, were described as exciting etc and those that were tactical, pragmatic, slow, unexciting and tell me the number of trophies each group won please.

 

[juve123]

In martial arts or kung-fu, different schools have their own manoeuvres and moves. But the supreme school is always Tai ji, which follows the norm of "no trick is the best trick", or that the ultimate moves are that there are no moves. The formless is the best form.

I'd like our team to interpret a similar kind of style of play: the best style of play is there is no style of play. You can' tell why the team win, whether its due to proper gameplan, strong mentality or just pure luck, but they win.

“I think it helped that Liverpool were easier to decipher than the others, because they have a very clear identity and we could prepare the way that we did. We knew what strategy to take — don't give them space behind the defence to run into.” Ancelotti

 

[Bjerknes]

But you said it doesn't matter. It actually does matter. Attractive play and big names will ostensibly lead to greater success and more commercial success in the process.

Do you remember the Juventus of Davids, Zidane, and Del Piero? I do. We played some mesmerizing football and achieved results. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Those Zizou and Del Piero combinations were probably my favorite times ever as a fan, so beautiful to watch. But even the wing backs got involved despite not always being so clever. But even when Zizou was sold and Nedved stepped in, we still played a balanced game and there was some good movement in the attacking phase. This was 20 years ago by the way, and the game has certainly changed since then.

To say it doesn't matter what style you play is one of the most retarded things I've ever read on this forum, for multiple reasons.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Do you remember the Juventus of Davids, Zidane, and Del Piero? I do. We played some mesmerizing football and achieved results. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

If we had Del Piero, Zidane and Davids in the squad now the football would be better as well me thinks.

 

[lgorTudor]

Is it effective? So far, yes.

Excuse me Ser, is JJ leading the table while being a regular in CL SF?

Don't you dare add Max to the 'ugly but successful style' list until this is the case.

The argumentation of everybody in bread is flawed:

Throater argumentation is flawed because they're trying to frame Max as result guy but JJ are playing EL while Napoli win Scudetto.
Boyz argumentation is flawed because playstyle is a dogshit talking point. Winners are always right, even if they win 38 games with 38 shots on target.

Conclusion: Never ever will I not regret coming to allegri bread

 

[IlCapitano]

Those Zizou and Del Piero combinations were probably my favorite times ever as a fan, so beautiful to watch. But even the wing backs got involved despite not always being so clever. But even when Zizou was sold and Nedved stepped in, we still played a balanced game and there was some good movement in the attacking phase. This was 20 years ago by the way, and the game has certainly changed since then.

To say it doesn't matter what style you play is one of the most retarded things I've ever read on this forum, for multiple reasons.

Again, in which objective metric do exciting, fast teams win more than the others? That's what I am talking about, not disagreeing that exciting style of play is more enjoyable.

Prime example of Juventus this season - no change in style of play but we win more now than we did in the beginning.

Zero relevance to anything other than aesthetics. ZERO. No correlation between results and style of play, never was, never will be.

 

[Bjerknes]

Next time you get a point will be your first.

Your obsession with throating (whatever that is) aside please find me a team that won anything for their style of football. Also count the number of teams in the last 10-15 years only let alone before, of those who had a clear style of play, high pressing, were described as exciting etc and those that were tactical, pragmatic, slow, unexciting and tell me the number of trophies each group won please.

I don't even know why I'm bothering, but just look at the CL winners and most of the runners up of the past 20 years. The last winner that mostly had a defensive approach was Mou's Inter in 2010. Simeone made the final with his negative football, but didn't end up winning either. The vast majority of them were either possession-based or very balanced sides. Even Allegri's second placers featured more balanced football than what we currently see today at this club.

If it doesn't matter how teams play, then why bother paying coaches millions of Euros a year, just send out the players to figure it out themselves. Obviously you're an Allegri fan, but I'm sure your statement that is solely based on defending Allegri to a ridiculous degree is something HE wouldn't even agree with.

 

[Clamarc]

Next time you get a point will be your first.

Your obsession with throating (whatever that is) aside please find me a team that won anything for their style of football. Also count the number of teams in the last 10-15 years only let alone before, of those who had a clear style of play, high pressing, were described as exciting etc and those that were tactical, pragmatic, slow, unexciting and tell me the number of trophies each group won please.

Is this dude dumb or something?
Last 10 years of UCL literally dominated by Barca and Madrid. Bayern and Pool were the other winners. They all play aggresive attacking football when they won.
Only Chelsea that won with pragmatical approach, and maybe Madrid last year. Now count it yourself

 

[IlCapitano]

I don't even know why I'm bothering, but just look at the CL winners and most of the runners up of the past 20 years. The last winner that mostly had a defensive approach was Mou's Inter in 2010. Simeone made the final with his negative football, but didn't end up winning either. The vast majority of them were either possession-based or very balanced sides. Even Allegri's second placers featured more balanced football than what we currently see today at this club.

If it doesn't matter how teams play, then why bother paying coaches millions of Euros a year, just send out the players to figure it out themselves. Obviously you're an Allegri fan, but I'm sure your statement that is solely based on defending Allegri to a ridiculous degree is something HE wouldn't even agree with.

"Next time you get a point will be your first."

How you play (quality) and style (aesthetics) have nothing to do with each other. I didn't say you don't have to be balanced, in fact that is the most important thing of all.

The only winners in CL or domestic leagues that were truly universally exciting and praised for their style of football were Pep, Klopp teams, Bayern and Barca. On the other hand you have many more teams with slower football, pragmatic, tactical, balanced. Just like Allegri was when he had good and balanced teams.

 

[Mokku]

If you look at us in terms of bang for buck over the last 4 years, we've got to be near the bottom. That takes into account the number of goals scored and chances created, trophies, performance in European competitions, Vlahovic price, and salary for injured players. This is a management problem but Allegri takes some of the blame too.

 

[Nejc]

Next time you get a point will be your first.

Your obsession with throating (whatever that is) aside please find me a team that won anything for their style of football. Also count the number of teams in the last 10-15 years only let alone before, of those who had a clear style of play, high pressing, were described as exciting etc and those that were tactical, pragmatic, slow, unexciting and tell me the number of trophies each group won please.

Last 15 CL winners I would classify 3 out of 15 as slow and defense-based (Inter in 09/10 and Chelsea in 11/12 and 20-21 eventho latter one not that much) and maybe another 3 as defense oriented, others were all high scoring possesion based teams. I cant be bothered to count domestic titles of top leagues but its mostly Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG and City winning so cant be much different. Except of course in Italy where nobody played “exciting”football for a decade anyway

 

[IlCapitano]

Is this dude dumb or something?
Last 10 years of UCL literally dominated by Barca and Madrid. Bayern and Pool were the other winners. They all play aggresive attacking football when they won.
Only Chelsea that won with pragmatical approach, and maybe Madrid last year. Now count it yourself

But again, they didn't win for their style of football. RM won with like 10 different approaches each year. They were counter attacking under Ancelotti both times, possession based under Zidane, sometimes simply overpowering with player quality.

Barca crushed everyone one year then the next one with the same style of play was embarrassed. Klopp dominated teams until the final then parked the bus and countered Tottenham to death in the final. Zidane would change things from half to half.

Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

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Last 15 CL winners I would classify 3 out of 15 as slow and defense-based (Inter in 09/10 and Chelsea in 11/12 and 20-21 eventho latter one not that much) and maybe another 3 as defense oriented, others were all high scoring possesion based teams. I cant be bothered to count domestic titles of top leagues but its mostly Bayern, Real, Barca, PSG and City winning so cant be much different. Except of course in Italy where nobody played “exciting”football for a decade anyway

I didn't say teams with prettier style don't win a lot, we can discuss each of those winners and multiple people will have different perception of each of those teams simply because it's taste, everyone looks at it differently and likes different styles.

But none of them won because of their style. All those teams had the best or one of the best rosters in the world, good coaches, good chemistry, mentality etc. RM won it a lot, almost each time with a different style, but players and quality stayed the same.

You replace Mourinho with Guardiola in 2010 Inter can still win the title. Replace Heynckess with Mourinho and they are still favorites to win.

If style mattered Mourinho would never win anything and Bielsa would be the GOAT, Napoli would've ruled Italy the past decade not us etc.

That is my entire point - Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

 

[U Picciriddu]

This discussion makes me remember Allegri’s infamous quote: giocare bene? Non so cosa vuol dire

 

[Nejc]

@IlCapitano Fair enough, obviously in the end a win is a win, still the teams that can maintain possesion and routinely created chances tend to win so unless you play as a huge underdog (in that case its damage control at best anyway) starting games with a conservative mindset is setting yourself for failure

 

[juve123]

But again, they didn't win for their style of football. RM won with like 10 different approaches each year. They were counter attacking under Ancelotti both times, possession based under Zidane, sometimes simply overpowering with player quality.

Barca crushed everyone one year then the next one with the same style of play was embarrassed. Klopp dominated teams until the final then parked the bus and countered Tottenham to death in the final. Zidane would change things from half to half.

Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

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I didn't say teams with prettier style don't win a lot, we can discuss each of those winners and multiple people will have different perception of each of those teams simply because it's taste, everyone looks at it differently and likes different styles.

But none of them won because of their style. All those teams had the best or one of the best rosters in the world, good coaches, good chemistry, mentality etc. RM won it a lot, almost each time with a different style, but players and quality stayed the same.

You replace Mourinho with Guardiola in 2010 Inter can still win the title. Replace Heynckess with Mourinho and they are still favorites to win.

If style mattered Mourinho would never win anything and Bielsa would be the GOAT, Napoli would've ruled Italy the past decade not us etc.

That is my entire point - Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

Isn't it one of the two styles either possession based football or counter attacking football that you need to do well in Europe. Allegri next focus must be offensive part of our game after bringing defensive stability in our game.

 

[s4tch]

Conclusion: Never ever will I not regret coming to allegri bread

this

i started my previous post with "a bit reluctant to post in this cancer thread" for a reason. turns out i still overrate tuz

Those Zizou and Del Piero combinations were probably my favorite times ever as a fan, so beautiful to watch.

oh well. now we have kean and mckennie, all they need is a proper coach to make the combine

 

[Juve92]

But again, they didn't win for their style of football. RM won with like 10 different approaches each year. They were counter attacking under Ancelotti both times, possession based under Zidane, sometimes simply overpowering with player quality.

Barca crushed everyone one year then the next one with the same style of play was embarrassed. Klopp dominated teams until the final then parked the bus and countered Tottenham to death in the final. Zidane would change things from half to half.

Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

- - - Updated - - -


I didn't say teams with prettier style don't win a lot, we can discuss each of those winners and multiple people will have different perception of each of those teams simply because it's taste, everyone looks at it differently and likes different styles.

But none of them won because of their style. All those teams had the best or one of the best rosters in the world, good coaches, good chemistry, mentality etc. RM won it a lot, almost each time with a different style, but players and quality stayed the same.

You replace Mourinho with Guardiola in 2010 Inter can still win the title. Replace Heynckess with Mourinho and they are still favorites to win.

If style mattered Mourinho would never win anything and Bielsa would be the GOAT, Napoli would've ruled Italy the past decade not us etc.

That is my entire point - Quality of players, quality of coaching, team chemistry and motivation, mentality, health, luck, refs etc etc. all decide games, then if you have a pretty style of play it's a bonus. Nobody ever had a lesser team then went on to beat stronger teams because of their style.

This guy

 

[Bjerknes]

"Next time you get a point will be your first."

How you play (quality) and style (aesthetics) have nothing to do with each other. I didn't say you don't have to be balanced, in fact that is the most important thing of all.

The only winners in CL or domestic leagues that were truly universally exciting and praised for their style of football were Pep, Klopp teams, Bayern and Barca. On the other hand you have many more teams with slower football, pragmatic, tactical, balanced. Just like Allegri was when he had good and balanced teams.

Which top 5 league winners over the past decade, other than Juventus, deployed a slow, mostly defensive approach? Liverpool, City, Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea, et cetera. Even Conte's Chelsea didn't sit back and hope to nick a 1-0. Even Leicester City had a balanced game and wasn't just sit back and hope like the current Juventus stilo.

There's a difference between being balanced and being outright god-awful to watch, which is what we are. We don't have much quality either, unless you prefer watching 11 men behind the ball.

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If people prefer to sit back and defend all game long because that's the style they enjoy, fine, whatever. But don't blow smoke up people's asses by normalizing farting around for 85 minutes struggling against inferior opponents at home is something acceptable. The whole point of the game is to score and win.