Is it our forwards or is it us? (2 Viewers)

[Zambrotta]

During the 90:s Juventus produced or developed several superstar forwards such as Vieri, Del Piero, Baggio and Ravanelli. Over the last years we have taken in a number of big talents but none of them has come close to our expectations.

Zlatan started really well but ended up in misery. Now he is probably the best forward in the world, playing for Inter.
Inzaghi also did well the first year, but the years after he was not as good. In the end we sold him to Milan where he apart from injuries has been splendid.
Darko Kovacevic was a regular scorer in Spain when he came to us. Here he did well once he got the chance, which he rarely got. In the end he was sold back to Sociedad once again being their leading scorer.
Miccoli came to us after a fantastic season with Empoli, scoring a fantastic goal against Milan and became a national team player. Since coming here he has been sitting on the bench, been loaned out, sold, simply not gotten the chance either. He didn't score any fantastic goals for us, he lost his gli Azzurri status and is now playing in Portuguese league doing rather well.
Di Vaio came here also after a fantastic season with another Italian team, in his case Parma where he had scored 20 goals in 33 games. Here he got one season, being rather mediocre and was then sold.

Why do these super talented forwards and strikers not make it here?
Is something wrong with our system, is something wrong with the whole organiztion or do we simply have a lack of patience?

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

mainly lippi's conviction of playing del piero every game

 

[malducato1]

Don't forget Del Piero and Trezeguet have been with this team a long time and in all honesty a majority of those players are not better than these two guys.

 

[Larry]

Vieri? Baggio? Ravanelli? They had already established themselves before joining Juventus

 

[HelterSkelter]

I wouldnt say Juventus developed Baggio and Vieri.IMO,Fiorentina and Atletico Madrid did that respectivley.

I do get Zambrotta's point to an extent though.I think the whol 'We are at Juventus' bit gets to players.Someone like Del Piero was brought up at Juventus,and he was developed almost entirely at the club.Players like Zlatan,Di Vaio etc,they had to take the big step forward from being with a good team,to a great team,and they probably ended up crumbling under pressure.They did have the skills IMO,but they probably joined the club at the wrong time.Di Vaio for eg,would have always been below Del Piero and Trezeguet in the pecking order,and Zlatan on the other hand did show tons of promise initially,but totally faded away the next season.

 

[Azzurri7]

mainly lippi's conviction of playing del piero every game

Again with your old dilemma Bes?? Lippi picking Del Piero??

We've had soo many discussions about this yet you're not convinced that Del Piero was Lippi's best option to choose from all the forwards we had.

It's like you're asking Benitez to take off Steven Gerrard or Carlo to take bench Kaka. face it, Del Piero during Lippi's time and yes even 01-02...02-03 was unstoppable...so time to get over it my dear Besmir.

 

[Elvin]

mainly lippi's conviction of playing del piero every game

Yeah that's it, you got it Cause we had so many better forwards than Del Piero in these past 14 years... this feeling of regret is just killing me inside as a fan.



PS oh and how did that lucky mofo manage to become an all time best forward, despite of being injured+being a sub under Capello for like 4 years total... now that just blows my mind What's happening to the world?

 

[Zambrotta]

Again with your old dilemma Bes?? Lippi picking Del Piero??

We've had soo many discussions about this yet you're not convinced that Del Piero was Lippi's best option to choose from all the forwards we had.

It's like you're asking Benitez to take off Steven Gerrard or Carlo to take bench Kaka. face it, Del Piero during Lippi's time and yes even 01-02...02-03 was unstoppable...so time to get over it my dear Besmir.

Disregarding how good Del Piero and Trezeguet was, isn't it so that Lippi's conviction to play them has been on the cost of many talented players development. A choice that must have costed us many millions, buying and selling players for just a year is a very costful businees.

 

[Elvin]

What the hell do you think he was supposed to do then?

Seriously, what would you do if you were Lippi back then?

 

[ReBeL]

Don't forget Del Piero and Trezeguet have been with this team a long time and in all honesty a majority of those players are not better than these two guys.

Well, Malducato have put it in a brief proper way...

You can't expect a club to give the chance to more than two strikers, knowing that the main two strikers have already proven they're the best in making the best out of their chances. Statistics confirm that.

You can't expect any brilliant striker to stay in a club where he can't compete with the basic two GOAL-MACHINES...

 

[Wings]

There ia an element of truth in our lack of patience with new forwards & that has led to the lose of many good ones. The other factor being we have always had a talent of killing strikers morale. How do you lift other strikers spirits when you are ready to play the established ones even when they are going through an extremely long & bad form patch?
The other factor being that it is harder for a striker to breakin into a team than say a defender. So whenever these new strikers got their chance it was brief with a lot of expectations. Fact is Juve has never been kind to strikers who don't quickly enough.

 

[Zambrotta]

What the hell do you think he was supposed to do then?

Seriously, what would you do if you were Lippi back then?

My concern here is that we don't stay with our players long enough.

Del Piero and Trezeguet have been with us a long time and will be our first choices unless the new players really prove they are worth to play. Has this been made clear to the players?
Either it has not and the new players decide to leave or we just don't have enough patience. It takes time to get used to new coaches, players and systems. It also takes time to settle in a new town. We ought to make sure the new players stay with us for a longer period. This buying and selling players every other year is not a financially or strategically smart way of building a team.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

i can tell you of the top of my head one such situation. del piero gets injured, the big game against milan, di vaio comes in and scores an amazing goal and plays a great game. when del piero comes back, di vaio is automatically on the bench

so you all, wake up, that is/was/will be part of the reason

every coach has their favourites, for lippi it was dp, for capello it was zlatan

 

[Mark]

They do make it here and then we dump them for better players or because they do everything to join an honest club*cough*Zlatan*cough*.

and what my fellow Canadian said.

 

[Maresca]

Again with your old dilemma Bes?? Lippi picking Del Piero??

We've had soo many discussions about this yet you're not convinced that Del Piero was Lippi's best option to choose from all the forwards we had.

It's like you're asking Benitez to take off Steven Gerrard or Carlo to take bench Kaka. face it, Del Piero during Lippi's time and yes even 01-02...02-03 was unstoppable...so time to get over it my dear Besmir.

wordint:

 

[jumbo]

Hey guys, where is this amazing striker Di Vaio now?

I haven't heard his name since he left Juve. Surely it can't be because he doesn't even make the bench on a lower-end-of-the-table team?

PS I REALLY don't know where he is now.

 

[Mark]

Hey guys, where is this amazing striker Di Vaio now?

I haven't heard his name since he left Juve. Surely it can't be because he doesn't even make the bench on a lower-end-of-the-table team?

PS I REALLY don't know where he is now.

Serie B with Genoa.

We sold him to Valencia, didn't work out...sold to Monaco and now plays for Genoa.

 

[Dominic]

Bes speaks the truth. Rightfully so or not, constantly playing Trezeguet and Del Piero, no matter what, limits any playing time of any other potentially good forwards we have and had and thus limits any development.

 

[Bjerknes]

Zlatan was always talented and received priority treatment from Capello. However, he is simply a rude, loathesome supposed professional who is perfect for Inter. We do not need a lazy dunderhead of a player walking back to the 50 and getting caught offsides every other through ball at this club. So Zlatan does not really count in this discussion.

Inzaghi received playing time and was not a bad partner for Alex, however once Trezeguet arrived it was clear Pippo was heading for the exits. Personally I never thought much of the guy and he's always the sort of player to be hot and cold... most goal poachers are actually. Except for world class poachers such as Trezeguet.

Kovacevic, as Zambrotta said, never really got a chance here at Juventus due to the likes of Del Piero and Inzaghi being first choice. Even though I liked Darko better as a player for his strengh up top, Inzaghi was more established was somewhat of a proven goalscorer in Italy.

Miccoli was good for Perugia but not that spectacular. His goal against Milan was one of his few highlights and while he had potential, he seemed to not be able to show much worth when Lippi brought him on. Perhaps Lippi should have played him more at the expense of Del Piero, however the latter afterall is our captain and proven player.

Di Vaio was a proven goalscorer at Parma and scored a bunch of goals for us while Trezeguet was out with injury, however when David came back there was only going to be one plot... Di Vaio sitting on the bench.

Some players simply cannot cut it at the big clubs... whether the reason is because of the pressure or because he is no longer the star player, nobody knows. Juventus tends to hoard a bunch of talents with co-ownerships and snapping them up at an early age, but it is no secret that some of those talents will languish on our bench or at another club. Or perhaps that talent never develops because the player never really had any to begin with and was simply a flash in the pan. Who knows really.

But what we do know is that big football clubs swing players around left and right, and that tends to destroy talent. It's just part of the business and the player must deal with it. Football is football whether it's played in Turin or Bergamo, Catanzaro or Frosinone. However, I can perfectly see why some believe big clubs cast a negative shade over football.

 

[Snoop]

I wish if we kept Inzagol, but economicaly that was a good deal tbh