Israeli-Palestinian conflict (3 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,128
It's great that you know the names of a few fallacies so you can throw them here and there and feel smart.
:lol:

While true I figured it can be perceived as a cop-out so I edited my post. good catch though, it was an astonishing number btw

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You being saddedned and upset and bla bla bla - I never bought that and will never either.
I think that is the root cause of why you fail to understand any of my arguments. Not only that, but it explain why you attribute to me so many things I have never said or even said the complete opposite of.

you just refuse to suspend belief that anything I say isn't some agenda driven lie I was fed or trying to sell, how is it possible to have a discussion like that? it really sadness me :D

We aren't playing mafia you know..
 

Linebreak

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
15,876
How is that understandable? If anything, those who were wronged should be the last ones who would commit a similar wrong to a people who were not those who wronged them in the first place (hence there's no possibility of revenge). How is what he said in any way understandable?
Spot on.

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The fact of the matter is, if anyone wants any semblance of truth about this entire topic, just listen to the likes of former Zionists such as Miko Peled, or the son of Holocaust survivors Norman Finkelstein.

Unbelievable that Australia was the only other country than the US to vote against the UN Council to simply "investigate" the killings. If Israel is so holy and pure, it would gladly accept such an investigation to show how innocent and misunderstood they are and how crazy and violent the Palestinians are, but they'd rather hide behind excuses of "oh this is so unfair don't investigate us, some of our ancestors died in the holocaust!"

People don't realise how much power Zionists have worldwide, from media, to banks, to commerce, and they basically control US Policy.
 

Linebreak

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
15,876
We'll see what happens if Mexicans start flinging Qassams into Texas :baus:
Or if Mexico decides that Southern US land was historically theirs since their ancestors lived their centuries ago and God promised it to them, and since no one could protect their indigenous peoples from European genocide, they'll have to wipe out Southern US cities and take them back violently.
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
24,020
Or if Mexico decides that Southern US land was historically theirs since their ancestors lived their centuries ago and God promised it to them, and since no one could protect their indigenous peoples from European genocide, they'll have to wipe out Southern US cities and take them back violently.
Literally nothing in Israel's foundation was outside International Law, no matter how much pallywood apologists harp on about 'religious' motives of Zionists

sad!

btw, regarding Orgut's post: Total war is not genocide, my grandfather used to say :shifty:
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,128
People don't realise how much power Zionists have worldwide, from media, to banks, to commerce, and they basically control US Policy.
:agree:

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Literally nothing in Israel's foundation was outside International Law, no matter how much pallywood apologists harp on about 'religious' motives of Zionists
This became debatable apparently, you must have missed the memo
 

The Quazis

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2012
3,541
Spot on.

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The fact of the matter is, if anyone wants any semblance of truth about this entire topic, just listen to the likes of former Zionists such as Miko Peled, or the son of Holocaust survivors Norman Finkelstein.

Unbelievable that Australia was the only other country than the US to vote against the UN Council to simply "investigate" the killings. If Israel is so holy and pure, it would gladly accept such an investigation to show how innocent and misunderstood they are and how crazy and violent the Palestinians are, but they'd rather hide behind excuses of "oh this is so unfair don't investigate us, some of our ancestors died in the holocaust!"

People don't realise how much power Zionists have worldwide, from media, to banks, to commerce, and they basically control US Policy.
Agree.

Wysłane z mojego FRD-L09 przy użyciu Tapatalka
 

Linebreak

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2009
15,876
]Literally nothing in Israel's foundation was outside International Law[/B], no matter how much pallywood apologists harp on about 'religious' motives of Zionists

sad!

btw, regarding Orgut's post: Total war is not genocide, my grandfather used to say :shifty:
The Palestinians were never consulted or considered in this - it was forced upon them.

The powerful use the law to their advantage - most of the time they are the ones who made the law.

And if we're going to play the International Law game, as though Israel has any regard for it (unless it suits them like your post), Israel's occupation outside the original borders and their moving of settlers into those areas, breaks multiple International laws and has been condemned by the UN Council multiple times, and all the while pisses all over International Law behind "anti-Israel", "Anti-Semite'' "But the Holocaust".
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,711
Yep

The only true thing you said.

And basically all your questions are just asking me to rephrase what you couldn't get about the answer I just gave. again not very fruitful is it?
I've read your posts with great interest. Parts of them I agreed with. Others I vehemently disagreed with.

But after having read them all, there is something I want to ask you. Do you believe the life of a Palestinian civilian id worth as much as the life of an Israeli citizen? Do you think they have the same rights and obligations?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,128
I've read your posts with great interest. Parts of them I agreed with. Others I vehemently disagreed with.

But after having read them all, there is something I want to ask you. Do you believe the life of a Palestinian civilian id worth as much as the life of an Israeli citizen? Do you think they have the same rights and obligations?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk
I appreciate that, reading them and at least making the effort whether we agree or not.

For the first part, is the life of a palestinian worth as much as the life of an Israeli? in absolute terms, definite yes.

Too often my own country is forcing itself into a corner of making those choices on life worth when it's not absolutely necessary, those are the issues I criticise Israel about.

How would you choose between the life of a family member and a random person for the sake of argument? you know they are worth the same but are they really equal to you personally? even if it's a clear choice there is a price to pay, and we do pay it as a society (not comparing sufferings before anyone is triggered).I know it may sound very unpleasant to some ears, and you are free judge always but I think any palestinian (or anyone else) if he is honest will say the same. And I would think it's only fair, nature of men and conflict. Again I think having to make the choice at all is a horrible mistake in itself.

To your second part i'm not sure I'm following, rights from who and obligation to who? If you are referring to palestinians having the same universal rights as everyone else, they absolutely should. Is israel hampering those rights? yes, absolutely it does, but so does their own government and society, in general not many arabs enjoy many of those rights anyway so it is what it is. I mean just look at the rights of palestinians in other muslim countries, even 3rd or 4th generation. No one likes to talk about it because it's inconvenient to the argument but the examples are endless.

If you meant rights in another context then please elaborate, I'm not clear on the obligations part as well
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
40,759
Literally nothing in Israel's foundation was outside International Law, no matter how much pallywood apologists harp on about 'religious' motives of Zionists

sad!

btw, regarding Orgut's post: Total war is not genocide, my grandfather used to say :shifty:
Like I said earlier , I'm trying my hardest not to respond in this thread, but every now and then, something itches my curiosity so hard I can't resist.

So, invading a certain land, forcing its inhabitants out of it, and establishing a country on that said land does not violate any sort of international law?
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,711
How would you choose between the life of a family member and a random person for the sake of argument? you know they are worth the same but are they really equal to you personally? even if it's a clear choice there is a price to pay, and we do pay it as a society (not comparing sufferings before anyone is triggered).I know it may sound very unpleasant to some ears, and you are free judge always but I think any palestinian (or anyone else) if he is honest will say the same. And I would think it's only fair, nature of men and conflict. Again I think having to make the choice at all is a horrible mistake in itself.
I understand that sentiment. It's only natural to look after your own.

To your second part i'm not sure I'm following, rights from who and obligation to who? If you are referring to palestinians having the same universal rights as everyone else, they absolutely should. Is israel hampering those rights? yes, absolutely it does, but so does their own government and society, in general not many arabs enjoy many of those rights anyway so it is what it is. I mean just look at the rights of palestinians in other muslim countries, even 3rd or 4th generation. No one likes to talk about it because it's inconvenient to the argument but the examples are endless.

If you meant rights in another context then please elaborate, I'm not clear on the obligations part as well
No, I meant universal rights. Such as the right to property. Because it is clear that Israel is violating those rights.
 

Tomice

Senior Member
Mar 25, 2009
2,128
I understand that sentiment. It's only natural to look after your own.



No, I meant universal rights. Such as the right to property. Because it is clear that Israel is violating those rights.
Yeah, don't think anyone can or is trying to deny that, it wouldn't stop until we make a deal unfortunately, especially with the current right wing government. I think both sides want a just peace, we just disagree on what is just.

Just out of curiosity you mean right to property regarding the west bank settlements, home demolitions and stuff or the 48 refugees property as well? because honestly I'm not sure I agree with the second part

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So, invading a certain land, forcing its inhabitants out of it, and establishing a country on that said land does not violate any sort of international law?
Well no.

Unless you think it's fair to retroactively apply international law, talking about can of worms

Applying modern moral standards retroactively isn't cool as well btw
 

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