Is this the dip? (4 Viewers)

[Ahmed]

half the teams in Serie B are equal to the last 7 or 8 Serie A teams...and Juve beat most of them comfortably...with a better squad more motivation i think Juve are going to do really well in 07-08...a Scudetto would be unlikely but we should make it to the CL

 

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[ZAF3000]

Good post.. I agree that we lost many players this past summer. And going down to Serie B was a major finantial hit. Alot of things changed if you compare our winning team to the current team.
Management: Moggi, Giraudo and Bettega --> Cobli, Gigli, Blanc, Secco and Bettega
Coach: Lippi --> Deschamps then Ranieri
Owners: Il-Avocatto or Dr. Umberto ---> The Elkanns.
In addtion to many players who have left.

Despite that we won the Serie B title and won our promotion back. Mind you, this was Serie B. Maybe we sort of dominated serie B, but we are Juve we were supposed to do that anyway.
Some positive points:
1- Almost half of the Serie B teams and half of the Serie A teams are very close in terms of streangth. This means that we shouldn't have alot of problems with the weakers teams.
2- Key players like Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon are hopefully staying. This will attract both fans and other players.
3- New coach means new ambitions.

Now the negative points:
1- We had deffensive problems in Serie B, and without our fantastic Buffon and our outstanding Alex we would have lots of problems acheivng what we have acheived in Serie B.
2- We have a new coach. A coach that has never won the Serie A before. The question is now? Will he accept not winning it ? Or getting up to number 3 or 4 up the table will be a good season for him?
3- Our new management are really new it his football world unlike our experienced previous management. Which means they won't get players at best prices, they won't know how to deal with calcio media appropriately ..etc
4- Our squad is aging, They might have played well in Serie B but notice that the up coming season it will be more difficult (serie A) and they will be one year older..

There are other negative points to be taken, but I'll stop here..

In my opinion, we are on sharp edge of a hill its either we fall down or we continue climbing. This upcoming season (in particular this upcoming summer) will be the decisive factor. Because if we dont do well this season we will enter the dark age. We don't have to win the Serie A for us to have a successful season. But we must finish top 4. We must compete for the scudetto so our young players learn from our older players what does a scudetto race feel like so when they take over they know that this is a must thing.
For us to acheive such a thing we have to make important signings. We must get 2 CBs of high quality. If we must, lets get Fabio Cannavaro back. We need stability and solidity in our squad. If we secure this then we can talk about getting a quality midfielder who is creative. After that we can buy at any position of the field.. We must as well keep hold of our high quality players under any cost.
If we do so.. Then the rest is lying on the coach.. But you really can't ask the coach to win without giving him proper players.. Now imagine with me the following formation of Juve:

Buffon
Gregyra
Cananvaro
Barzagli
Chiellini
Camoranesi
Zanneti
Merchesio or sessoko
Nedved
Del Piero
Trezeguet

Sub:
Mirante
Zebina
Balzaretti
Legro
Kovac
Piccolo
Marchionni
Paro
Giannichedda
Palladino
Zalayata
Iaquenta.

 

[JCK]

That's why it's the right time to speculate, it'll be months until our predictions can be verified

That's why I can't be bothered

 

[Stephan]

Let's assume we don't win the league next season, can we all imagine that? Let's say we go back to winning after that, so scudetto in 08/09. Then this is our current squad at the start of 08/09:

Buffon 30
Nedved 36
Camoranesi 32
Del Piero 34
Trezeguet 31

Those are also the only flagship players we have left. Can you honestly hope for big success here?

First Ruud van Nistelrooy is almost 31(in july) and look what a season he has had with real madrid.

Secondly 30 is not terrible or scary for goalkeeper.

We will make transfers during summer, no way will nedved be starter in 08/09.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Good post Martin. I started speculating this last year when we got relegated and the exodus of our players occured. However, I think that now that we're back there's a hunger in us that no one will be able to stop. Does this mean we're going to win Serie A next year? Not at all. But just like every team in Serie B played against us like there's no tomorrow, so will Juve in Serie A. I hope they will play every match with revenge on their mind; I know I will watch every match with this mentality.

Do we need world class players to be competetive? No. Even though none of us are happy with the players we're linked to, I think these players will be capable of giving us a CL spot. Once that happens then we're back and there won't be a reason for Europe's talent not to come to us.

 

[Rami]

Intro:
This goes out to all the women in the world, especially her.
You know it don't even matter your age; it don't even matter your color.
Yo, fellas, I ain't forgettin' 'bout y'all.
This is for everybody who like to dance.
Just listen to what I'm sayin' and do it, and take a chance.
Chorus
I put my hand upon your hip, when I dip, you dip, we dip
You put your hand upon my hip, when you dip, I dip, we dip
I put my hand upon your hip, when I dip, you dip, we dip
You put yours, and I put mine, and we can dip down low and roll and grind!
Verse 1:
Just get on the floor like I said befo'
Y'all remember that "Down Low"!
Just put a little dip wit' it,
Now roll those hips wit' it
Pop it, push it, rock it, roll it
Can't control it? I'll come hold it
It's all in fun so take a chance
Just get on the floor and do that dance, y'all
I know you like this so, don't try to fight it
Turn around, baby, let me see you from the back
Yeah, I like it like that
Get up now, roll those hips,
Drop down, double-up on those dips
Freak Nasty wanna see,
Can y'all do this right here for me?
Chorus
Verse 2:
Back again with the second verse
It's all clean, so I'm not gonna curse
Droppin' bass like a bad habit
Love all women, 'cause I gotta have it
Comin' at y'all in stereo
I'm ridin' that thing like a rodeo
Hang on, baby, 'cause the ride is rough, and ...
[Don't stop till you get enough] {OOH!}
I got my girls in the front
Now a lady just bumpin' that rump
Raise it up, let me see that brown
Slap it, girl, make it jiggle around
Round and round that rump goes
Where it stop, yo, no one knows, yeah
Freak Nasty wanna see,
Can y'all do this right here for me?
Chorus
Well alright, y'all! If you ain't dippin', you must
be trippin'! If you ain't doin it Down Low, you gots
to go! To the people thats movin' slow to the
dance floor! Yo DJ! Pump it up some MO-O-O-O .....
Verse 3:
It's off to the show in a limo
Before the show, I gotta get that dough
Pay them girls what they're worth,
Slip that money under that skirt
Take it off, baby, let me see
You might get a lil' mo' lucci
G-string havin' oh so much fun
Playin' inside, between them buns
Shortie got it on like Marvin
Teasin' me and you know I'm starvin'!
Lick you up, then lick you down
I ain't finished; girl, turn around!
Lick you up and down your back
'Cause I'm that freak, I'm freaky like that!
Freak Nasty wanna see
Can y'all do this right here for me?
Chorus
Verse 4:
I'm settin' it off to another level
You're diggin' Freak Nasty without a shovel
This is my world; I'm just a squirrel
Tryin' to get a nut, so wassup?
Yo, DJ, when the party's getting slow
Join this jam on and watch that floor
Get taken over like in '94,
When I had the whole world gettin' Down Low
New Orleans born, ATL livin'
Freak Nasty's what I'm givin'
My juice is sweet like Georgia Peaches
women suck it up like leeches
Uh-huh, if you're so good,
You must admit you like this shhhhhhhhhh
Yeah, y'all know the song
So come on won't you sing it with me?
Ourto (repeated till fade):
I put my hand upon your hip
When I dip you dip we dip
You put your hand upon my hip
When you dip I dip we dip

 

[Martin]

Do we need world class players to be competetive? No. Even though none of us are happy with the players we're linked to, I think these players will be capable of giving us a CL spot. Once that happens then we're back and there won't be a reason for Europe's talent not to come to us.

That's certainly a hypothesis. Lippi's first era was Davids, Zidane, Inzaghi, DP all in their prime. His second was Nedved, Thuram, Buffon, Trezeguet. And Capello continued that cycle, adding Cannavaro and Ibrahimovic. That's world class alright, and we won the league repeatedly. If you're saying now we don't need world class to be a contender, well that's a whole new proposition. Nor do we have that kind of coach either.

Not that I'm suggesting Ranieri's foreign record should count heavily against him, but afterall this is the guy who with Abramovic's money failed to win anything.

 

[Rami]

The question here is what is world class? Look at Lyon, Villareal, Valencia, Seville...etc. They all made it with arguably no "world class" players.

 

[Zé Tahir]

That's certainly a hypothesis. Lippi's first era was Davids, Zidane, Inzaghi, DP all in their prime. His second was Nedved, Thuram, Buffon, Trezeguet. And Capello continued that cycle, adding Cannavaro and Ibrahimovic. That's world class alright, and we won the league repeatedly. If you're saying now we don't need world class to be a contender, well that's a whole new proposition. Nor do we have that kind of coach either.

Not that I'm suggesting Ranieri's foreign record should count heavily against him, but afterall this is the guy who with Abramovic's money failed to win anything.

Other than what I've read about him I have no knowledge. But from what I've read you're dead wrong. He infact is famous for working with teams with no world class players. He lead Cagliari to Serie A from Serie C1, he took Valencia to their cup final and Uefa cup final, and Abramovic only came in his last year at Chelsea.

And what I meant was that even though we might not have a "wow" team on our hands compared to our last squad and those before that we shouldn't count out our current team. I think with a combination of semi-"wow" players, up-and-coming youngsters, experienced leaders (del piero, nedved, trez, buffon), a seasoned coach, and a hunger for revenge we have all the right ingridients for success. What type of success? That's arguable.

 

[Martin]

The question here is what is world class? Look at Lyon, Villareal, Valencia, Seville...etc. They all made it with arguably no "world class" players.

I was actually talking about Serie A And unfortunately none of the teams you mention have won the CL either. Do you really measure our success in terms of Uefa Cup? I don't think so. "Success" is the scudetto or the CL, that's what it is.

Other than what I've read about him I have no knowledge. But from what I've read you're dead wrong. He infact is famous for working with teams with no world class players. He lead Cagliari to Serie A from Serie C1, he took Valencia to their cup final and Uefa cup final, and Abramovic only came in his last year at Chelsea.

And what I meant was that even though we might not have a "wow" team on our hands compared to our last squad and those before that we shouldn't count out our current team. I think with a combination of semi-"wow" players, up-and-coming youngsters, experienced leaders (del piero, nedved, trez, buffon), a seasoned coach, and a hunger for revenge we have all the right ingridients for success. What type of success? That's arguable.

There are coaches who are good at getting promotions and there are coaches good at winning league titles. I'm impressed with what Ranieri did for Parma this year, but that doesn't mean I have confidence in him at Juve, it's a whole different thing.

 

[Zé Tahir]

I was actually talking about Serie A And unfortunately none of the teams you mention have won the CL either. Do you really measure our success in terms of Uefa Cup? I don't think so. "Success" is the scudetto or the CL, that's what it is.




There are coaches who are good at getting promotions and there are coaches good at winning league titles. I'm impressed with what Ranieri did for Parma this year, but that doesn't mean I have confidence in him at Juve, it's a whole different thing.

Nonetheless, it doesn't mean that he'snot capable of it either. He's never had the opportunity to coach a major Italian side so I say we give him a chance. After all Lippi didn't become Lippi in a day.


anyway..gotta jet. Good post Martin :thumbs:

 

[Rami]

I was actually talking about Serie A And unfortunately none of the teams you mention have won the CL either. Do you really measure our success in terms of Uefa Cup? I don't think so. "Success" is the scudetto or the CL, that's what it is.

Of course not, but what I meant is that next year is critical because it will get us out of the bottleneck called "no europe allure". So if teams with no "world class" players managed to go great length in their local and European campaigns, why can't we? What I am trying to say is, whilst having talent is essential and important, teamwork, passion, hunger, solidarity is even more important.

 

[Martin]

I think you're being too categorical about it. Don't tell me players wouldn't sign for Juve just cause we weren't in the CL. Wouldn't sign for Lyon maybe, over that, but we have (or expect to have) a budget that can accommodate the top stars, at one of the biggest clubs in Europe. If you're thinking "just to get through next season and land in 4th", I'm thinking more the next 3 years.

 

[Rami]

Ok lets go back to the comment that ignited this discussion from my part. You mentioned players that are world class in the two succesful eras of Juve. Players like Zidane, Buffon, Thuram, Ibra, Nedved...etc. The thing is that these players WE made them "world class" (according to my understanding of world class.) These players were brilliant even before joining us, anyone watching them closely would have noticed it. But they weren't recognized globally as "elite" until they joined us.

We don't need "world class" players, we just need brilliant players, or rough diamonds that will flourish into football legends under our eyes

 

[Martin]

Cmon Rami, that's baloney and you know it. Sure, Inzaghi and Vieri, even Zidane, they weren't world class before Juve. But Nedved, Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram definitely.

 

[Rami]

Cmon Rami, that's baloney and you know it. Sure, Inzaghi and Vieri, even Zidane, they weren't world class before Juve. But Nedved, Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram definitely.

Ya maybe I was a bit over-generalizing, but my point still stands. We don't need really need "world class". The under-rated of today are the "world class" of tomorrow

Edit: Perhaps Thuram was world class, he was already a WC champion. I never mentioned Canna. Nedved was generally agreed as a good player, but if one asked who are the best AM in the world in his Lazio days, Nedved wouldn't be mentioned in the top 10. As for Buffon, he was on the bench while Trez and Wiltord were ripping Toldo's net.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

I totally agree, it is too early to say we're in crisis.

the way is see it is that a crisis is very close


good post martin, agree on all read counts

 

[- vOnAm -]

The board want a competitive squad at the highest level to be accomplished in 5 years. I think they weren't kidding although I hope they're just trying to create some breathing room.

I've posted this in another thread, that I don't think winning will be their first priority. They have always talked about pride and honor for the club and how they would like to make a Juve's competitiveness worthy of its tradition. But on the other hand, since last summer we've seen them taking very planned steps in building the Juventus brand.

I think its image building that they are working on, hence the capital increase for rebuilding Juve which includes marketing programs.

The style of football that we play. Getting people back in the stadium and becoming Italy's favorite club is likely to be tha main agenda. And they will try to do this by selling our footballing style instead of just footballing trophies. Lets face it, people who don't know a thing about soccer/football and juve tradition will favor Barcelona over Juve anyday, simply because they employ a more attractive style football.

Ranieri proved himself quite worthy by keeping Parma in serie A, although thats not quite the winning resume, he does have a good style about him and how he conducts press conferences and the like; a well mannered coach. Which is another tool for building a Juve brand.

In the end, the trophies must be there, that is JUVENTUS. But as a start, I guess we'll see....
Can You Accept an Entertaining Loss?

 

[Rami]

Can You Accept an Entertaining Loss?

All what you said is great, and the answer to that question is NO.


Oh and I don't want to be Barca, I don't want I-am-a-juve-fan-because-its-IN fans, or mindless bimbos cheering for Juve.

 

[Edge]

Call me crazy, but I honestly think we will win Serie A next season.