Massimiliano Allegri (460 Viewers)

[campionesidd]

Just leaving some facts here - I am neither an Allegri Throater nor a Hater btw.

The Juventus of Allegri finished with 8 points less than that of Pirlo (70 against 78), losing 2 more games (8), scoring 20 fewer goals (57-77) while conceding the same number of goals.

Our exit in the CL was far more humiliating, as we were humbled 3-0 at home, conceding three goals in under 15 minutes.

All that is true, but context matters. Pirlo had Chiesa and Ronaldo banging in the goals all season. Max had an unfit/injured Chiesa and no real goalscorer till we signed Vlahovic in late January. The injuries in midfield really wrecked us too.
We qualified for the CL with 3 games to go, unlike last year where we had to rely for Napoli to fuck up on the last match day to take the final spot. Subsequently, the last 3-4 games this year were meaningless, where we dropped a ton of points.

That said, Max isn’t blameless. His style was too passive in most games, and we lost too many points from winning positions. In the past, even when we played defensively, we used to be in control of the game, which hasn’t been the case this year. In games where we fell behind, we didn’t show the ‘fino alla fine’ mentality and gave up too easily.

It’s clear that Max isn’t great at rebuilding teams. He did a mediocre job this season. I’d still back him by buying Pogba, a couple of wingers and a fullback because he has shown that with a functional squad, he can work wonders. If next season is more of the same, then yes, he needs to go.

 

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[Bianconero81]

All that is true, but context matters. Pirlo had Chiesa and Ronaldo banging in the goals all season. Max had an unfit/injured Chiesa and no real goalscorer till we signed Vlahovic in late January. The injuries in midfield really wrecked us too.
We qualified for the CL with 3 games to go, unlike last year where we had to rely for Napoli to fuck up on the last match day to take the final spot. Subsequently, the last 3-4 games this year were meaningless, where we dropped a ton of points.

That said, Max isn’t blameless. His style was too passive in most games, and we lost too many points from winning positions. In the past, even when we played defensively, we used to be in control of the game, which hasn’t been the case this year. In games where we fell behind, we didn’t show the ‘fino alla fine’ mentality and gave up too easily.

It’s clear that Max isn’t great at rebuilding teams. He did a mediocre job this season. I’d still back him by buying Pogba, a couple of wingers and a fullback because he has shown that with a functional squad, he can work wonders. If next season is more of the same, then yes, he needs to go.

I acknowledge. Thank you for your input good sir.

 

[Post Ironic]

It's interesting to see how 2 players performed before and after Juve.

Kulu scored and assisted every 187 mintues under Allegri and scored and assisted every 87 minutes under Conte.

The same goes for Vlahovic except his numbers were way better in his first team.

These are the details that worry me more than results.

Vlahovic took penalties at Viola. He didn’t at Juve. His non-penalty goals/90 were 0.59 at Juve and 0.58 at Fiorentina. And that’s here without a preseason, and without a single game beside our best attacker, Chiesa. Hopefully that’s indicative that he’ll do a lot better next year in a more functional, healthy side. We really need to get our fitness issues sorted more than anything else

 

[kappa96]

Pellegrini and Kean want to leave, Pellegrini due to playing time and for Kean probably the same.

Pellegrini was doing better than Sandro, so badly managed by Allegri. Kean hardly better than Morata but he’s younger and a kid from the club. On both occasions Max should’ve done better. I’d really dislike keeping Sandro over Pellegrini.

Good. Both are not good enough for Juve.
Pellegrini is at most an emergency backup.
He should never be a starter for a club like juventus.

 

[kappa96]

It's interesting to see how 2 players performed before and after Juve.

Kulu scored and assisted every 187 mintues under Allegri and scored and assisted every 87 minutes under Conte.

The same goes for Vlahovic except his numbers were way better in his first team.

These are the details that worry me more than results.

You should also count on club pressure when analyzing player performance.
Tottenham is considered a second tier club in England.
There you don't have teams that park the bus all game and hit on the counter like most of them do against Juve in Italy.
Because we are so used to winning every year, the pressure of delivering results is sky high every match.
We as a club don't have time nor the patience to watch kulu and benta make mistakes every game, in the hope that some day they will become good.

You have to understand that some players aren't cut out to handle the pressure of playing for big clubs.
If you don't believe me just ask Lord Berna.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Good. Both are not good enough for Juve.
Pellegrini is at most an emergency backup.
He should never be a starter for a club like juventus.

Both will become very useful players, but of course we prefer a loanee and a underperforming dude on unbelievable high wages over them.

 

[Hist]

You should also count on club pressure when analyzing player performance.
Tottenham is considered a second tier club in England.
There you don't have teams that park the bus all game and hit on the counter like most of them do against Juve in Italy.
Because we are so used to winning every year, the pressure of delivering results is sky high every match.
We as a club don't have time nor the patience to watch kulu and benta make mistakes every game, in the hope that some day they will become good.

You have to understand that some players aren't cut out to handle the pressure of playing for big clubs.
If you don't believe me just ask Lord Berna.

Teams don't park the bus against Juve, we hand them possession and park the bus ourselves.

 

[GiocataGrande]

All that is true, but context matters. Pirlo had Chiesa and Ronaldo banging in the goals all season. Max had an unfit/injured Chiesa and no real goalscorer till we signed Vlahovic in late January. The injuries in midfield really wrecked us too.
We qualified for the CL with 3 games to go, unlike last year where we had to rely for Napoli to fuck up on the last match day to take the final spot. Subsequently, the last 3-4 games this year were meaningless, where we dropped a ton of points.

That said, Max isn’t blameless. His style was too passive in most games, and we lost too many points from winning positions. In the past, even when we played defensively, we used to be in control of the game, which hasn’t been the case this year. In games where we fell behind, we didn’t show the ‘fino alla fine’ mentality and gave up too easily.

It’s clear that Max isn’t great at rebuilding teams. He did a mediocre job this season. I’d still back him by buying Pogba, a couple of wingers and a fullback because he has shown that with a functional squad, he can work wonders. If next season is more of the same, then yes, he needs to go.

Thank you for a reasonable and calm-headed assessment. Much needed

 

[Orgut]

It's interesting to see how 2 players performed before and after Juve.

Kulu scored and assisted every 187 mintues under Allegri and scored and assisted every 87 minutes under Conte.

The same goes for Vlahovic except his numbers were way better in his first team.

These are the details that worry me more than results.

Are you suggesting that Tottenham`s style suits Kulu better? If you do then you are right...
Vlahovic - Give him some time - He just arrived lately and its not as he is doing bad. Assess him next year

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Just leaving some facts here - I am neither an Allegri Throater nor a Hater btw.

The Juventus of Allegri finished with 8 points less than that of Pirlo (70 against 78), losing 2 more games (8), scoring 20 fewer goals (57-77) while conceding the same number of goals.

Our exit in the CL was far more humiliating, as we were humbled 3-0 at home, conceding three goals in under 15 minutes.

Not a huge fan or a hater myself but I dont think the situation is comparable
Allegri had Ronaldo less squad and Vlahovic arrived in mid season.
Also the Villareal game was a bit weird as we were doing well until we conceded which opened it for more goals. I really dont think we played badly in this one.

 

[U Picciriddu]

No preseason, first day on the job and not having Locatelli are good arguments for Pirlo too

In handsight, Allegri did worse but everyone knows that he’s capable of doing a lot better.

 

[Orgut]

No preseason, first day on the job and not having Locatelli are good arguments for Pirlo too

In handsight, Allegri did worse but everyone knows that he’s capable of doing a lot better.

Yap Pirlo didnt have Locatelli but he had Ronaldo who has a much bigger impact on a team.
Then again Sarri was Locatelliless himself yet still managed to bring the Scudetto..

Anyway excuses aside - it doesnt really matter.. Allegri will stay here should we like it or not so we just have to wait and hope for a much better season.

 

[juve123]

Yap Pirlo didnt have Locatelli but he had Ronaldo who has a much bigger impact on a team.
Then again Sarri was Locatelliless himself yet still managed to bring the Scudetto..

Anyway excuses aside - it doesnt really matter.. Allegri will stay here should we like it or not so we just have to wait and hope for a much better season.

Pirlo won just one game without Ronaldo shows how dependant and dysfunctional this team has become.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

.

I remember why I wanted him out after his last season. How cathartic we played and the total lack of style or identity. It seemed like he was declining at that point and with much better players than what we have today/might get this window.

Makes one wonder if he was the right choice to be the man who takes a utterly broken disorganized squad and gives them an identity and play style. Atm I’m leaning more towards no but we’ll see.

 

[juve123]

.

I remember why I wanted him out after his last season. How cathartic we played and the total lack of style or identity. It seemed like he was declining at that point and with much better players than what we have today/might get this window.

Makes one wonder if he was the right choice to be the man who takes a utterly broken disorganized squad and gives them an identity and play style. Atm I’m leaning more towards no but we’ll see.

And Vincenzo Italiano has low release clause atleast we will have a manager with a higher ceiling than Allegri.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Is Italiano the grass is always greener guy? I don’t understand the praising.

 

[Orgut]

Is Italiano the grass is always greener guy? I don’t understand the praising.

He took Fiorentina to Europe and there are stronger teams I guess. He deserves praise even if obviously he is being hyped right now.

 

[Strickland]

Fiorentina had been underperforming for years though, in terms of resources in the past decade theyve always been right behind the big 6 of Juve, Inter, Milan, Napoli, Roma and Lazio

 

[juve_juve_juve]

Allegri does not need to prove himself or his football brand... We had great football with him before and great results .. until we did a mistake signing Ronaldo instead of mid improvement

Lets hope next year will be the year to break those Milanese inflated heads first , then break our bad luck in CL before they ban us forever

ps: great football means effective Italian football or balanced football

I don't know about what other people saw with allegriball but I already saw glimpses of the jihadball from way before Agnelli signed Ronaldo, 2 matches that I remember in particular

1. The home match against Bayern in 2016
2. The home match against Tottenham somewhere down the line after the above I don't remember the date/year.

So for me, Allegri has shown us 4 different jihadballs with 4 different teams that had 4 different player compositions no matter how good or how bad the players were. (In case whoever read this doesn't get it, the other 2 jihadballs are from the last time Allegri was here before and obviously in the season we just saw)

So for me and perhaps others like me, I see no reason to be optimistic, especially considering that we've been historically having troubles acquiring players that we need or should sign. I have this feeling that even if you gave Allegri both Zidane and ronaldinho in their prime, his team would somehow still plays jihadball, maybe not as bad as what we witnessed here but I think what would happen is that the general fans would point out that the team should be capable of playing much better football that what we all would see from that team coached by allegri.

 

[Mokku]

Serie A has a lot of good managers who punch above their weight, most likely because of the lack of pressure. The better coaches like Inzaghi, Sarri, and Spaletti can't handle pressure at all particularly in Europe. That is the difference between them and Allegri.

You can argue that Allegri isn't top line but he has punched above his weight against the European elite which is far above what other Italians have done recently excluding Ancelotti and Mancini on the international level.

My frustration is that Allegri can do better but he doesn't help himself when he does those shitty defensive moves like the Coppa final because if Inter can can take advantage, then we'll be slaughtered in Europe.

In a way I'm happy that next season Allegri will have to sweat for the title, having weak competition in Italy has dropped us into Porto/Villarreal/Benfica tier and even that is debatable. He needs to improve, we spend a lot of money and it's time to get to CL semi finals regularly because from then on, we might get lucky. No excuses next season in Italy at least.

 

[Vlad]

It's interesting to see how 2 players performed before and after Juve.

Kulu scored and assisted every 187 mintues under Allegri and scored and assisted every 87 minutes under Conte.

The same goes for Vlahovic except his numbers were way better in his first team.

These are the details that worry me more than results.

Check the Vlahovic thread for correct stats about his goal per game ratio. Pretty much equal, if u exclude penalty goals since he doesnt take them at Juve. So this is just another myth about players getting ruined here....