Critique of Israel is not the same as sympathy for the Hamas or PIJ. To me, it is perfectly comprehensible to criticise both Israel and Hamas, but at the same time hold to the notion that the emergence of Hamas is not something owed to inherent Palestinian values, but rather a combination of several factors. On the Palestinian side you find ineptitude from the PLO during the Oslo Peace Process, acting out of Tunis and not being on the ground severely restricted their possibilities of influencing the Palestinian community in both Gaza and the West Bank. The emergence of radicalized groups, such as Hamas, is always preempted by developments that allow for this. In the case of Gaza it is a congruence of factors, most of them are directly caused to Israel. Settlements, denial of Palestinians as people but a historic insisting of them being mere Arabs with no notion of separate nationalism, denial of the right of return for palestinian refugees from the 1948 and 1967 wars, failure to comply with international law in regards to territory and repatriation of said refugees and an all together policy towards Palestine that can be best summed up in creating a fait accompli from which there is no return. Add to that the economic disparity that comes from not having an national entity capable or allowed to conduct commerce and you have a desperate population with no prospects or future and you have a ripe foundation from which radicalism can grow. Follow this line of thought: I do not sympathise with Hamas simply because they are detrimental to any notion of peace, but I definitely sympathise with the Palestinian population and I can even go so far as to understand why the population of Gaza voted for Hamas. Get it?
And yes, I am seriously denying that there is anti-Israel bias in the UN. The latest example is in 2011 where there was a motion to condemn Israeli settlements in the security council. This was vetoed by the US. There were no provisions entailing economic sanctions or military action against Israel, it was mere condemnation - a foundation from which the uprooting of settlements could be discussed in future peace accords, and it was veteoed by the US.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/feb/19/us-veto-israel-settlement
Furthermore, the resolutions that I am talking about in the general assembly and security council stem from 1949 until 1976 - are you telling me that there was an anti Israel bias in the UN straight after WWII? If so this discussion needs to end right here as I am dealing with someone with absolutely no understanding of Post WWII history and in that case, I am frankly wasting my time here.
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And for every picture of Palestinian extremists doing horrid things you post I can post a matching picture of Israeli cruelties. That should not be the point of this discussion as crimes have been done by both sides - if we are looking for a solution to the issue we have to start with Israel making concessions which will allow for moderate forces within the Palestinian political bodies to sway the population. Israel holds all the bargaining chips and the only thing in the hands of Palestinians is ceasing violence in exchange for statehood - devaluating this subject to emotional pornography by posting pictures of crimes is besides the point as we need to establish a point where both sides agree that previous history shouldn't be repeated and look forward in a common pursuit of peace, again; if this is to work Israel needs to start by making unilateral concessions that will allow for moderate palestinians to gain momentum, because as it is Israeli policy is pushing a whole new generation of Palestinians straight to the ballot boxes to vote for Hamas.
You say criticising both Israel and Hamas, but when exactly did you criticise Hamas? You said Israel occupies Palestine for lebensraum, implying they are Nazis, but where do you condemn all the atrocities committed by Hamas and the PLO over the years. Of the two of us I’m the only one who criticised both sides.
“I do not sympathise with Hamas simply because they are detrimental to any notion of peace” – If this is the harshest thing you have to say about Hamas, you and everyone who praised your post should be ashamed.
When you say “The emergence of radicalized groups, such as Hamas”, keep in mind that PLO and Fatah have committed a number of terrorist attacks in the past, and “the Palestinian Mandela”, Yasser Arafat, was a terrorist and a thief.
If you want to look back to 48 and 67 why don’t we look at the whole story.
1. 6 million Jews were murdered during the Holocaust and it was not only Germany’s fault. "There are in Europe 6,000,000 people ... for whom the world is divided into places where they cannot live and places where they cannot enter.” – Chaim Weizmann before the Peel Commission. There was no place in Europe where the Jews could feel safe.
2. The Jews have just as good a claim to the land that is Israel today as the Palestinians, and much better than all the others who have ruled it in the last 2000 years.
3. At the time Palestine was a British territory and it was agreed by them and the United Nations, which you yourself so often quote, to partition the territory.
4. The Palestinians and all the Arab nations rejected the Partition plan and a Civil War broke out. Britain did not intervene.
5. The moment Britain left Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq attacked Israel. The goal was to destroy Israel, but the Jews pushed them out and conquered some of the territories of the proposed Palestine state.
6. Even after the 1949 Armistice Agreements, none of the aggressors recognized Israel or the international boundaries.
7. No Palestinian state was created, even in Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank by Jordan.
8. About 700k Palestinians became refugees, either fled or were expelled and their homes stolen by Israel. They were settled in refugee camps and most of they were denied citizenship in the Arab countries, except Jordan. Also, their refugee status is inherited by their children.
9. Six Days War - Egypt, Jordan and Syria signed a mutual “defense” agreement against Israel
10. Nasser expelled the UN from Sinai and closed the Straits of Tiran.
11. While they were preparing to attack, Israel launched a preemptive strike and kicked their asses, defeating them once again.
12. Israel conquered Sinai, Gaza, West Bank and the Golan Heights. They returned Sinai to Egypt in 79 and left Gaza in 2005.
13. Jewish minorities were expelled from the Arab countries, the refugees going mainly to Israel.
So when you say how horribly mistreated Palestinians in Israel are, note that they are horribly mistreated in the Arab countries. Human rights are universal and the same moral standard applies regardless of religion or ethnicity or nationality. You say you sympathise with the Palestinian population but you don’t. I do a lot more than you do. If you really did, you would care not just about a Palestinian state, but what rights and life they would have in that state or in any other state. I want the occupation of the West Bank to end and I want a Palestinian country. But I don’t want this country to be ruled by Hamas or some other Islamists who cut off hands or stone people to death for apostasy. I want the minorities, including the jews, in that country to have the same rights as the Palestinians. Just like the Arab citizens of Israel have all the rights that Jews have. I don’t think it’s a lot to ask for as a condition for a Palestine state. But right now, Fatah refuses to even start negotiating. How does that help?
In a conflict, just because both sides are at fault, does not mean they are equally at fault. The truth is not always in the middle. And it is not always the case that the weaker side are good and blameless. If the balance of power between the Jews and the Arabs were reversed, we would've had another Holocaust.
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And for every picture of Palestinian extremists doing horrid things you post I can post a matching picture of Israeli cruelties. That should not be the point of this discussion as crimes have been done by both sides - if we are looking for a solution to the issue we have to start with Israel making concessions which will allow for moderate forces within the Palestinian political bodies to sway the population. Israel holds all the bargaining chips and the only thing in the hands of Palestinians is ceasing violence in exchange for statehood - devaluating this subject to emotional pornography by posting pictures of crimes is besides the point as we need to establish a point where both sides agree that previous history shouldn't be repeated and look forward in a common pursuit of peace, again; if this is to work Israel needs to start by making unilateral concessions that will allow for moderate palestinians to gain momentum, because as it is Israeli policy is pushing a whole new generation of Palestinians straight to the ballot boxes to vote for Hamas.
The purpose of this picture is to demonstrate how utterly disgusting the unwillingness on your part and many other people to strongly condemn Palestinian terrorists and war criminals is.