Iraq. Is it better now?? (AKA ISIS/ISIL/IS/name-of-the-week-here) (31 Viewers)

[ReBeL]

Well I thought you asked people if they believe the situation is better now in Iraq.

Yes, I did.

But people tended to ignore the question and focused on discussing whether Saddam was bad or not.

Well, from what I hear and see, it was much better in Saddam's era.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[king Ale]

For making a fair comparison, you must take a look at the situation with Saddam at power. You would then know that it's impossible to expect a quick change in the right way after more than two decades of repressive dictatorship.

What you see and hear tells you about the situation at the moment which is bad undoubtedly but you need to have a more thorough way of seeing things. It is somehow impossible to be at a worse situation than it was under Saddam. A change within the regime was bound to take many lives anyway, even if it wasn't for the war. And still, the chances for it to fail were huge. It is now taking lives too but at least you know that the tyranny is overthrown. It was the path which must have been taken sooner than later.

We know that the US didn't do it to bring democracy to Iraqi people, but it will in the end no matter what the actual intentions were behind this.

I think you are having a grudge against the "we are granting you democracy" thing but unfortunately it seems to me that it has clouded your judgment Abed.

 

[ReBeL]

For making a fair comparison, you must take a look at the situation with Saddam at power. You would then know that it's impossible to expect a quick change in the right way after more than two decades of repressive dictatorship.

What you see and hear tells you about the situation at the moment which is bad undoubtedly but you need to have a more thorough way of seeing things. It is somehow impossible to be at a worse situation than it was under Saddam. A change within the regime was bound to take many lives anyway, even if it wasn't for the war. And still, the chances for it to fail were huge. It is now taking lives too but at least you know that the tyranny is overthrown. It was the path which must have been taken sooner than later.

We know that the US didn't do it to bring democracy to Iraqi people, but it will in the end no matter what the actual intentions were behind this.

I think you are having a grudge against the "we are granting you democracy" thing but unfortunately it seems to me that it has clouded your judgment Abed.

Well, I'm talking about the life of an normal Iraqi man.

During Saddam's era, he could live a good life with a very small amount of cash. There was no big percentage of random crimes like nowadays. He could have electricity and water all the time. Many Sunni people used to have married Shiiah people without any problem. There was merely any difference between the two sects.

During the American occupation era, the Iraqi man lost many things. His safety is the most important. He has a big probability of going out of the house to buy vegetables and not coming back ever. No electricity. No clean water for many cities. There is no political regime ruling everybody. Just a group of mercenaries fighting over useless seats.

 

[king Ale]

It's not fair to compare the two eras like that. It is the cost that Iraqi people had to pay if they ever were to have a better life like you can see it in many similar examples throughout the centuries all over the world; You accept to put up with an equally bad or an even worse situation only so that you could rebuild it in a better way.

As long as I am given the right to have the least part in choosing those who are ruling my country, I'd take that as small as it is because I believe in small and slow reformations more than I do in quick and drastic changes even if it takes all my lifetime until my country becomes a free one. It was impossible in Iraq.

 

[ReBeL]

It's not fair to compare the two eras like that. It is the cost that Iraqi people had to pay if they ever were to have a better life like you can see it in many similar examples throughout the centuries all over the world; You accept to put up with an equally bad or an even worse situation only so that you could rebuild it in a better way.

As long as I am given the right to have the least part in choosing those who are ruling my country, I'd take that as small as it is because I believe in small and slow reformations more than I do in quick and drastic changes even if it takes all my lifetime until my country becomes a free one. It was impossible in Iraq.

And do you feel that Iraqis can choose those who should rule their country taking in consideration that it is a colony currently.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Hoori, it has to be said: I love you how you can throw down with the boys day in and day out. You just roll up your sleeves and get in the mud

 

[Martin]

Hoori, it has to be said: I love you how you can throw down with the boys day in and day out. You just roll up your sleeves and get in the mud

sexist

 

[king Ale]

And do you feel that Iraqis can choose those who should rule their country taking in consideration that it is a colony currently.

Chances for that are now much bigger than it was when Saddam was at power.

Hoori, it has to be said: I love you how you can throw down with the boys day in and day out. You just roll up your sleeves and get in the mud

Only 10 days are left until the summer holidays are over so I'm doing my best

 

[ReBeL]

Chances for that are now much bigger than it was when Saddam was at power.

I highly doubt it. The Iraqi people know that all the current politicians there are working for either USA or Iran, but for sure they do not work for Iraq itself.

 

[king Ale]

I hope time will prove you wrong :smile:

 

[Enron]

Iraq needs politicians/a government that is for Iraqis, by Iraqis, and made up of Iraqis. Politically, the US needs to take it's hands out of the situation and quit trying to force the issue of democracy. This never works. If people are forced to do something, they'll almost always reject it.

The situation in Iraq is going to take years, maybe decades to stabilize. Saddam was a bastard, tyrant, dictator, but he was also a keystone that held the nation together. When he was removed, everything fell apart. The security and stability in the nation crumbled as usually happens when a regime is removed and not immediately replaced.

Is Iraq right now better than it was under Saddam?

For some people yes. For people that value freedom and a future more than security and safety Iraq is in a better position.

For others the answer is probably no. For those who would rather keep their heads down and live safely and securely enjoying a meager life, today's Iraq is a nightmare.

One thing is for sure, today's Iraq is a brand new nation compared to Iraq in the time of Saddam.

No one can really say what the future will be. I certainly hope Iraq can most past the position on today and become successful in the future.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

one of the worst crimes committed by the US

 

[IrishZebra]

one of the worst crimes committed by the US

Perez Hilton

 

[Bjerknes]

one of the worst crimes committed by the US

Not only against Iraqis, but also against the American people. Thousands of American troops killed in action or injured and billions in taxpayer dollars wasted under false pretenses. Unfortunately for us, the only thing this stupid war has accomplished was corporate contracts in Iraq and a worsened reputation with our creditors.

All in all, bad for the American people, and bad for most Iraqis.

 

[Enron]

Yeah it was a bad decision, always will be.

 

[Enron]

one of the worst crimes committed by the US

The worst or top 5?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

probably worst, considering the cost and the future repercussions

 

[Enron]

probably worst, considering the cost and the future repercussions

I've always though Vietnam and Afganistan were pretty bad. And then there's central America.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I've always though Vietnam and Afganistan were pretty bad. And then there's central America.

vietnam is a completely different beast, a lot of naivete on the US part there, plus it ended as soon US left. this had/will have a bigger human toll and will continue to linger for a while.

 

[Enron]

It was such a stable region before the invasion that I guess it was like throwing gas on a fire.