Israeli-Palestinian conflict (36 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
Let me translate the head of a crippled innefective institution.
"well Hamas did kill 1400 inocent civilians, but Israel has been "occupying" Gaza for 50+ years".
It's no wonder that propaganda gobblers don't see anything wrong with this type of whataboutism .
Then they act surprised when said people in the institution don't receive visas in the country they offended .
I'm still waiting for this Guteres guy to actually call upon the Gaza residentes to rat out the terrorists so the prisoners can be saved and the Israelis can stop bombing Gaza.
He also says this:
"Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”
It's not as if Israel never offered deals that the Palestinian leaders never accepted.
To put into context is like the UN leader says after some Afgani terrorists kill 1400 Americans innocent civilians " Yeah ,but the US have been occupying Afghanistan in the last 20 years" and end it there.
And lol at @Seven for believing the UN is something more than a laughable institution .
Like they actually have power or something .
I mean you do realize that actual dictatorships like Russia and China have veto powers.
If the UN was a healthy institution there wouldn't be any need for NATO to exist.
FFS Russia even vetoed in the UN security Council for the institution to not intervene in Ukraine .
If that isn't the stuff of comedy I don't know what it is.
"well Hamas did kill 1400 inocent civilians, but Israel has been "occupying" Gaza for 50+ years".
It's no wonder that propaganda gobblers don't see anything wrong with this type of whataboutism .
Then they act surprised when said people in the institution don't receive visas in the country they offended .
I'm still waiting for this Guteres guy to actually call upon the Gaza residentes to rat out the terrorists so the prisoners can be saved and the Israelis can stop bombing Gaza.
He also says this:
"Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”
It's not as if Israel never offered deals that the Palestinian leaders never accepted.
To put into context is like the UN leader says after some Afgani terrorists kill 1400 Americans innocent civilians " Yeah ,but the US have been occupying Afghanistan in the last 20 years" and end it there.
And lol at @Seven for believing the UN is something more than a laughable institution .
Like they actually have power or something .
I mean you do realize that actual dictatorships like Russia and China have veto powers.
If the UN was a healthy institution there wouldn't be any need for NATO to exist.
FFS Russia even vetoed in the UN security Council for the institution to not intervene in Ukraine .
If that isn't the stuff of comedy I don't know what it is.
Israel isn't occupying nothing.
History doesn't start in 1947 as propaganda would have you belive .
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians come from canaanites that inhabited the area .( Post Ironic posted a link to the study a while back)
So both the Palestinians and the Israelis have a claim to the land.
Israel settled the land and kept it by force .
The same thing has happened throught history countless times .
For example how do you think Russia is so big cause if we divide it by ethnicity it probably loses 50% of it's territory.
History doesn't start in 1947 as propaganda would have you belive .
Both the Israelis and the Palestinians come from canaanites that inhabited the area .( Post Ironic posted a link to the study a while back)
So both the Palestinians and the Israelis have a claim to the land.
Israel settled the land and kept it by force .
The same thing has happened throught history countless times .
For example how do you think Russia is so big cause if we divide it by ethnicity it probably loses 50% of it's territory.
Yes, it would be very inconvenient to start in 1947.
You couldn't refer to the Holocaust to justify present day crimes.
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May I also add that Israel suddenly abhors the UN, but it is in fact a member of the UN and has been ever since 1949?
If Israel does not want to adhere to the principles of the UN, it should no longer be a member.
Art. 1 of the UN Charter states:
Art. 2, 4 of the UN Charter states:
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
Again the article speaks about states, not members. But even if you could argue Palestine is not a state, some of the territories that were conquered by Israel were in fact part of recognized states.
Israel has annexed territories. It has blatantly violated this article and it has done so with impunity.
If the UN are not a credible organisation today, it is because they have not come down on Israel hard enough.
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It doesn't matter, if it happened in the past. Israel themselves agreed not to do it in accordance with international law.
I'm sure you are convinced that people just want to justify the Hamas attacks, so I suggest you read this UN report from last year: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default...t/2022-10-19/Report-COI-OPT-14Sept2022-EN.pdf
It concludes:
"The Commission finds that there are reasonable grounds to conclude that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory is now unlawful under international law owing to its permanence and to actions undertaken by Israel to annex parts of the land de facto and de jure. Actions by Israel that are intended to create irreversible facts on the ground and expand its control over territory are reflections as well as drivers of its permanent occupation.
...
Actions by Israel constituting de facto annexation include expropriating land and natural resources, establishing settlements and outposts, maintaining a restrictive and discriminatory planning and building regime for Palestinians and extending Israeli law extraterritorially to Israeli settlers in the West Bank.
...
The Commission emphasizes that the occupation and de facto annexation policies of Israel have had a severe impact on Palestinian lives throughout the West Bank and constitute grave violations and abuses of human rights as well as violations of international humanitarian law. The commitment of Israel to supporting this enterprise has resulted in a series of policies that are intended to sustain and extend the enterprise, which have negatively affected all areas of Palestinian life.".
None of this is new. None of this is unknown to other countries. Most of it is not even denied by Israel.
There is only one way out of this conflict. And it is a unified and strong response against Israel.
You couldn't refer to the Holocaust to justify present day crimes.
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May I also add that Israel suddenly abhors the UN, but it is in fact a member of the UN and has been ever since 1949?
If Israel does not want to adhere to the principles of the UN, it should no longer be a member.
Art. 1 of the UN Charter states:
- To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
- To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
- To achieve international co-operation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural, or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion; and
- To be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in the attainment of these common ends.
Art. 2, 4 of the UN Charter states:
All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
Again the article speaks about states, not members. But even if you could argue Palestine is not a state, some of the territories that were conquered by Israel were in fact part of recognized states.
Israel has annexed territories. It has blatantly violated this article and it has done so with impunity.
If the UN are not a credible organisation today, it is because they have not come down on Israel hard enough.
- - - Updated - - -
It doesn't matter, if it happened in the past. Israel themselves agreed not to do it in accordance with international law.
I'm sure you are convinced that people just want to justify the Hamas attacks, so I suggest you read this UN report from last year: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default...t/2022-10-19/Report-COI-OPT-14Sept2022-EN.pdf
It concludes:
"The Commission finds that there are reasonable grounds to conclude that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory is now unlawful under international law owing to its permanence and to actions undertaken by Israel to annex parts of the land de facto and de jure. Actions by Israel that are intended to create irreversible facts on the ground and expand its control over territory are reflections as well as drivers of its permanent occupation.
...
Actions by Israel constituting de facto annexation include expropriating land and natural resources, establishing settlements and outposts, maintaining a restrictive and discriminatory planning and building regime for Palestinians and extending Israeli law extraterritorially to Israeli settlers in the West Bank.
...
The Commission emphasizes that the occupation and de facto annexation policies of Israel have had a severe impact on Palestinian lives throughout the West Bank and constitute grave violations and abuses of human rights as well as violations of international humanitarian law. The commitment of Israel to supporting this enterprise has resulted in a series of policies that are intended to sustain and extend the enterprise, which have negatively affected all areas of Palestinian life.".
None of this is new. None of this is unknown to other countries. Most of it is not even denied by Israel.
There is only one way out of this conflict. And it is a unified and strong response against Israel.
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@Seven showing the UN charter 
Hey bro . China , Russia the US are members too and they whipe their ass with it as other countries that I ain't going to bother to google.
You acknowledge that it's a "has been" institution and then you proceed to show it's charter.
Please make up your mind.
Here is your upstanding institution in it's full splendor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...ouncil-rejects-debate-on-treatment-of-uighurs
Hey bro . China , Russia the US are members too and they whipe their ass with it as other countries that I ain't going to bother to google.
You acknowledge that it's a "has been" institution and then you proceed to show it's charter.
Please make up your mind.
Here is your upstanding institution in it's full splendor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...ouncil-rejects-debate-on-treatment-of-uighurs
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Maybe Palestinian leaders shouldn’t be complete retards, rejecting both the peace settlements in 90s and 00s that would have given them 90-95% of the West Bank (+ the equivalent of the remaining 5% in Israel), all of Gaza, and a connection between the two. More focussed on carrying out terrorist attacks than actually working towards a political solution. The PLO and now Hamas have done nothing but be detrimental to a political solution and Palestinian nationhood for 60 years.
Israel’s actions should be condemned but the UN and the Arab world should stop mollycoddling terrorists and force them to accept an offer like the above.
Israel’s actions should be condemned but the UN and the Arab world should stop mollycoddling terrorists and force them to accept an offer like the above.
That's thanks to Hugo Boss.
Evil regime, but they surely knew how to dress for the occasion.
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Good looking uniforms there.
Evil regime, but they surely knew how to dress for the occasion.
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Holocaust one was/is the get out of jail free card that always works and will always work.
Let me justify our current wrongdoing by bringing up the unspeakable shit that happened to us decades ago. That'll shut you up.
It's predictable, yet always works.
Let me justify our current wrongdoing by bringing up the unspeakable shit that happened to us decades ago. That'll shut you up.
It's predictable, yet always works.
You are doing what a lot of people are doing. Confusing the behaviour of Palestinian leaders or Palestinian political factions with the violations of international law by a state.
I despise Hamas. I always have. I think they are a detriment to their own people and an obstacle that needs to be overcome to work towards peace. But you don't have to be a political mastermind to see that Israel uses Hamas to illegally occupy territories and perhaps annex even more territories. And also, a terrorist organization born under your very occupation, is not exactly a strong argument to wage war.
Israel need to be held accountable. Then and only then can there be peace.
I despise Hamas. I always have. I think they are a detriment to their own people and an obstacle that needs to be overcome to work towards peace. But you don't have to be a political mastermind to see that Israel uses Hamas to illegally occupy territories and perhaps annex even more territories. And also, a terrorist organization born under your very occupation, is not exactly a strong argument to wage war.
Israel need to be held accountable. Then and only then can there be peace.
Sure lol,
You are the one deflecting. The only case you are building is a case for a terrorist organisation and an Iranian proxy with the explicit aim of a complete genocide.
I never will dispute claims of ethnic cleansing, never have. Never said Israel didn't violate "international law". I just find laughable your double standards, whataboutisim and naive outlook on how the world works.
You are the one deflecting. The only case you are building is a case for a terrorist organisation and an Iranian proxy with the explicit aim of a complete genocide.
I never will dispute claims of ethnic cleansing, never have. Never said Israel didn't violate "international law". I just find laughable your double standards, whataboutisim and naive outlook on how the world works.
@Seven showing the UN charter
Hey bro . China , Russia the US are members too and they whipe their ass with it as other countries that I ain't going to bother to google.
You acknowledge that it's a "has been" institution and then you proceed to show it's charter.
Please make up your mind.
Here is your upstanding institution in it's full splendor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...ouncil-rejects-debate-on-treatment-of-uighurs
Hey bro . China , Russia the US are members too and they whipe their ass with it as other countries that I ain't going to bother to google.
You acknowledge that it's a "has been" institution and then you proceed to show it's charter.
Please make up your mind.
Here is your upstanding institution in it's full splendor.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...ouncil-rejects-debate-on-treatment-of-uighurs
And again, you are not arguing on the merits of the case. Does that not say everything we need to know?
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Then, maybe, you should think about:
- not ethnic cleansing;
- adhering to international law.
We can talk about Hamas later.
Sadly the windows for peace has long since passed. And both parts are now backed up in each of their corners, so some sort of deal looks close to impossible.
What would it even look like these days? Israel should give back some of the settler territory they annexed and Palestinians should acknowledge a Jewish state? Wish it was that "simple". In the ideal world would the Arab nations put pressure on Palestine to accept a deal and the West the same on Israel.
What would it even look like these days? Israel should give back some of the settler territory they annexed and Palestinians should acknowledge a Jewish state? Wish it was that "simple". In the ideal world would the Arab nations put pressure on Palestine to accept a deal and the West the same on Israel.