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Kiev crisis / Euromaidan (40 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zé Tahir
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Rus, i disagree with you on this because russia needs to feel uncomfortable with Nato expanision on its borders. there is a political philosophy that is called "offensive realism" which stats that there is always a power balance that judges the relationship between two or more states ( take how nato expanded to add states that where closer to russia like poland for instance, and now ukraine they form an ally base to weaken russia's reach into europe a thought that is no longer feasible after the collapse of the soviet union. it also states that the power balance between countries is settled with the power of their land forces amongst other factors. yes i understand that russia should feel secure with the fact they have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons however that is not the main source of security for a nation specially one like russia which can only be threatened by land. Nato considers russia to be a threat which is very untrue and they need not fear russia because russia after the collapse of the soviet union is no longer the super power it used to be infact it has been weakened add to that the latent power russia posses is not very promising considering the demographic prospects that lay ahead of russia. all these factors add to the fear russia has with any threat to its security specially by nato which is pushing to have bases and reach with in ukraine a country that has strategic value for russia. so all being said Putin whether we agree with him or not on domestic issues on this one i personally feel he should feel threatened by this. this being said i firmly believe that in this Ukraine saga the biggest losers are the Ukrainians them selves and thats down to nato and russia fighting there power struggle conflict there.
i highly recommend you read a book called "the tragedy of great power politics" by John J. Mearsheimer
one last things, there is a lot of propaganda from both sides, in russia for instance if you watch россия 1 или россия24 таже rt today you will get the propaganda message that the ukrainian issue has to do with the Russian heritage or the russian ethnic groups there in reality its a power struggle being resolved not more not less and i agree with you with regards that no one cares about that its just a reason given to mask the main issue. off course no citizen will choose to be sent to the front if he or she knows this is a power struggle being resolved but if you put a humanitarian reason on top of it and the propaganda machine hammers this idea you will find people start moving willingly. this is not the first time in history a power struggle takes place in europe, this goes back to Napoleonic france, prussia, germany ww1 germany ww2, crimea ( british french conquest against russia) the cold war etc etc.
i highly recommend you read a book called "the tragedy of great power politics" by John J. Mearsheimer
one last things, there is a lot of propaganda from both sides, in russia for instance if you watch россия 1 или россия24 таже rt today you will get the propaganda message that the ukrainian issue has to do with the Russian heritage or the russian ethnic groups there in reality its a power struggle being resolved not more not less and i agree with you with regards that no one cares about that its just a reason given to mask the main issue. off course no citizen will choose to be sent to the front if he or she knows this is a power struggle being resolved but if you put a humanitarian reason on top of it and the propaganda machine hammers this idea you will find people start moving willingly. this is not the first time in history a power struggle takes place in europe, this goes back to Napoleonic france, prussia, germany ww1 germany ww2, crimea ( british french conquest against russia) the cold war etc etc.
NATO can place their missile defence system all across the eastern europe - Baltic countries, Poland, and even in Turkey, and this system has enough range to intercept our missiles, so what the point to be scared of their bases in Ukraine or in Georgia? obviously russian answer on this will be to move our best rocket launchers on our borders, who needed? Poland?!Baltic countries?!Turkey?! Obviously USA does want it, but none of them, neither Ukraine or Georgia, they dont want to feel pressure on borders because of our militaries
also this
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/photos_112331.htm
They dont need new bases in Ukraine and Georgia at all, Putin is just crazy son of a bitch
And im not doubting propaganda from both sides, in Russia propaganda is just on another level, even Gebbels could only dream about this level of propaganda, 99% of tv channels are after Putin, it's disaster but since his friend Kovalchuk owning everything things will be the same here, i could recommend to read about NTV tv channel and how they took it away from Grigory Gusinskiy back in the middle of 00s, same story with 6-tv, ORT/1Kanal and he gave all control of it to his close friend Kovalchuk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozero
all members of this coop are billionaires, like Putin's friends from KGB and people from administration of mayor of St. Petersburg where Putin was driver and bags porter of mayor Sobchak
Who would have thought back then.....
This shit wouldn't happen unless there was an underlying fear within the Russian Federal Government of things to come. What that is exactly I am not sure; maybe the prevailing economic conditions, a necessity to cement the vertical power structure through radical foreign policy action or a dangerous mutually-affecting mixture of both.
But what I'm sure is that despite all the rhetoric, the Russian Fed Government can't afford to get stuck in against NATO at this point and they know it. The Second Cold War didn't even start yet and when it actually does, it is simply game over.
But what I'm sure is that despite all the rhetoric, the Russian Fed Government can't afford to get stuck in against NATO at this point and they know it. The Second Cold War didn't even start yet and when it actually does, it is simply game over.
Today russia is not run by oligarch but by Putin. Russians support Putin, because he is exactly what they are used to a Tsar. It's strange but it's the way it is. They are used that the government takes care of them they are not used to living in free market. And given the chance to tighten their belts for a cause that they think is right (and russians media is doing everything to think them like that, successfully i may add) they will tighten their belts for a long time.
IMO opinion everything that is happening now is because of personal reasons for Putin, it's not some geopolitical shift, I think it's his ambitions that is the main drive. He has to know that his army isn't fully modernized and his country isn't in the best shape for such prolonged conflicts, but I think he knows that if he doesn't start something now he will be too old later.
Like I said in the start of the Ukraine events this won't stop until half of the Ukraine will be in russias hands and there is nothing that nato or anyone else can do to change that apart from all out war, which definitely won't be happening now.
IMO opinion everything that is happening now is because of personal reasons for Putin, it's not some geopolitical shift, I think it's his ambitions that is the main drive. He has to know that his army isn't fully modernized and his country isn't in the best shape for such prolonged conflicts, but I think he knows that if he doesn't start something now he will be too old later.
Like I said in the start of the Ukraine events this won't stop until half of the Ukraine will be in russias hands and there is nothing that nato or anyone else can do to change that apart from all out war, which definitely won't be happening now.
полная хуйня я живу в свободной стране
Путин Лидер моей страны а не ее ЦАРЬ
ты наверно даже в РОССИИ не был сидишь клавиши тыкаешь
прибалты странные люди
Путин Лидер моей страны а не ее ЦАРЬ
ты наверно даже в РОССИИ не был сидишь клавиши тыкаешь
прибалты странные люди
And how do you know if I haven't been in russia? Plus I have so many people who have been there, lived there and go there on regular basis or come here after living there all their lives or tourists that come here in n numbers every year, not to mention how many business people I know who work with them, even I have occasional dealings with them. And not to mention that I was born here when it was russia, and that my parents and grandparents and their friends lived under them all their lives. And if you add all the history that one can read up about russia I can honestly say that I know a thing or two about russia.
So yeah, keep believing that what you wrote there.
And you think writing in russian will make your point more valid? You know how to write in english, this is english forum, why write in russian?
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Oh and I very much hope that this shit will not escalate, because I have a plan to go with a bike through BAM and road of bones in a couple of years.
So yeah, keep believing that what you wrote there.
And you think writing in russian will make your point more valid? You know how to write in english, this is english forum, why write in russian?
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Oh and I very much hope that this shit will not escalate, because I have a plan to go with a bike through BAM and road of bones in a couple of years.
