Israeli-Palestinian conflict (24 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


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Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,383
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range

Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activists-autopsy-results
yeah i actually heard about how these people got shot and its sickening!! to be shot in the head from that range is barbaric but whats new?? thats the usual.

AlMustaqbal, a Lebanese newspaper just posted this:

Erdogan thinks of going to Gaza by himself this time.
The Turkish ambassador in Washington specified two conditions that should be implemented in order not to break ties with Israel:

1- Apology for what happened.
2- An independent investigation committee.
so this is how a country with some self respect acts and respect for the feelings of its people acts? shame on a lot of nations who have had people murdered in cold blood and did''nt even call there ambassador for some butt spanking instead we tell them its ok, may be these citizens of X nation deserved to be killed. u did us a favour now we are 10 less or 30 less or 100 less its cool we forgive u, just make sure mama ( the usa) is happy with us and that we have no such thing as human right violations ok? ok no problem.
 

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Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,383
at least they tried despite being fruitless by not reaching its destination in gaza. I expect more convoys hopefully more arab involvement at least for some redemption for how our goverments are acting
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
that woman didnt ask to get killed either, no one would imagine that a "civilized" guy would just run over someone like that; moreover the government forces in iran didnt shoot at people from day 1, they warned them subsequently that they would, so one could even argue that the protesters got more of a warning than the defunct young lady there. At any rate, in both cases some will view the deaths as noble or stupid depending on on;es emotional involvement.
But the protesters in Iran thought that they can change something. What could that girl possibly change? Was she gonna lie down there for the rest of her life? She was gonna stand up sooner or later and the house would have been smashed down anyway.
Not quite true, Deneb. She was going there because she already felt the Israelis were animals, so she could have expected it. Most likely they also warned her. But even if they didn't, how fast do you a bulldozer is? You see it coming. I also agree with Alen, it wasn't really going to change anything. I don't know enough about Iran to make a sensible statement.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
It says "Hitler's children". The 7th picture. :D
Yeah. I noticed that. I think that newspaper is owned by the ruling party. I'm not sure though. We have to ask our Turk.
You "noticed" it? You don't really see a problem with it, do you? I'm not going to get into the whole Holocaust debate again, but people are talking about deporting 5 million Jews (jbf) or killing them all (rab) in this thread and now you post a picture like that.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
not that i dont think what he did in 2006 is epic but i dont quite believe he see's things in there right perspective. its very easy to wage word war's with isreal when u are not a head of state or when u r not responsible for a population of people who dont want to have war all the time. i mean i strongly believe if nasrallah was a head of state his tone would calm down a lot.

once again i;m not saying he does'nt speak the truth or what he says is wrong i'm just saying that its easier for him to do what he does when he is not responsible for a large population of people that he has to consider.
There are more than 300 Million Arabs in this world Ahmed, none of them other than El-Sayed Hassan Nasrallah who stood up to the Israeli's.

I said this before, and i will say it again, i will never agree with this man ideologically and i do think he has his flaws as Rab will tell you too, but there are priorities, and the biggest priority of all is the freedom of the Palestinian people, since he is the only one standing in Israel's face, i am willing to ignore everything else about him.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
I wonder how many people in this thread would have wanted Hitler to finish the job.

As a direct result of the Israeli's inhumanity, you won't believe the amount of people here who have now become supporters of Hitler.

That is stupid though of course, for a number of reasons i think i don't need to go through, but i'm just saying, when you are as cruel and inhumane as the Israeli's are, you can cause people to have some absolutely bizarre opinions.


Admittedly though, most of those people know very little about what the Nazi party is all about, and have probably never heard of the mein kampf either.
 
Jul 2, 2006
18,847
Israel’s prime minister, defense minister and chief of General Staff are among the prime suspects in an investigation initiated by the İstanbul Bakırköy Prosecutor’s Office into Monday’s military operation against a Gaza-bound civilian aid flotilla that left nine peace activists, all of whom were Turkish citizens, dead.

The İstanbul Bakırköy Prosecutor’s Office has started a probe into Israel’s attack. Commandos stormed one of the main ships in the six-vessel flotilla, killing nine and injuring dozens of unarmed civilians in international waters. Prosecutor Mehmet Taştan, who serves at the Ankara Prosecutor’s Office Directives Bureau, is also aiding the Bakırköy prosecutors. He listened to the testimonies of some of the wounded who were brought to Ankara by a Turkish air ambulance.

Among the prosecutors’ evidence are the autopsy reports of the eight Turkish citizens and one US-Turkish dual citizen who were killed in the attack. If the prosecutor’s office can compile enough evidence against Israel at the end of its probe, it will charge Israeli officials with various crimes, including murder, injury, taking hostages, attacking Turkish citizens on the open seas and piracy. The main suspects in the investigation thus far are Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Chief of General Staff Gabi Ashkenazi.

Prosecutor Taştan interviewed all the injured on Wednesday in a hospital in Ankara except for intensive care unit patients. Taştan will send the testimonies to the Bakırköy Prosecutor’s Office and the Ministry of Justice.

Some 500 activists who were aboard the flotilla vessels were brought to Turkey on Wednesday. The survivors were examined at the Council of Forensic Medicine (ATK) to provide more evidence about the attack. The detailed autopsy findings will also be used as evidence against Israel. The reports will include information on the cause of death and the form of death by firearms, such as if they were shot at close range. The ATK is also running tests to see whether any chemical weapons were used against the peace activists.

Turkey’s foreign and justice ministries are also closely following the investigation, which might end up with the indictment of those responsible for the raid. The trial of these suspects will be based on the international Law of the Sea Convention and universal principles regarding a fair trial. To demonstrate that Israel’s intervention was illegal, the prosecutors will emphasize that the ships were in international waters, that the people aboard had waved a white flag of surrender, that the ships were carrying humanitarian aid, that the passengers did not threaten Israel and that no permission for intervention was given by the ships’ captains or countries under whose flags they were sailing. Concrete evidence, such as firing at the victims at close range, and the testimonies of victims will also be included as evidence. If in the meantime an investigatory committee is set up in Israel, the prosecutor’s office will also make use of that commission’s findings.


Yeah. I noticed that. I think that newspaper is owned by the ruling party. I'm not sure though. We have to ask our Turk.
Wiki says you're right.

Yeni Şafak ("New Dawn") is an Islamic-oriented conservative Turkish daily newspaper, known for its close relations with the ruling Islamic Justice and Development Party -- known as the AKP.
Islamic, democrat and liberal papers are supporting them without expecting return. Ruling party don't own them. just for info.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
As a direct result of the Israeli's inhumanity, you won't believe the amount of people here who have now become supporters of Hitler.

That is stupid though of course, for a number of reasons i think i don't need to go through, but i'm just saying, when you are as cruel and inhumane as the Israeli's are, you can cause people to have some absolutely bizarre opinions.


Admittedly though, most of those people know very little about what the Nazi party is all about, and have probably never heard of the mein kampf either.
What I don't get is this:

some of you want to sacrifice your lives. You make this sacrifice because of a principle. At the same time you're admitting that, if you could, you would kill them all. Shipping them to some barren wasteland is also an option. The sheer inhumanity of these ideas need no explaining. How exactly is this any better than what the Jews are doing (and let's call them that, because we know you want to)?

Given the fact that, if we were to support some of you, things would only be worse from a global perspective. In fact, rather than have thousands of Palestinians butchered, we'd have 5 million Jewish casualties. Why would one ever agree to that?

It's as if you're pushing people to side with Israel really.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
You all know I really dislike A LOT of Arab customs and in general I'm not a very big fan of the reasoning of most Arab forum members, but it's about time something is done about the conduct of the Israelis.
You know something. At first I really thought you do all this just because you believe in the things you say, now I'm starting to realize that all this show you're doing is for the attention and nothing more. Just so you can be the center of attention and the special member who's against all odds.

I would understand someone being anti-religion, but I can't cope up with people hating Arabs just because they're Arabs and specially when the know nothing about them nor lived between them.

This shows that objectivity and yourself can't meet up in your posts.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
You know something. At first I really thought you do all this just because you believe in the things you say, now I'm starting to realize that all this show you're doing is for the attention and nothing more. Just so you can be the center of attention and the special member who's against all odds.

I would understand someone being anti-religion, but I can't cope up with people hating Arabs just because they're Arabs and specially when the know nothing about them nor lived between them.

This shows that objectivity and yourself can't meet up in your posts.
Are you kidding me? I don't hate Arabs at all. There's a huge number of them living in Antwerp. Hell, there are Arabs on my football team. Why the fuck would I hate them? I dislike some of the Arabs customs and I do really hate some of their reasonings, but that really doesn't mean I hate Arabs.

You know, you always say I'm playing with words, but there's a big difference between the two and if you can't see that I'm sorry.

And this thing about me wanting to be the center of attention. Please, you'd all go genocidal in this thread, but I'm the one without principle. I'm the one who is being called a sheep, despite the fact that I appear to be one of the only people who actually watch all this with a critical mindset. You want to go through another Holocaust FFS.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Bisco, you're mistaken on too many things. Nasrallah at this very moment is not only considered head of state but much more. He has no political position but he's respected because of his charisma, his work and his promises that he kept.

And It's not Nasrallah who decides when to take Lebanon into a war. Israel decides, they're financially stronger, politically stronger, and they're the invaders, aggressors and we are just a bunch of people protecting ourselves and our land. So it makes a big difference to say he's taking his people into war. He's not. They are bringing the war to us.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Are you kidding me? I don't hate Arabs at all. There's a huge number of them living in Antwerp. Hell, there are Arabs on my football team. Why the fuck would I hate them? I dislike some of the Arabs customs and I do really hate some of their reasonings, but that really doesn't mean I hate Arabs.

You know, you always say I'm playing with words, but there's a big difference between the two and if you can't see that I'm sorry.

And this thing about me wanting to be the center of attention. Please, you'd all go genocidal in this thread, but I'm the one without principle. I'm the one who is being called a sheep, despite the fact that I appear to be one of the only people who actually watch all this with a critical mindset. You want to go through another Holocaust FFS.
Then why is it that you find everything negative about Arabs? Everything they do or say sounds negative to you? There isn't a single thing that you appreciate in/about them. If they defend themselves, if they complain about what is happening, if they want freedom it's all negative to you, Andries.

They're humans just like you, difference is that they're living a miserably life and they're starving to death and they're being humiliated, tortured, stolen, killed. That's the difference. Have some sympathy, and condemning Israel is not what I want but to have a sympathy for those poor people suffering everyday, even right now as we speak people are being killed there. Just stop criticizing a bunch of people that gets no help no arm but themselves. Put religion aside for a moment and use your heart.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
What I don't get is this:

some of you want to sacrifice your lives. You make this sacrifice because of a principle. At the same time you're admitting that, if you could, you would kill them all. Shipping them to some barren wasteland is also an option. The sheer inhumanity of these ideas need no explaining. How exactly is this any better than what the Jews are doing (and let's call them that, because we know you want to)?

Given the fact that, if we were to support some of you, things would only be worse from a global perspective. In fact, rather than have thousands of Palestinians butchered, we'd have 5 million Jewish casualties. Why would one ever agree to that?

It's as if you're pushing people to side with Israel really.

You did read my last post didn't you? Was i not clear that i thought some people were a little too extreme and that i disagreed with them? I really thought i made that clear.


Look, i have a lot of Palestinian friends, most of them have relatives killed, some of them have relatives imprisoned, some of them have relatives living the daily horror, and the inhumane siege in Gaza. After all they've been through, day after day, they wonder if their relatives are going to still be alive when they wake up the next morning.

These people would probably not mind shipping all the Israeli's to some remote place, these people would probably not mind a new Hitler coming out, these people are too emotionally involved to ever be rational about the matter. But who can blame them, when put under certain circumstances a human being is capable of anything.

Have you ever heard of the Milgram experiments? Get of your high horse mate, you would probably feel the same way had you been in their shoes.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Then why is it that you find everything negative about Arabs? Everything they do or say sounds negative to you? There isn't a single thing that you appreciate in/about them. If they defend themselves, if they complain about what is happening, if they want freedom it's all negative to you, Andries.

They're humans just like you, difference is that they're living a miserably life and they're starving to death and they're being humiliated, tortured, stolen, killed. That's the difference. Have some sympathy, and condemning Israel is not what I want but to have a sympathy for those poor people suffering everyday, even right now as we speak people are being killed there. Just stop criticizing a bunch of people that has no help no arm but themselves. Put religion aside for a moment and use your heart.
Nice way to deflect the entire argument, Rab. And as far as I was concerned it wasn't about religion. But I think it is for some. It's Jews, isn't it? It's not Zionists or Israelis. It's Jews.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
You did read my last post didn't you? Was i not clear that i thought some people were a little too extreme and that i disagreed with them? I really thought i made that clear.


Look, i have a lot of Palestinian friends, most of them have relatives killed, some of them have relatives imprisoned, some of them have relatives living the daily horror, and the inhumane siege in Gaza. After all they've been through, day after day, they wonder if their relatives are going to still be alive when they wake up the next morning.

These people would probably not mind shipping all the Israeli's to some remote place, these people would probably not mind a new Hitler coming out, these people are too emotionally involved to ever be rational about the matter. But who can blame them, when put under certain circumstances a human being is capable of anything.

Have you ever heard of the Milligram experiments? Get of your high horse mate, you would probably feel the same way had you been in their shoes.
I wasn't talking about you, Fred. You can't disagree with me when I say that some people in this thread do go down that route.

I'm not saying I wouldn't act the same. But I'm not the one on a high horse, if you think things through, Fred ;). Who's the one saying he's a man of principle? Who is the one saying that he is morally superior to the Israelis? Is that me? Really?

I didn't think so.
 

Fred

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2003
41,113
Anyone who lives between Arabs will know that they are probably the nicest, most hospitable people you will ever find. Its a generalization i know, you can't attribute characteristics like that to a big group of people, but i can say that Arabs really are one of the nicest people you'll find with some degree of confidence.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,235
Anyone who lives between Arabs will know that they are probably the nicest, most hospitable people you will ever find. Its a generalization i know, you can't attribute characteristics like that to a big group of people, but i can say that Arabs really are one of the nicest people you'll find with some degree of confidence.
It's not about that at all, Fred. There are thousands of Arabs living in Belgium and I have no problem with them whatsoever.

Rab is trying to make it about this, because he can't respond to the little Hitler thingy.
 

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