Israeli-Palestinian conflict (46 Viewers)

[Alen]

Helen Thomas: Jews, go back to Poland

I was in Warsaw from April 9th till April 11th.
With my luck, that plane accident happened, their president and many other died so I couldn't feel the life of the city due to that accident, but it happened that at the same time the Auschwitz commemoration took place and there were a lot of Israeli's in Poland.

I had the luck to have a brilliant tourist guide. One 22 year old girl who specializes in the Polish history during WWII and she took us to the ghetto's and told us everything about it.
Every year young Israeli's come to Poland on excursions and visit those WWII places and camps etc. Until recently, those kids weren't allowed to stay in contact with the Poles. They were told terrible stories about what was happening in Poland, and many of them couldn't take it and even refused to get out of the bus. Many similar stories she told us, etc.
What I want to say, and what she told us, is that the Israeli's want to keep the image of Poland as an image of one huge cemetery. The girl even told us that the Jews are even angry that the Poles are going on with their lives and are ruining the image of Poland being a huge cemetery, a place without life, where the most terrible things in the world happened.

You see, if you think about it, it's not imaginable to take the Jews back to Poland. It's like taking us here (non-Jews) to live in some cemetery. That's how they see Poland and that's why they won't ever come back there. Some other country maybe, but never Poland.

Second, I think we established here few days ago that a small number of the Israeli's come from Poland, and even Germany, so what does this lady think when she says they should go back to Poland?

And third, wasn't there a difference between Zionists and Jews? All of you convinced us here how you don't hate the Jews but you hate the Zionists. This lady says "Jews" and you support her?

Plus, I think she chose Poland with a purpose and what she said was sick.

 

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[Alen]

I want an answer to this question. How is justice achieved for the Europeans who will have to move because of the grand return of the Jews? And how will justice be achieved for the people who will have to move for the Europeans that were forced to leave their homes?

Something more....Around 40% of today's Israeli came to Israel from the Arab countries. From 2 of those countries (Libya and Egypt) they were even expelled and their properties were taken.

So if we do accept those Jews in Europe and give them our houses, then I'm guessing the same should be done to those circa 2 million Israelis of today who came, or have origins, from the Arab countries, or Turkey.

Does this mean that Bisco and Fred, if it's established that Jews lived in their houses in Egypt and Libya before being expelled, should give those houses back to a Jewish family?

Huge numbers of today's Israeli were born (or their parents were born) in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon.
So is there someone here from Lebanon or Syria willing to give his house to those Jews if it's established that Jews lived there before the 1950's?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Something more....Around 40% of today's Israeli came to Israel from the Arab countries. From 2 of those countries (Libya and Egypt) they were even expelled and their properties were taken.

So if we do accept those Jews in Europe and give them our houses, then I'm guessing the same should be done to those circa 2 million Israelis of today who came, or have origins, from the Arab countries, or Turkey.

Does this mean that Bisco and Fred, if it's established that Jews lived in their houses in Egypt and Libya before being expelled, should give those houses back to a Jewish family?

Huge numbers of today's Israeli were born (or their parents were born) in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon.
So is there someone here from Lebanon or Syria willing to give his house to those Jews if it's established that Jews lived there before the 1950's?

yes, and wheres your source on these jewish expulsions?

 

[Bisco]

Something more....Around 40% of today's Israeli came to Israel from the Arab countries. From 2 of those countries (Libya and Egypt) they were even expelled and their properties were taken.

So if we do accept those Jews in Europe and give them our houses, then I'm guessing the same should be done to those circa 2 million Israelis of today who came, or have origins, from the Arab countries, or Turkey.

Does this mean that Bisco and Fred, if it's established that Jews lived in their houses in Egypt and Libya before being expelled, should give those houses back to a Jewish family?

Huge numbers of today's Israeli were born (or their parents were born) in Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon.
So is there someone here from Lebanon or Syria willing to give his house to those Jews if it's established that Jews lived there before the 1950's?

i'm pretty sure some sort of solution can be resolved alen. jews were living peacefully in egypt for a lot of years. some of my grand pa's closet friends at school where jews. i dont think people in egypt have issues with jews, and if that means palestinans will get the chance to get back to there homeland i think the reason for any conflict or hatred will just vanish. once again the bad blood is not based on religion as much as its based on there hatred to isreal.

the jews were'nt kicked out of egypt alen, i'm not in the light when it comes to certain events that involved jews rioting in the early 50's ( bec i know they sold there property and decided to leave to isreal) and thats when things went bad for them in egypt and they decided to leave. i know for fact there are as little as 20 egyptain jewish familes living in egypt today which is a very small number compared to the population that existed in the early part of the last century.

its very complicated though, and to be honest i dont see it happening any time soon at least not in our life time.

 

[Alen]

yes, and wheres your source on these jewish expulsions?

What kind of source will you prefer? (I'm asking this so my source won't be considered Jewish propaganda)

 

[Enron]

Isn't Alen a historian?

 

[Alen]

Isn't Alen a historian?

I am, but that doesn't mean that I know more about the 20th century history of the middle-east than the Arabs here do. Actually, they probably know more about it than I do.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

What kind of source will you prefer? (I'm asking this so my source won't be considered Jewish propaganda)

if you deem it propaganda proof i ll take it

 

[Alen]

if you deem it propaganda proof i ll take it

Ok.
http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries

This one is about Egypt and it also talks about the reasons Jews left other countries. Maybe you won't get a "Gun on the forehead, leave or I kill you" statements or proofs, but it tells a good story.

 

[Alen]

Also this one about Egypt:
http://www.hsje.org/forcedmigration.htm

Of course, I won't stand behind this text. I mentioned it few days ago, Rebel answered my post but didn't make any objection about the expulsion parts, so I thought he accepts it and it indeed happened. That's why I mentioned it again today.

I recognize that it could be completely false info.

 

[Azzurri7]

But but, they never forced people out....

Andries, here is another reason to be proud of the Jewish like you said earlier.

 

[Enron]

Ok.
http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries

This one is about Egypt and it also talks about the reasons Jews left other countries. Maybe you won't get a "Gun on the forehead, leave or I kill you" statements or proofs, but it tells a good story.

This one is peer a reviewed journal, but run by a conservative think tank in America. Owner is a jew, but there are arab (not sure of the religions) members on the board of editors.

Also this one about Egypt:
http://www.hsje.org/forcedmigration.htm

Of course, I won't stand behind this text. I mentioned it few days ago, Rebel answered my post but didn't make any objection about the expulsion parts, so I thought he accepts it and it indeed happened. That's why I mentioned it again today.

I recognize that it could be completely false info.

The author of this one is a "peace culture researcher". She lives in Israel. Seems like a hippy Jewish lady.

Here is her website.

http://www.iflac.com/ada/articles.html

 

[GordoDeCentral]

come on Alen, those 2 links, especially the second one, iare a joke i am not saying there was no backlash against jews during the partition period, for obvious reasons. However there wasnt any state sponsored imprisonment of jews for being jews or massive expulsions.

ill leave you with this:

"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves ---- that is only half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend ourselves. . . . But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict, which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves."

 

[king Ale]

I was in Warsaw from April 9th till April 11th.
With my luck, that plane accident happened, their president and many other died so I couldn't feel the life of the city due to that accident, but it happened that at the same time the Auschwitz commemoration took place and there were a lot of Israeli's in Poland.

I had the luck to have a brilliant tourist guide. One 22 year old girl who specializes in the Polish history during WWII and she took us to the ghetto's and told us everything about it.
Every year young Israeli's come to Poland on excursions and visit those WWII places and camps etc. Until recently, those kids weren't allowed to stay in contact with the Poles. They were told terrible stories about what was happening in Poland, and many of them couldn't take it and even refused to get out of the bus. Many similar stories she told us, etc.
What I want to say, and what she told us, is that the Israeli's want to keep the image of Poland as an image of one huge cemetery. The girl even told us that the Jews are even angry that the Poles are going on with their lives and are ruining the image of Poland being a huge cemetery, a place without life, where the most terrible things in the world happened.

You see, if you think about it, it's not imaginable to take the Jews back to Poland. It's like taking us here (non-Jews) to live in some cemetery. That's how they see Poland and that's why they won't ever come back there. Some other country maybe, but never Poland.

Second, I think we established here few days ago that a small number of the Israeli's come from Poland, and even Germany, so what does this lady think when she says they should go back to Poland?

And third, wasn't there a difference between Zionists and Jews? All of you convinced us here how you don't hate the Jews but you hate the Zionists. This lady says "Jews" and you support her?

Plus, I think she chose Poland with a purpose and what she said was sick.

The disturbing thing is that some people seem to be okay with what they have been disapproved of all the time only if this thing happens to some other people. They actually don't have a problem with "genocides" per se as long as it doesn't happen to a certain group of people. They don't see anything wrong in exiling someone from his home as long as this someone is not one of their kind.

 

[Enron]

ill leave you with this:

"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves ---- that is only half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend ourselves. . . . But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict, which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves."

That last part is true. Israel are a politick machine.

The first part may have been true per the 1970s, but probably no longer.



ALSO:

If anyone is interested. Here's some general (wiki) information on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_lands

 

[Azzurri7]

The disturbing thing is that some people seem to be okay with what they have been disapproved of all the time only if this thing happens to some other people. They actually don't have a problem with "genocides" per se as long as it doesn't happen to a certain group of people. They don't see anything wrong in exiling someone from his home as long as this someone is not one of their kind.

You enjoy twisting words don't you?

It's not like I will go to Israel to commit a genocide but If they bring the war to my home then I wouldn't mind killing all the 5million. In my book, that's called self defense genocide.

If in your book/house it's okay to kill, rape, murder, steal then it's not with us even if 50years passed so far. It's still not.

Till this moment, you and Seven don't know the difference between defending yourself, your home and people, being attacked from attacking civilians and innocent people.

People like you and Seven should probably take the Israeli's from Palestine and then the world would be in heaven if that's okay with you.

 

[Enron]

You enjoy twisting words don't you?

It's not like I will go to Israel to commit a genocide but If they bring the war to my home then I wouldn't mind killing all the 5million. In my book, that's called self defense genocide.

People like you and Seven should probably take the Israeli's from Palestine and then the world would be in heaven if that's okay with you.

Take this word out of your sentence and I'd totally agree with you.

if people invaded my country and they all happened to expire it's not really a genocide. It's purely self defense.

 

[Azzurri7]

Take this word out of your sentence and I'd totally agree with you.

if people invaded my country and they all happened to expire it's not really a genocide. It's purely self defense.

I usually don't use it but I'm just trying to show her how valuable and important it is to defend your home and your people at all cost even if it meant a genocide.

 

[Enron]

I usually don't use it but I'm just trying to show her how valuable and important it is to defend your home and your people at all cost even if it meant a genocide.

I know Rab.

 

[Alen]

come on Alen, those 2 links, especially the second one, iare a joke i am not saying there was no backlash against jews during the partition period, for obvious reasons. However there wasnt any state sponsored imprisonment of jews for being jews or massive expulsions.

Yup, I believe that there weren't massive expulsions. Something like that wouldn't have gone unnoticed. But those states did enough (did a lot, I would say) those Jews to leave those countries. Kind of a silent expulsion.

Israel was everything but a secure place to live in those years. I don't think they'd have left Egypt or Iraq for Israel if they didn't feel much safer even in the insecure Israel.

It can not be compared to what was happening to the Palestinians in Israel. Only a sick man can make such comparison, but the topic was about "Jews going to Europe" and I don't think it's right to dismiss those Jews who didn't come from Europe and to take their right of their properties in Egypt, just because they left "without being forced to do so".
No need to tell you that I see the whole "Jews back to Europe" argument stupid, but if we play that game, then what I said in those two replies and what I say now applies.
So if Seven needs to give his house to a Jewish family, Bisco needs to do it too.