Israeli-Palestinian conflict (36 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No

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Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#7,861
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#7,861
Seven said:
I wasn't talking about you, Fred. You can't disagree with me when I say that some people in this thread do go down that route.

I'm not saying I wouldn't act the same. But I'm not the one on a high horse, if you think things through, Fred ;). Who's the one saying he's a man of principle? Who is the one saying that he is morally superior to the Israelis? Is that me? Really?

I didn't think so.
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You are making yourself out to be morally superior to the one who's saying he's a man of principle, to the one thats saying he's morally superior to the Israeli's, are you not?
 

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Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,862
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,862
Fred said:
You are making yourself out to be morally superior to the one who's saying he's a man of principle, to the one thats saying he's morally superior to the Israeli's, are you not?
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Not really. I'm not claiming anything. I'm merely saying that they are not morally superior to those Israelis, because they'd have them all slaughtered. Do I consider myself morally superior? No, I just said I didn't, I said I'd probably think the same. But I'm clear enough in my mind to say it's not right, even though I'd do it too.
 
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#7,863
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#7,863
Seven said:
It's not about that at all, Fred. There are thousands of Arabs living in Belgium and I have no problem with them whatsoever.

Rab is trying to make it about this, because he can't respond to the little Hitler thingy.
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All due respect to those, but they are mostly immigrants from the Arab Maghreb(Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco) who are a little different than your average Arab. Most of them don't even speak Arabic, am i right?
 
Azzurri7

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
#7,864
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
#7,864
Fred said:
Have you ever heard of the Milgram experiments? Get of your high horse mate, you would probably feel the same way had you been in their shoes.
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Not only him but other several members. Just because it's safe where they post from, just because they live a random normal life they think they can enlighten the people living daily battles on how to react and how it should be done.... Or else the Europeans and States wont be behind them. Like they ever were.
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,865
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,865
Fred said:
All due respect to those, but they are mostly immigrants from the Arab Maghreb(Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco) who are a little different than your average Arab. Most of them don't even speak Arabic, am i right?
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Hmm.. that's a difficult call to make, Fred. A lot do speak Arabic, a lot don't. But if you ask them, they'd probably all say they speak Arabic. I can't really make out the difference between various sections of Arabs, but I think you will forgive me for not knowing everything about Arab culture. Like I said, I have nothing against Arabs anyway. I have no idea why Rab tried to make it about this.
 
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#7,866
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#7,866
Seven said:
Not really. I'm not claiming anything. I'm merely saying that they are not morally superior to those Israelis, because they'd have them all slaughtered. Do I consider myself morally superior? No, I just said I didn't, I said I'd probably think the same. But I'm clear enough in my mind to say it's not right, even though I'd do it too.
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There was some sort of implicit suggestion in your posts that you are morally superior to those people, that much you have to admit.


I will tell you why i don't think these people are the same as Israeli's. These people might want to have all the Israeli's slaughtered, but thats only a reaction to what the Israeli's are doing. Had the Israeli's not done what they've done in Palestine, nobody would have wanted them slaughtered.
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,867
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,867
Azzurri7 said:
Not only him but other several members. Just because it's safe where they post from, just because they live a random normal life they think they can enlighten the people living daily battles on how to react and how it should be done.... Or else the Europeans and States wont be behind them. Like they ever were.
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Doing the same doesn't make it right. That's my point. What is it about this you can't understand? Can you not make an abstraction? Is everything you do morally correct, because you're the one doing it?
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,868
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,868
Fred said:
There was some sort of implicit suggestion in your posts that you are morally superior to those people, that much you have to admit.


I will tell you why i don't think these people are the same as Israeli's. These people might want to have all the Israeli's slaughtered, but thats only a reaction to what the Israeli's are doing. Had the Israeli's not done what they've done in Palestine, nobody would have wanted them slaughtered.
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Perhaps, but we don't know. The only way to show moral superiority now is to not want them slaughtered. But most in this thread can't give me that much. I think it's unfair to expect me to value Turk's ideas of morality higher than those of the average Israeli. Turk has given me nothing, but spite, hate and violence.

As for the implicit suggestion, you are correct, but it was not the point I was trying to make.
 
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#7,869
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#7,869
Seven said:
Hmm.. that's a difficult call to make, Fred. A lot do speak Arabic, a lot don't. But if you ask them, they'd probably all say they speak Arabic. I can't really make out the difference between various sections of Arabs, but I think you will forgive me for not knowing everything about Arab culture. Like I said, I have nothing against Arabs anyway. I have no idea why Rab tried to make it about this.
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Of course you won't know a lot about Arab culture. But believe me, most of those immigrants, even if they do speak Arabic, they probably speak a broken version of Arabic.

Do you know that the Moroccan NT in the 2004 African Cup, only 4 players out of 23 speak Arabic. Do you know that out of this current Algerian team, of the top of my head, approximately 5 out of the 23 speak Arabic.

People from the Arab Maghreb and especially the immigrants to Spain, Holland, France and Belgium have mostly become detached from the Arab culture, language, customs, traditions etc. So i wouldn't really judge Arabs by looking at them.
 
Azzurri7

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
#7,870
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
#7,870
Seven said:
Doing the same doesn't make it right
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I remember you once said in some context when we had an argument "Then watch Israel committing slowest genocides without anyone noticing". Don't you think if we stand up watching them, it will make fasten the genocide they're doing towards Palestinians and other countries?
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,871
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,871
Fred said:
Of course you won't know a lot about Arab culture. But believe me, most of those immigrants, even if they do speak Arabic, they probably speak a broken version of Arabic.

Do you know that the Moroccan NT in the 2004 African Cup, only 4 players out of 23 speak Arabic. Do you know that out of this current Algerian team, of the top of my head, approximately 5 out of the 23 speak Arabic.

People from the Arab Maghreb and especially the immigrants to Spain, Holland, France and Belgium have mostly become detached from the Arab culture, language, customs, traditions etc. So i wouldn't really judge Arabs by looking at them.
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Okay. If you say so, I'll agree, because you obviously know a lot more about this. I don't think I'm judging Arabs though, I'm judging what I read in newspapers, I'm judging the opinions of some here. Perhaps one would feel that my opinions are the product of hate towards Arabs, but they are most definitely not. Unfortunately I can't show you that in any way, because well, you can't look into my head. All I can do is say so.
 
Fred

Fred

Senior Member
#7,872
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
#7,872
Seven said:
Doing the same doesn't make it right. That's my point. What is it about this you can't understand? Can you not make an abstraction? Is everything you do morally correct, because you're the one doing it?
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Of course it doesn't make it right, but history tells us, that in times of war, right and wrong rarely matter at all. I doubt Rab cares much about being morally superior in this case anyway, for him its a matter of his home, his country, his family being in danger from Israel, and because he values those a lot, he is willing to compromise moral superiority.

It might not be right, but it is understandable.


Seven said:
Perhaps, but we don't know. The only way to show moral superiority now is to not want them slaughtered. But most in this thread can't give me that much. I think it's unfair to expect me to value Turk's ideas of morality higher than those of the average Israeli. Turk has given me nothing, but spite, hate and violence.

As for the implicit suggestion, you are correct, but it was not the point I was trying to make.
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Which he probably would not have had Israel not existed. So, if Israel ceases to exist, then maybe we will all live happily ever after :D
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#7,873
Jun 25, 2003
38,236
#7,873
Fred said:
Of course it doesn't make it right, but history tells us, that in times of war, right and wrong rarely matter at all. I doubt Rab cares much about being morally superior in this case anyway, for him its a matter of his home, his country, his family being in danger from Israel, and because he values those a lot, he is willing to compromise moral superiority.

It might not be right, but it is understandable.





Which he probably would not have had Israel not existed. So, if Israel ceases to exist, then maybe we will all live happily ever after :D
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I agree. Right and wrong does rarely matter. And I understand that. But I'm a third party in this. I'm not involved in the conflict. And some of you are saying that I should side with them, because what the Israelis are doing is so wrong. And it is wrong, it is, but if they then admit that you would do something that is just as wrong, why would I side with tem?
 
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