out now?


  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .

Juve_fanatic

Second coolest member!
Apr 5, 2006
7,618
Allegri has been 10/10 so far. Amazing. If only our players stayed more concentrated and composed in some.crucial moments like Khedira should have last.night in front of.goal or the whole team against Frosinone when they scored in the 93rd minute
 

CrimsonianKing

Count Mbangula
Jan 16, 2013
27,321
Not only are we getting better, but its actually a sign of progress that we didnt actually lose a big away game in Serie A again after the Napoli and Roma losses lol

In all seriousness, a draw at San Siro against Inter (a very motivated Inter I might add) isnt a bad result at all really. The bad results were the monumental fuck ups against Chievo, Udinese and Frosinone (especially). I feel we have got those shitty results out of our system now and the team will improve and go on a run of wins soon. We have a nicer looking run over the next 6-7 games, and IMO we will pick up a lot of points. Roma/Inter/Napoli away in the first 8 rounds with a new team was always going to be a tough task. I cant wait til we get those bitches at JS later on in the season.
I look at the table and can't have this optimism. We absolutely dominated the second half, a win was a must. It's not a sign of progress just because we didn't lose.
 

Bianconero_Aus

Beppe Marotta Is My God
May 26, 2009
80,968
I look at the table and can't have this optimism. We absolutely dominated the second half, a win was a must. It's not a sign of progress just because we didn't lose.
I'm optimistic. Our three toughest away trips are out of the way for the season. Only maybe Fiorentina away will be as tough, and that's not for another 4-5 months. I personally think we have progressed since the Napoli loss. We look more compact and solid. Only lacking consistent finishing, which will come when Morata/Mandzukic are 100%.
 

CrimsonianKing

Count Mbangula
Jan 16, 2013
27,321
I'm optimistic. Our three toughest away trips are out of the way for the season. Only maybe Fiorentina away will be as tough, and that's not for another 4-5 months. I personally think we have progressed since the Napoli loss. We look more compact and solid. Only lacking consistent finishing, which will come when Morata/Mandzukic are 100%.
I don't quite agree, Cuadrado is pretty much our only connection between our mid and attack. Without this guy creating something out of nothing we'd be playing a football that doesn't correspond to the players we have. And worse yet, Dybala keeps being benched time and time again.

I'm not even gonna comment on our finishing, 9 goals in 8 matches is embarassing in itself. I don't see this progress you're talking about, i want results. Having more defeats and draws than wins is a huge disaster. Sure, we might grab more points as easier matches are on the way but our adversaries should too.
 

Hydde

Minimiliano Tristelli
Mar 6, 2003
38,985
I have to agree with the cuadrado part. Just take him out and this team will turn into and even saddder mockery going forward.

Im not a half empty glass guy, but the table is starting to get ugly and the fixtures are passing.
We cant afford continue losing points.

One point from inter at meazza is not bad at all, but we are getting to the point that we must win those games that we could afford to draw before, and this is definitely bad.
 

Kopanja

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5,594
Yep, without Dybala and Pogba playing like the first half with merda we are very ugly going forward.
At least second half Pogba + Dybala could really turn the things around I think.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,499
People here underestimate how troublesome it is that Allegri seems to have no plan whatsoever for the attack, no practiced patterns and specific style of approach to unlock thinks. He is too carefree and play with freedom type of coach offensively. It worked with a Tevez because you just give him free reign and he wrecks havoc. While with Conte he was little more restricted (shadow Llorente, but besides Tevez the whole team in robotic kind of fashion knew exactly how to play and move offensively and it worked for them (the attackers job was to involve the midfielders running into open channels). Trained patterns. No sign of that with Allegri and it's worrying because it relies way too much on individual decisiveness from young players playing under big pressure to perform, and things get to become too predictable when it's too individualistic. Especially right now when it's all about Cuadrado. It becomes an issue since players have off days or don't click, while a specific way to approach things/to create more clear chances can be drilled in to increase effectiveness when some players aren't up for it to do it all.

Even more worrying when he isn't all that willing to give a sustained period of time for our best attacking duo to gel together, plus hampers it more even more when tactics been changed too often besides personnel.


In essence I wouldn't mind seeing little more guidance in our offensive game from the coach to increase our ability to create better chances consistently (we certainly not doing that nearly enough, wouldn't need to rely on hail Mary shots if we were), especially how to best use and handle Pogba who is our biggiest asset, but so far it doesn't seem like he has a plan or approach for him to get him to step up to what he used to he.

If all that is too much to ask, since he specially said in the past he doesn't believe in being too tactical in such matters, then the least you can expect is not limit our chances by grooming our best attackers to play together as much as possible.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,801
People here underestimate how troublesome it is that Allegri seems to have no plan whatsoever for the attack, no practiced patterns and specific style of approach to unlock thinks. He is too carefree and play with freedom type of coach offensively. It worked with a Tevez because you just give him free reign and he wrecks havoc. While with Conte he was little more restricted (shadow Llorente, but besides Tevez the whole team in robotic kind of fashion knew exactly how to play and move offensively and it worked for them (the attackers job was to involve the midfielders running into open channels). Trained patterns. No sign of that with Allegri and it's worrying because it relies way too much on individual decisiveness from young players playing under big pressure to perform, and things get to become too predictable when it's too individualistic. Especially right now when it's all about Cuadrado. It becomes an issue since players have off days or don't click, while a specific way to approach things/to create more clear chances can be drilled in to increase effectiveness when some players aren't up for it to do it all.

Even more worrying when he isn't all that willing to give a sustained period of time for our best attacking duo to gel together, plus hampers it more even more when tactics been changed too often besides personnel.


In essence I wouldn't mind seeing little more guidance in our offensive game from the coach to increase our ability to create better chances consistently (we certainly not doing that nearly enough, wouldn't need to rely on hail Mary shots if we were), especially how to best use and handle Pogba who is our biggiest asset, but so far it doesn't seem like he has a plan or approach for him to get him to step up to what he used to he.

If all that is too much to ask, since he specially said in the past he doesn't believe in being too tactical in such matters, then the least you can expect is not limit our chances by grooming our best attackers to play together as much as possible.
:tup: and the problem with that approach is that it exponentially gets worse every time we failed to deliver
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,499
Exactly -It becomes a vicious cycle since they get too eager to impress and try to do it all when they dont have a specific gameplan of how they should attack as a unit, and the more they fail the less they believe in themselves. Which as said, can become a vicious cycle since its all about individualistic type of approach when attacking. More so with new players who arent still not too used to eachother, which means they need guidance from their coach alot more then last years bunch did that still had an autopilot kind of approach to their game.


Its easy to give more freedom to players that already know how to play together (main difference was they played less wide/crossing style then they did with Conte last season, and Tevez more free, but rest seemed to be the same routine). But what its a task of a real proper coach to get his shit in order and show what a bunch that have little idea of how they should function as a unit in attacking phase should play like. Winging it, as it seems to be so far, is surely not been good enough. How many times we shoot is not good measuring stick as said several times before, on the contrary bit of a sign of desperation. They defenitely need to be more calm and effectively create more clear chances and do so as a routine and in set pattern to begin with.

When that is in order, then and only then you should become a bit more free and can afford to be a bit more indvidualistic in your approach.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,801
Exactly -It becomes a vicious cycle since they get too eager to impress and try to do it all when they dont have a specific gameplan of how they should attack as a unit, and the more they fail the less they believe in themselves. Which as said, can become a vicious cycle since its all about individualistic type of approach when attacking. More so with new players who arent still not too used to eachother, which means they need guidance from their coach alot more then last years bunch did that still had an autopilot kind of approach to their game.


Its easy to give more freedom to players that already know how to play together (main difference was they played less wide/crossing style then they did with Conte last season, and Tevez more free, but rest seemed to be the same routine). But what its a task of a real proper coach to get his shit in order and show what a bunch that have little idea of how they should function as a unit in attacking phase should play like. Winging it, as it seems to be so far, is surely not been good enough. How many times we shoot is not good measuring stick as said several times before, on the contrary bit of a sign of desperation. They defenitely need to be more calm and effectively create more clear chances and do so as a routine and in set pattern to begin with.

When that is in order, then and only then you should become a bit more free and can afford to be a bit more indvidualistic in your approach.
:tup: exactly what i am thinking
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,499
I dont want to cut him too short, but even tho his midfield approach and pragmatic defense/ tactical sense was very good, his attacking in Milan had the same limitations and overall issues we are having now. He needs to impose his style upfront like he does in the rest and build effective gameplan into it, but he couldnt there after Ibra left who he built it entirely around to both create AND score. Midfield was stacked with hardworkers that followed orders (no room for playmakers there, just DMs or box to box types) and attack was set on relying on individual decisiveness and nothing else. When that top quality individual clutch ability is not there anymore, then you start to see the cracks in the approach.

It was more issues with Milan, like losing dressing room etc. But essentially the limitations became clearer when he couldnt rely on that type of decisiveness anymore. Had to see more limited or less proven attackers who need more of a gameplan to function struggling often vs lesser opponents. He still did well in bigger (CL) games where was seen more of an underdog and his overall tactical preparedness and bunkering/adaptive style could come handy in games the players were pumped for. But those conditions arent there in the weekly games vs random league opponents that requires you to take the game to the opponents. The all too predictable wing it approach with zero creativity, where you saw likes of Boateng think he is a true nr 10 and try to do it all himself offensively backfired.

Huge difference in quality, but it kinda reminds me of how Pogba is struggling for us right now, since he is the only midfielder we have thats supposed to make things happen offensively, and he doesnt seem to be equipped for it just to figure things out on his own. Or wait, there is Cuadrado, but that dude doesnt need coaching...Its no suprise he is the new player who immediately just went about his usual way of taking it to the opponents. This dude doesnt need tactics or collective gameplan like most of the rest due to get the best out of them. He is simple, in any system, if you give him the license just to take the ball and beat your man, thats all he will do all day every day, regardless if he is being effective or not in end product. He failed in Chelsea, mostly, besides the very little minutes he got, because he was expected to do alot of tactical and rigid work that he isnt suited for Under Mourinho. The very fact we are relying so heavily on him right now is very worrisome, even if I love the dude to bits already, he is an absolute treat, aslong as he stops shooting...
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,499
“Even the greats have fear,” Prandelli wrote in his column for Calciomercato.

“That’s how we can summarise the match played between Inter and Juventus, which showed that both teams are still searching for the right formula.

“I think the Nerazzurri and the Bianconeri will compete for the Scudetto, but at the moment they rely too much on individuality.

“[Juventus Coach Massimiliano] Allegri has decided to bet on the skill of [Juan] Cuadrado in one-on-one situations, but there’s too little interaction with the midfield.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
People here underestimate how troublesome it is that Allegri seems to have no plan whatsoever for the attack, no practiced patterns and specific style of approach to unlock thinks. He is too carefree and play with freedom type of coach offensively. It worked with a Tevez because you just give him free reign and he wrecks havoc. While with Conte he was little more restricted (shadow Llorente, but besides Tevez the whole team in robotic kind of fashion knew exactly how to play and move offensively and it worked for them (the attackers job was to involve the midfielders running into open channels). Trained patterns. No sign of that with Allegri and it's worrying because it relies way too much on individual decisiveness from young players playing under big pressure to perform, and things get to become too predictable when it's too individualistic. Especially right now when it's all about Cuadrado. It becomes an issue since players have off days or don't click, while a specific way to approach things/to create more clear chances can be drilled in to increase effectiveness when some players aren't up for it to do it all.

Even more worrying when he isn't all that willing to give a sustained period of time for our best attacking duo to gel together, plus hampers it more even more when tactics been changed too often besides personnel.


In essence I wouldn't mind seeing little more guidance in our offensive game from the coach to increase our ability to create better chances consistently (we certainly not doing that nearly enough, wouldn't need to rely on hail Mary shots if we were), especially how to best use and handle Pogba who is our biggiest asset, but so far it doesn't seem like he has a plan or approach for him to get him to step up to what he used to he.

If all that is too much to ask, since he specially said in the past he doesn't believe in being too tactical in such matters, then the least you can expect is not limit our chances by grooming our best attackers to play together as much as possible.
Excellent series of posts, I've thought of Allegri being somewhat of an opposite to Conte for some time, in the way that Allegri gives a lot of freedom to individuals, while Conte sets his team out extremely rigidly.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
People here underestimate how troublesome it is that Allegri seems to have no plan whatsoever for the attack, no practiced patterns and specific style of approach to unlock thinks. He is too carefree and play with freedom type of coach offensively. It worked with a Tevez because you just give him free reign and he wrecks havoc. While with Conte he was little more restricted (shadow Llorente, but besides Tevez the whole team in robotic kind of fashion knew exactly how to play and move offensively and it worked for them (the attackers job was to involve the midfielders running into open channels). Trained patterns. No sign of that with Allegri and it's worrying because it relies way too much on individual decisiveness from young players playing under big pressure to perform, and things get to become too predictable when it's too individualistic. Especially right now when it's all about Cuadrado. It becomes an issue since players have off days or don't click, while a specific way to approach things/to create more clear chances can be drilled in to increase effectiveness when some players aren't up for it to do it all.

Even more worrying when he isn't all that willing to give a sustained period of time for our best attacking duo to gel together, plus hampers it more even more when tactics been changed too often besides personnel.


In essence I wouldn't mind seeing little more guidance in our offensive game from the coach to increase our ability to create better chances consistently (we certainly not doing that nearly enough, wouldn't need to rely on hail Mary shots if we were), especially how to best use and handle Pogba who is our biggiest asset, but so far it doesn't seem like he has a plan or approach for him to get him to step up to what he used to he.

If all that is too much to ask, since he specially said in the past he doesn't believe in being too tactical in such matters, then the least you can expect is not limit our chances by grooming our best attackers to play together as much as possible.
Dude. Fantastic set of posts! Hit the nail right on the proverbial head. :tup:
 

DUKAC

Senior Member
Feb 29, 2012
12,286
I dont want to cut him too short, but even tho his midfield approach and pragmatic defense/ tactical sense was very good, his attacking in Milan had the same limitations and overall issues we are having now. He needs to impose his style upfront like he does in the rest and build effective gameplan into it, but he couldnt there after Ibra left who he built it entirely around to both create AND score. Midfield was stacked with hardworkers that followed orders (no room for playmakers there, just DMs or box to box types) and attack was set on relying on individual decisiveness and nothing else. When that top quality individual clutch ability is not there anymore, then you start to see the cracks in the approach.

It was more issues with Milan, like losing dressing room etc. But essentially the limitations became clearer when he couldnt rely on that type of decisiveness anymore. Had to see more limited or less proven attackers who need more of a gameplan to function struggling often vs lesser opponents. He still did well in bigger (CL) games where was seen more of an underdog and his overall tactical preparedness and bunkering/adaptive style could come handy in games the players were pumped for. But those conditions arent there in the weekly games vs random league opponents that requires you to take the game to the opponents. The all too predictable wing it approach with zero creativity, where you saw likes of Boateng think he is a true nr 10 and try to do it all himself offensively backfired.

Huge difference in quality, but it kinda reminds me of how Pogba is struggling for us right now, since he is the only midfielder we have thats supposed to make things happen offensively, and he doesnt seem to be equipped for it just to figure things out on his own. Or wait, there is Cuadrado, but that dude doesnt need coaching...Its no suprise he is the new player who immediately just went about his usual way of taking it to the opponents. This dude doesnt need tactics or collective gameplan like most of the rest due to get the best out of them. He is simple, in any system, if you give him the license just to take the ball and beat your man, thats all he will do all day every day, regardless if he is being effective or not in end product. He failed in Chelsea, mostly, besides the very little minutes he got, because he was expected to do alot of tactical and rigid work that he isnt suited for Under Mourinho. The very fact we are relying so heavily on him right now is very worrisome, even if I love the dude to bits already, he is an absolute treat, aslong as he stops shooting...
You pointed out every important thing about Alegri and this Juve in your posts.Ir's worrying but that 's the real facts.
 

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