Israeli-Palestinian conflict (59 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

  • Yes

  • No


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OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #4,002
    Rebel, thanks ALOT for those two long articles, especially the one with Mitchell, I doubt anyone of these bickering bozo's read it, but it wa an enlightning read.
    You are welcome, Osman. I saw some interesting info in the articles, and so I posted them to have some discussion about them. Too bad people hate long articles.:(


    Anyway for those who claim Israelis are qualified to have one language and one nationality, just watch the Israeli channels and see how they still until now show their programs translated to Russian because most of the Russian immigrants had nothing to do with Judaism and Hebrew language. They merely came to Palestine because they were so poor in Russia in the 1980s and 1990s and were promised to live in a heaven. They were told to claim some Jewish ancestry to have a justification to bring them to Palestine. The only characteristic they had to be preferred for coming to Palestine is being as that they were more white than the Falasha to qualify to be rated Israelis more than Ethiopian Jews. Read how the Falasha are treated just because of their skin color:


    Israeli minister in Ethiopian racism row


    Israel's interior minister faces accusations of racism after he suggested suspending the policy of allowing Ethiopians with Jewish ancestry to move to the country.

    While rabbinical authorities judge the so-called Falash Mura to be sufficiently Jewish to qualify for Israeli citizenship, Meir Sheetrit said they were not really Jewish and had been let in only because of "political correctness".

    In remarks that incensed the large Falasha community already in Israel, he implied that Ethiopians were fleecing the state by leaving the economic hardship of their birthplace and enjoying comfortable new lives in Israel.

    "Who needs them?" he said in an interview with The Jerusalem Post. "They are all Christians. We need to take care of the future of Israel and this immigration will never finish."

    His comments were denounced as racist by senior members of the Falasha community who pointed out that Jews from white countries were allowed into Israel without any question from the authorities.

    "The way he is expressing himself has a smell of racism about it because he would not say such statements to any other immigrants from America or Russia," said Avraham Neguise, chairman of the Representatives of Ethiopian Immigrant Organisations in Israel.

    "His remarks are unacceptable and irresponsible. The state of Israel is the home for every Jew and is it not the minister's private home.

    "These people have been described and identified as part of Jewish Ethiopian community by the chief rabbinate. They are our blood, our flesh and our bones."

    Ethiopians who come to Israel often complain of not being able to find good jobs and experiencing discrimination.

    Some claim that Israel imposes a quota of 600 Falasha being allowed into Israel each month.

    Others complain that Israel used the Falasha cynically to boost the population as part of the demographic battle with the Palestinians, who have a high birth rate.

    The Falasha are said to be the descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel that trekked south and set up home in the Horn of Africa.

    The claim was strong enough to convince Israeli rabbinical authorities in the 1980s and 1990s when 90,000 were allowed into Israel.

    The first Falasha to move to Israel were unquestionably Jewish. But a new group calling themselves the Falash Mura emerged.

    They were Ethiopians living a Christian lifestyle but who claimed to have been forced to convert to Christianity from Judaism.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1559361/Israeli-minister-in-Ethiopian-racism-row.html
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    It's not quite against my own beliefs. I am sure that you noticed that my views in this thread can be categorised as pragmatic. Now I know that in most European countries it is said that religion cannot be something a state is built upon. I agree with that and so do most international organisations. It is however impossible to dissolve states that are built on religion. Which is why Saudi Arabia exists.

    Now my point is that, if Saudi Arabia can exist, so can Israel. If it were in my power to dissolve Saudi Arabia, I would also dissolve Israel.

    The only one looking like a hypocrite here is you, Jack. The timing of your question is peculiar to say the least.

    2 questions arise here.


    1) What gives European countries the right to "decide" that states can't be built on religion?

    2) For the 100th time, Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic State, you keeo saying your pragmatic, that you deal with facts, you have not brought me any evidence that Saudi Arabia follows Sharia as the basis for their political institution.

    The debate isnt whether Sharia should be followed or not, the question here is, is it followed in Saudi Arabia?
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,252
    2 questions arise here.


    1) What gives European countries the right to "decide" that states can't be built on religion?

    2) For the 100th time, Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic State, you keeo saying your pragmatic, that you deal with facts, you have not brought me any evidence that Saudi Arabia follows Sharia as the basis for their political institution.

    The debate isnt whether Sharia should be followed or not, the question here is, is it followed in Saudi Arabia?
    I think his point is that the Saudi's (and others) masquerade as an "Islamic State" and in the eyes of the international community there is no difference(probably due to ignorance). Even though they may not follow the Sharia.
     

    Fellas

    Farsopoli
    Jun 13, 2005
    3,116
    I feel so much anger against Israel but I will hold it for myself.. isteead I wich the best for all palestines and I hope Israel stops with this.

    Usa and Israel is two countries I will never like.. ok I can respect the people but never the gouverment and how you are destroying the world :)

    May God be with Palestine
     
    Apr 12, 2004
    77,165
    I feel so much anger against Israel but I will hold it for myself.. isteead I wich the best for all palestines and I hope Israel stops with this.

    Usa and Israel is two countries I will never like.. ok I can respect the people but never the gouverment and how you are destroying the world :)

    May God be with Palestine
    Hey, we just got a new government in, so give it a chance.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    I think his point is that the Saudi's (and others) masquerade as an "Islamic State" and in the eyes of the international community there is no difference(probably due to ignorance). Even though they may not follow the Sharia.

    Arab Governments are the biggest hypocrites ever, Algeria claim to be a democracy, can i use it as evidence that democracy is bad.

    I mean isn't Seven doing the same thing? Saudi Arabia is claiming to be an Islamic State, he took their word for it, why can't i take Algeria's word for it and say they are a democracy?
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    ßüякε;1880390 said:
    The KSA is an Islamic State, there is no doubt about that. They follow Islamic Law, which is right out of the Quo'ran.

    They follow Islamic law? Really? Again, how did they elect their rulers?
     
    Apr 12, 2004
    77,165
    They follow Islamic law? Really? Again, how did they elect their rulers?
    Are they elected?

    Because I thought the KSA was a Kingdom, where the rulers are prices and kings, like King Abdullah.

    From Wiki:

    "The central institution of the Saudi Arabian government is the Saudi monarchy. The Basic Law of Government adopted in 1992 declared that Saudi Arabia is a monarchy ruled by the sons and grandsons of the first king, Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. It also claims that the Qur'an is the constitution of the country, which is governed on the basis of the Sharia (Islamic Law). According to The Economist's Democracy Index, the Saudi government is the ninth most authoritarian regime in the world."
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,252
    Arab Governments are the biggest hypocrites ever, Algeria claim to be a democracy, can i use it as evidence that democracy is bad.

    I mean isn't Seven doing the same thing? Saudi Arabia is claiming to be an Islamic State, he took their word for it, why can't i take Algeria's word for it and say they are a democracy?
    If I were Muslim I'd be pretty outrage at the masquerade put on by Arab nations. It tarnishes the purity of Islam.

    In Andries's case his knowledge of Democracy is much greater than his knowledge of Islam. So it's easier to say that Algeria is not a democracy because there is a readily available amount of information on what a democracy is. The same can't be said for the Islam State issue, it's more vague.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    ßüякε;1880403 said:
    No one is talking about that, I'm just saying that it is an Islamic State, nothing more.


    They are as close to being an Islamic state as Rooney is to being a supermodel.
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,252
    ßüякε;1880410 said:
    Are they elected?

    Because I thought the KSA was a Kingdom, where the rulers are prices and kings, like King Abdullah.

    From Wiki:

    "The central institution of the Saudi Arabian government is the Saudi monarchy. The Basic Law of Government adopted in 1992 declared that Saudi Arabia is a monarchy ruled by the sons and grandsons of the first king, Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. It also claims that the Qur'an is the constitution of the country, which is governed on the basis of the Sharia (Islamic Law). According to The Economist's Democracy Index, the Saudi government is the ninth most authoritarian regime in the world."
    ßüякε;1880411 said:
    Are they elected?

    Because I thought the KSA was a Kingdom, where the rulers are prices and kings, like King Abdullah.

    From Wiki:

    "The central institution of the Saudi Arabian government is the Saudi monarchy. The Basic Law of Government adopted in 1992 declared that Saudi Arabia is a monarchy ruled by the sons and grandsons of the first king, Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. It also claims that the Qur'an is the constitution of the country, which is governed on the basis of the Sharia (Islamic Law). According to The Economist's Democracy Index, the Saudi government is the ninth most authoritarian regime in the world."
    DOUBLE POST!!!!
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    If I were Muslim I'd be pretty outrage at the masquerade put on by Arab nations. It tarnishes the purity of Islam.
    Oh i cannot agree more.

    In Andries's case his knowledge of Democracy is much greater than his knowledge of Islam. So it's easier to say that Algeria is not a democracy because there is a readily available amount of information on what a democracy is. The same can't be said for the Islam State issue, it's more vague.

    That is probably the case. It is indeed a flawed argument he uses, Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state because it says so.
     

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