Israeli-Palestinian conflict (80 Viewers)

[Fred]

either all the things written there are the word of god or none of them are. HOW COULD GOD HAVE BEEN WRONG?

Maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. all the things written there are the word of god, anything that is written in the Koran is mandatory on muslims.

But there are some things that the Koran did not mention, those are up for interpretation using Qiyas(analogy) or Ijma' (consensus).

 

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[CheSchifo!]

Other problems for the sharia:

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.


Oops.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

how easy is it for the rulers to say that they got power through ijma

 

[Fred]

Yeah right.

So what does the sharia say about marriage or eating certain types of food? Or what about homosexuality?

if you are a non muslim living in a muslim country you are allowed to eat pork, drink wine, as long as you don't do it in front of people, do whatever you want in your home.

 

[CheSchifo!]

if you are a non muslim living in a muslim country you are allowed to eat pork, drink wine, as long as you don't do it in front of people, do whatever you want in your home.

I should be able to do it in broad daylight.

And why should a muslim not be able to do it? The very fact that different rules would apply to muslims and non muslims is discrimination.

Which violates the human rights .

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Another thing, there is a quotation all around that says that our prophet Muhammad stated that "Allah has cursed anyone who does what Lut's people did." And he said: "If you find any persons engaged in homosexuality, kill both the active and the passive partner." Ibn Abbas said: "Find the tallest building in the town and throw the homosexual down from its roof, then stone him to death".

 

[CheSchifo!]

The sharia doesn't even come close to being acceptable.

I want to know exactly how easy it would be for a muslim to tell the state he wants to stop being a muslim in a state that applies the sharia.

 

[Fred]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong here. You know the Koran better than me.
But could you please tell me where in the Koran it is said that the ruler has to be elected by the shura?

قال تعالى في وصف المؤمنين:

وأمرهم شورى بينهم

wait till i find you a good translation.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

I should be able to do it in broad daylight.

And why should a muslim not be able to do it? The very fact that different rules would apply to muslims and non muslims is discrimination.

Which violates the human rights .

and all muslim women are allowed to take off their hijab in the privacy of their own homes

 

[Martin]

The sharia doesn't even come close to being acceptable.

I want to know exactly how easy it would be for a muslim to tell the state he wants to stop being a muslim in a state that applies the sharia.

I think this sums it up nicely.

 

[Fred]

Other problems for the sharia:

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.


Oops.

???

I should be able to do it in broad daylight.

And why should a muslim not be able to do it? The very fact that different rules would apply to muslims and non muslims is discrimination.

Which violates the human rights .

No, you shouldn't.

The sharia doesn't even come close to being acceptable.

I want to know exactly how easy it would be for a muslim to tell the state he wants to stop being a muslim in a state that applies the sharia.

I know what your referring to, and i am not an expert in Islam, but my understanding of the Koran is it says that the person has the right to believe what he wants, but he will be accountable for it in the afterlife.

Only radicals believe that the Murtad(people converting from islam ) should be killed. The koran doesn't state that Murtad should be killed for your information.

 

[Martin]

No, you shouldn't.

Why not? I'm not hurting anyone.

 

[Fred]

and all muslim women are allowed to take off their hijab in the privacy of their own homes

thats not true, the koran states its obligatory for muslim women to wear the hijab, but its their choice in the end, and they should not be forced by the state, they will however be held accountable in the afterlife.

 

[Fred]

Why not? I'm not hurting anyone.

Its not acceptable socially in an Islamic society for you to be walking around drunk.

 

[Martin]

thats not true, the koran states its obligatory for muslim women to wear the hijab, but its their choice in the end, and they should not be forced by the state, they will however be held accountable in the afterlife.

Now I'm confused. Koran says it's obligatory. Ergo an "Islamic state", ie. one the follows Islamic rules, must make this obligatory as well, right? Because otherwise how can they be Islamic when they don't obey the Koran?

 

[CheSchifo!]

???

No, you shouldn't.



I know what your referring to, and i am not an expert in Islam, but my understanding of the Koran is it says that the person has the right to believe what he wants, but he will be accountable for it in the afterlife.

Only radicals believe that the Murtad(people converting from islam ) should be killed. The koran doesn't state that Murtad should be killed for your information.

That was from the human rights declaration as well. Other articles that would be violated.

It's a fantasy to believe that it would be easy, Fred. And the human rights declaration does not state that I should do things in the privacy of my own home. I can drink a fucking beer in public if I want to.

 

[Fred]

Now I'm confused. Koran says it's obligatory. Ergo an "Islamic state", ie. one the follows Islamic rules, must make this obligatory as well, right? Because otherwise how can they be Islamic when they don't obey the Koran?

It is obligatory to wear Hijab, like it is obligatory to pray 5 times a day. Nobody should force you however, as in the end you will be held accountable in the afterlife.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Its not acceptable socially in an Islamic society for you to be walking around drunk.

Neither is it in the USA or Belgium for that matter. It even could get you arrested.

But that's far from not being able to eat pork in public. Fuck that.

 

[Alen]

Why not? I'm not hurting anyone.

It's similar to a Chinese guy eating a dog in Europe.

 

[CheSchifo!]

It is obligatory to wear Hijab, like it is obligatory to pray 5 times a day. Nobody should force you however, as in the end you will be held accountable in the afterlife.

Then why can't I eat pork in public?