Massimiliano Allegri (201 Viewers)

[Osman]

I really hope he proves me wrong big time and shows he is up to the task tactically to improve this team for the long run (he surely isnt up to it to mentally inspire the team as they used to be). But seeing him for years in Milan makes me very very skeptical he is able to. Atleast when things are on downward spiral and he isnt have as good of go-to-guy to rely on to (easier to keep things ticking when you do, much different ballpark to adapt and re-invent when it doesnt anymore), thats when his limitations shows, and what am I'm afraid of not being able to bounce back from to our usual top dog level domestically.



My reaction to his appointment (which was initially bit harsh due to the timing), besides being on emotional negative/reactive mood after the wtf roller coaster of how Conte left abruptly and a coach that I wasnt impressed by at all to impose/make a meaningful mark on a team hired suddenly, the MAIN thing I feared for when he was hired was not the immediate first season (last one), even if he did much much better then I expected in CL. But my worry entirely was if a scenario like now occured, how we could look couple years or more from then, when we would be in a rebuilding phase or changing up key parts of the team. Defenitely didnt strike me as a coach that can do that ideally based on latter part of horrid Milan stint, or even when he was winning with Milan, his tactic was all too heavily based on top quality attacker instead of consistent and well built foundation.

Basically my fear is whats occuring right now, if he could handle it and make them click or inspire them when they you start to struggle. Doesnt seem equipped for that type of rebuilding task. Here's one of my first posts in this thread for last years summer. For context sake, post is replying to super sugarcoating/revinionistic posts by people who used to say Allegri is totally shit, now being all way too positive and trying to ignore the kind of limitations he showed with Milan (suddenly everything was only the Milan managements fault and nothing of it possibly his responsibility):

http://www.juventuz.com/threads/40977-Massimiliano-Allegri?p=4627911&viewfull=1#post4627911

Our team knows how to win by having champions like Conte leading us.

And no not over night ofcourse (unless coach is way worse then imagineable), but after a season or two, it completely unrivals the club and the direction we are taking, just one poor appointment can turn things to shit, thats what I meant, and when I say shit I mean the seasons before Conte arrived (even if we are in alot stronger position/firmer foundation now). You know how we been last 3 years, the drive and motivation for succes, and how we were before that.

It doesnt take alot for something like that to happen, just poor decisions after another and failing to renew an ageing squad/holding on to your top quality players (who lets face is we would been hard enough to convince for the long term even without this cluster fuck), it can change so quickly, I seen it happen so often with other top clubs, from closest rivals Inter and Milan, to even the mighty Barca, poor management choices that gets ignored after big successes. We are standing on the ledge here, I hope you realize that, the next two years would been very precarious times even we had Conte still, but without? I'm afraid we may go back to doing this on whim/to stay affloat, which leads to more risk to falter. We can and hopefully will do the best out of this SHIT sitaution, but this is clearly a big drawback, all I'm asking of you is to not pretend otherwise?

Seriously hope his 2nd (or if there is a 3rd) year will dissaprove all the above fears wrong.

 

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[Red]

I really hope he proves me wrong big time.

He won't.

Things will just naturally get better as Juve's forwards develop more of an understanding and when Pogba starts playing so that Juve have another player capable of winning a game by himself.

 

[Osman]

Yeah, as I said, I'm very very skeptical.


Also by the time things get going, it might be too late, depending on what your goal is for the team ofcourse. Not sure Allegri will alow the attack to gel with his highly questionable decision making, bit stubbornly obtuse choices that undoes the little progress thats had with the basics. Pogba will need to get an understanding with Khedira and Marchisio, but most of all, he is clearly a young man in dire need of direction and being told how to best use his abilities. Completely lost and not all too adaptively smart player, more of a decisive type of luxury player, who you need to unlock the potential for by using him in proper system in your set approach. Annoying thing is tho we dont seem to have a set approach, besides the crazy Colombian to the right that winging it (no pun intended) ofcourse. I wonder how much Alex Sandro's offensive movement could unlock Pogba to get more space and time to make things happen more often. All too easy to close down right now.

 

[Red]

I see Pogba's issues of just being due to his own poor form (possibly due to not starting the season in great shape) and that causing a loss of confidence. Not seeing tactical issues causing or fixing Pogba's poor form, though some balance on the left from Alex Sandro is unlikely to hurt.

The system will now start to settle down since Juve have found something that appears to function pretty well. That was always going to take a while to happen due to how late in the window important signings were made and due to key injuries.

Ultimately, we are seeing Pogba's real failing at the moment - he has not developed his game in a way to do the basics right so that he can still make a significant contribution to the team even if the difficult stuff that he specialises in doing isn't working.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on Allegri because he is working with a bunch of attackers (Morata, Dybala, Cuadrado) that I think are best when allowed a lot of freedom, so I would only look for limited guidance and instruction on how to move in a particular game. So long as two of those three are on the pitch, understandings ought to develop and things will start to appear more cohesive.

Something that I think has been overlooked this season (just as it tended to be overlooked when Juve were struggling in Europe under Conte) is that in virtually every game, Juve are creating more clear chances than the opposition. They may not be creating as many clear chances as they could/should be, but so long as you are creating the most chances, the odds are in your favour that in the end things will go your way - unless you have a team of really bad finishers and someone else is extremely clinical.

If a team is consistently creating more chances than the opposition, I find it hard to argue that the coach isn't doing his job.

 

[rakib567]

@allegri

ancelotti real madrid 433/442 formations should be implemented.

Attack

Lopez
Carvajal Ramos Pepe Marcelo
Modric Alonso Dimaria
Bale Benzema Ronaldo

Defence

Lopez
Carvajal Ramos Pepe Marcelo
Bale Modric Alonso Dimaria
Benzema Ronaldo​

we can do the same:

Attack

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Bonucci Chiellini Evra
Khedira Marchisio Pogba
Cuadrado Dybala Morata


Defence

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Bonucci Chiellini Evra
Cuadrado Khedira Marchisio Pogba
Dybala Morata​

@zizinho

that's exactly what happened with inter. pogba shifted to LW and cuadrado dropped to RW making a 442 in defensive position. zaza and morata were on top

 

[Salvo]

I see Pogba's issues of just being due to his own poor form (possibly due to not starting the season in great shape) and that causing a loss of confidence. Not seeing tactical issues causing or fixing Pogba's poor form, though some balance on the left from Alex Sandro is unlikely to hurt.

The system will now start to settle down since Juve have found something that appears to function pretty well. That was always going to take a while to happen due to how late in the window important signings were made and due to key injuries.

Ultimately, we are seeing Pogba's real failing at the moment - he has not developed his game in a way to do the basics right so that he can still make a significant contribution to the team even if the difficult stuff that he specialises in doing isn't working.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on Allegri because he is working with a bunch of attackers (Morata, Dybala, Cuadrado) that I think are best when allowed a lot of freedom, so I would only look for limited guidance and instruction on how to move in a particular game. So long as two of those three are on the pitch, understandings ought to develop and things will start to appear more cohesive.

Something that I think has been overlooked this season (just as it tended to be overlooked when Juve were struggling in Europe under Conte) is that in virtually every game, Juve are creating more clear chances than the opposition. They may not be creating as many clear chances as they could/should be, but so long as you are creating the most chances, the odds are in your favour that in the end things will go your way - unless you have a team of really bad finishers and someone else is extremely clinical.

If a team is consistently creating more chances than the opposition, I find it hard to argue that the coach isn't doing his job.

 

[icemaη]

I see Pogba's issues of just being due to his own poor form (possibly due to not starting the season in great shape) and that causing a loss of confidence. Not seeing tactical issues causing or fixing Pogba's poor form, though some balance on the left from Alex Sandro is unlikely to hurt.

The system will now start to settle down since Juve have found something that appears to function pretty well. That was always going to take a while to happen due to how late in the window important signings were made and due to key injuries.

Ultimately, we are seeing Pogba's real failing at the moment - he has not developed his game in a way to do the basics right so that he can still make a significant contribution to the team even if the difficult stuff that he specialises in doing isn't working.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on Allegri because he is working with a bunch of attackers (Morata, Dybala, Cuadrado) that I think are best when allowed a lot of freedom, so I would only look for limited guidance and instruction on how to move in a particular game. So long as two of those three are on the pitch, understandings ought to develop and things will start to appear more cohesive.

Something that I think has been overlooked this season (just as it tended to be overlooked when Juve were struggling in Europe under Conte) is that in virtually every game, Juve are creating more clear chances than the opposition. They may not be creating as many clear chances as they could/should be, but so long as you are creating the most chances, the odds are in your favour that in the end things will go your way - unless you have a team of really bad finishers and someone else is extremely clinical.

If a team is consistently creating more chances than the opposition, I find it hard to argue that the coach isn't doing his job.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

I see Pogba's issues of just being due to his own poor form (possibly due to not starting the season in great shape) and that causing a loss of confidence. Not seeing tactical issues causing or fixing Pogba's poor form, though some balance on the left from Alex Sandro is unlikely to hurt.

The system will now start to settle down since Juve have found something that appears to function pretty well. That was always going to take a while to happen due to how late in the window important signings were made and due to key injuries.

Ultimately, we are seeing Pogba's real failing at the moment - he has not developed his game in a way to do the basics right so that he can still make a significant contribution to the team even if the difficult stuff that he specialises in doing isn't working.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on Allegri because he is working with a bunch of attackers (Morata, Dybala, Cuadrado) that I think are best when allowed a lot of freedom, so I would only look for limited guidance and instruction on how to move in a particular game. So long as two of those three are on the pitch, understandings ought to develop and things will start to appear more cohesive.

Something that I think has been overlooked this season (just as it tended to be overlooked when Juve were struggling in Europe under Conte) is that in virtually every game, Juve are creating more clear chances than the opposition. They may not be creating as many clear chances as they could/should be, but so long as you are creating the most chances, the odds are in your favour that in the end things will go your way - unless you have a team of really bad finishers and someone else is extremely clinical.

If a team is consistently creating more chances than the opposition, I find it hard to argue that the coach isn't doing his job.

I find myself in full agreement with you, Andrew.

 

[Vlad]

I see Pogba's issues of just being due to his own poor form (possibly due to not starting the season in great shape) and that causing a loss of confidence. Not seeing tactical issues causing or fixing Pogba's poor form, though some balance on the left from Alex Sandro is unlikely to hurt.

The system will now start to settle down since Juve have found something that appears to function pretty well. That was always going to take a while to happen due to how late in the window important signings were made and due to key injuries.

Ultimately, we are seeing Pogba's real failing at the moment - he has not developed his game in a way to do the basics right so that he can still make a significant contribution to the team even if the difficult stuff that he specialises in doing isn't working.

I'm not inclined to place too much blame on Allegri because he is working with a bunch of attackers (Morata, Dybala, Cuadrado) that I think are best when allowed a lot of freedom, so I would only look for limited guidance and instruction on how to move in a particular game. So long as two of those three are on the pitch, understandings ought to develop and things will start to appear more cohesive.

Something that I think has been overlooked this season (just as it tended to be overlooked when Juve were struggling in Europe under Conte) is that in virtually every game, Juve are creating more clear chances than the opposition. They may not be creating as many clear chances as they could/should be, but so long as you are creating the most chances, the odds are in your favour that in the end things will go your way - unless you have a team of really bad finishers and someone else is extremely clinical.

If a team is consistently creating more chances than the opposition, I find it hard to argue that the coach isn't doing his job.

 

[Azzurri7]

Yeah, as I said, I'm very very skeptical.


Also by the time things get going, it might be too late, depending on what your goal is for the team ofcourse. Not sure Allegri will alow the attack to gel with his highly questionable decision making, bit stubbornly obtuse choices that undoes the little progress thats had with the basics. Pogba will need to get an understanding with Khedira and Marchisio, but most of all, he is clearly a young man in dire need of direction and being told how to best use his abilities. Completely lost and not all too adaptively smart player, more of a decisive type of luxury player, who you need to unlock the potential for by using him in proper system in your set approach. Annoying thing is tho we dont seem to have a set approach, besides the crazy Colombian to the right that winging it (no pun intended) ofcourse. I wonder how much Alex Sandro's offensive movement could unlock Pogba to get more space and time to make things happen more often. All too easy to close down right now.

I don't know if I understood your post right but Pogba's issue is not a tactical Allegri's fault if that's what you are highlighting in your post, Pogba's problem is with his mind and forcing himself to impress his price-tag that was set in the summer.

Allegri said it couple of times, Pogba has to be smart, be more clinical, know when to pass the ball and the show will then follow automatically. But right now he's forcing his instinct.

 

[Osman]

Not tactical guidance much (pretty much agree with what Red said except the bit about creating enough chances) , except prolly needs to play with a more offensive fullback to get more space. But in general that he is on such a rut that he stubbornly can't get out of himself right now that he could use more motivating figure in some way. Doesn't seem to get better whatsoever on his own and we are in 2nd month of the season. We need to rely on him again since we lack decisive players like he can be.

 

[zizinho]

@zizinho

that's exactly what happened with inter. pogba shifted to LW and cuadrado dropped to RW making a 442 in defensive position. zaza and morata were on top

thats what i quoted Allegri for

 

[rakib567]

thats what i quoted Allegri for

thanks

 

[Red]

Not tactical guidance much (pretty much agree with what Red said except the bit about creating enough chances) , expect prolly needs to play with a more offensive fullback to get more space. But in general that he is on such a rut that he stubbornly can't get out of himself right now that he could use more motivating figure in some way. Doesn't seem to get better whatsoever on his own and we are in 2nd month of the season. We need to rely on him again since we lack decisive players like he can be.

I'll be interested to see if Pogba gets dropped/rested in the next wee while.

Injuries have prevented giving him a break, but either Hernanes or Pereyra should be able to take Pogba's spot now that there is the solidity of Marchisio and Khedira in the other spots.

 

[Hydde]

But why allegri cant guide him?. He is an experienced coach...he should know how to give orders to pogba for him to deliver.

I dont want to be the half galss empty man... but is also particularly worrysome that we are having great possesion and chances...and we are being wasteful as hell. Tis will continue biting us in the azz if we dont stop that trend.

And cuadrado, being our main attacking man right now... needs for sure improve his end product. He is world class with the ball at his feet in the 3/4 of the field... but when he gets into decisive zones, he cant finish his plays. His shooting is pretty average

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be interested to see if Pogba gets dropped/rested in the next wee while.

Injuries have prevented giving him a break, but either Hernanes or Pereyra should be able to take Pogba's spot now that there is the solidity of Marchisio and Khedira in the other spots.

he definitely needs some time on the bench

 

[Osman]

I'll be interested to see if Pogba gets dropped/rested in the next wee while.

Injuries have prevented giving him a break, but either Hernanes or Pereyra should be able to take Pogba's spot now that there is the solidity of Marchisio and Khedira in the other spots.

I dont think he will, nor should he, he needs to work this through and given some patience to start clicking to his usual norm. And besides injuries, IMO even if we had everyone available I find it hard to imagine that Allegri would start benching the go to guy star of the team when we are having an awful start to the season. Even if said star is part of the problem with his performances. You need to get him going or things will continue to be bit haywire with lesser potential for decisive plays he can bring even in current form (ala pass to Mandzukic vs City, or occasional bursts of initiative or momentum with his unique skillset). Pereyra for all his good efforts has too little end product. While Hernanes is just underwhelming in every way, even if he's more suitable to replace Pogba's offensive approach then if the others did who are all bit too predictable/defensive minded.

 

[Zacheryah]

Quality posts, i'll just keep on reading

 

[Siamak]

I dont think he will, nor should he, he needs to work this through and given some patience to start clicking to his usual norm. And besides injuries, IMO even if we had everyone available I find it hard to imagine that Allegri would start benching the go to guy star of the team when we are having an awful start to the season. Even if said star is part of the problem with his performances. You need to get him going or things will continue to be bit haywire with lesser potential for decisive plays he can bring even in current form (ala pass to Mandzukic vs City, or occasional bursts of initiative or momentum with his unique skillset). Pereyra for all his good efforts has too little end product. While Hernanes is just underwhelming in every way, even if he's more suitable to replace Pogba's offensive approach then if the others did who are all bit too predictable/defensive minded.

really really enjoyed and learnt a lot
thx for your great post

 

[Wings]

I'm more bowels half full. Not sure if that's optimistic or pessimistic.

Depends on what you ate.

 

[BIG DADDY!!!]

I can tell you Andrea Barzagli, Giorgio Chiellini and Leonardo Bonucci will play. So that way you can start saying we’ll play with three, four or five at the back,”

“I’ll be generous and give you a fourth: Buffon.”

This is a period in which he has to find himself and start doing the simple things again, the ones he knows how to do so well. I tell him this all the time.

Paulo Dybala is a player with extraordinary quality, but he needs to be left alone to grow in peace, just as Morata was last year. We can’t ask for too much from Dybala, as he’s only 22 and needs time to settle.”

“Alvaro Morata has improved a lot since last season. Simone Zaza is in good shape and proved it on Sunday against Inter.

It seems he's just repeating the same phrases in his press conferences every week.