inter under investigation? (22 Viewers)

Omair

Herticity
Sep 27, 2006
3,254
#41
They revoked our 2006 Scudetto based on irregularities during 2004-05, and reasoned that had Juve been exposed at the time then Juve would have not been in Serie A for 2005-06 and thus could not win the Scudetto.

So, if Inter are found to have falsified tax records to become eligible for the the 2005-06 season, why should they retain the "Scudetto" assigned to them? Shouldn't the Corrupt Republic apply the same rationale and vacate that Scudetto like our 2005 crown?
Cannot agree more :agree:
 

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AngelaL

Jinx Minx
Aug 25, 2006
10,215
#44
obviously not everyone else since juve have always been calcio's scapegoat - ALWAYS has serie A actually improved at all? no, just as,if not more corrupt than ever before with wild dogs like moratti let loose to screw up the league like he has with his so called team
That's true. Even non-Juventini know that.

They revoked our 2006 Scudetto based on irregularities during 2004-05, and reasoned that had Juve been exposed at the time then Juve would have not been in Serie A for 2005-06 and thus could not win the Scudetto.

So, if Inter are found to have falsified tax records to become eligible for the the 2005-06 season, why should they retain the "Scudetto" assigned to them? Shouldn't the Corrupt Republic apply the same rationale and vacate that Scudetto like our 2005 crown?
:agree: ..and demote them. After all Juventus were penalised on the basis that as Moggi & Girauldi were charged to have done wrong; therefore inter (the team) should also be punished for any wrongdoing their "office monkeys" have done.
 

Alltagsheld

Senior Member
Oct 10, 2006
3,183
#45
You really bring a smile to my face, sometimes.

The proof, bring me the proof.

And while you look for them, go to read also the sportive verdict that sent us to b. Pages 60-65, to be more precise. It states that no art 6 was broken. It states how they had to make up a new illicit to be able to relegate us. This, of course, it's out of anything ever seen in civil state. Laws can't be retroactive.

And while you search (and you will search for a long time), look also for the act of the ordinary justice that archives the case exactly on this matter, because considered as pointless, since months of investigation didn't bring them to anything that could make them suspect that the Championship was influenced by illicit behaviors. Yeah, the material was the same used for the sportive trail, but, in this case, the prosecutors weren't named by Guido Rossi.

If you still have a bit of time, read Sandulli's words. Sandulli was the head of the court that send us to B on appeal. He said: “There weren’t proofs, the verdict should probably been read and reconsidered altogether”. What about when he says that the Championship was regular, a part from maybe one match, Lecce-Parma?

Of course also De Biase's, Benedetto's and Cossiga's (Head of the Figc's prosecutor office during the calcio scandal of the '80s, ex sportive judge, ex president of the italian Republic) words on the matter are very interesting.

There would be much more to say, but I'll end just reminding you that the use of phone taps in any procedure different from the one they were disposed for is illegal itself. And this goes from the printing on newspapers to the use of such taps in other trials.

Btw, is it really possible that an ex dipendent of the railways could have more power of the sponsor of the championships (TIM) and the TV station that is vital for the survival of the championship itself (MEDIASET)?
:agree: :agree: :agree:
 
Mar 6, 2005
6,223
#47
BRING YOU THE PROOF???

You are the one that has something to prove, YOU think Juve are innocent, YOU think they have been done wrong.

EVERYONE else has accepted it.

So, YOU bring ME the proof....

(I didn't read anything but the first 18 words of your post because I only read posts less than 15 lines [including spaces])

Ohh, and just to let you know, since you are one of the rare TRUE Italians on here, I'll give you a little leeway, but I will be pretty harsh since I think you are a biased close-minded Hochkonjunkturhochkonjunkturmädchen. Ohh, and you make me smile too, when I look down. ;)
lol, burke, accepting something doesn't mean that it is true.. What about accepting something (with or without proof) for the sake of spite? You hate X, everyone hates X, someone spreads a rumour about X, so naturally everyone would want to believe that.. Now, did you stop and think if it is true? did you look at the evidence?
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
#48
lol, burke, accepting something doesn't mean that it is true.. What about accepting something (with or without proof) for the sake of spite? You hate X, everyone hates X, someone spreads a rumour about X, so naturally everyone would want to believe that.. Now, did you stop and think if it is true? did you look at the evidence?
Like a God?
 
Mar 24, 2006
13,949
#49
why dont u stop insulting my love for juve i bleed black n white cuz i was born to support them, not to cheer them for 90 mins and do it all again the next week, my juve maglia is my skin, my blood is black n white, if u cant appreciate that, do urself a favour and join the binter gang, i dont appreciate lame ass replies like that.
:cry: u just like me guys , i will love juventus until my last breathe . FORZA JUVENTUS !!!
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
#50
No,not like a God, like a football fan, you are not a Juve fan but did you EVER encountered such a hostile,provocative and unfair behavior against a football club?
You were present those days! You saw what happened, how can you say that?
I think you already know so many details and you are smart enough to understand that our conviction wasnt... natural.
Do you have the impression that justice prevailed?
were you really convinced of this circus??
 

C4ISR

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2005
2,362
#51
Well said again ishaa00.

Its funny how anytime a Juve fan tries to challenge what happened were labelled as being in denail. Fact of the matter is, the evidence is right infront of us. Read the verdicts, they prove that Moggi didn't actually fix any matches or bribe any refs. Its right infront of us ffs. The only people in denial are the ones who fail to accept these basic facts, which show calciogate for what it really is; Inter Milan fabircated scandal. Their name pops up alot, and if these links were painted in black and white, it would be a whole new story. The hypocrisy here is incredible.
 

isha00

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2003
5,114
#53
BRING YOU THE PROOF???

You are the one that has something to prove, YOU think Juve are innocent, YOU think they have been done wrong.

EVERYONE else has accepted it.

So, YOU bring ME the proof....

(I didn't read anything but the first 18 words of your post because I only read posts less than 15 lines [including spaces])

Ohh, and just to let you know, since you are one of the rare TRUE Italians on here, I'll give you a little leeway, but I will be pretty harsh since I think you are a biased close-minded Hochkonjunkturhochkonjunkturmädchen. Ohh, and you make me smile too, when I look down. ;)
I guess you live in an alternate universe.

But, you know, in the real world, the one we live in, people are innocent until proven guilty. This means that it's you that has to provide proof.

Btw, your admitting that you don't read anything more than 15 lines long (too difficult, perhaps? Or it's just your close-mindness?), means you never tried to learn a bit on the matter. Basically, you don't know anything that has gone on. So it's quite laughable that you come and tell me what is true and what is not.
 

Marc

Softcore Juventino
Jul 14, 2006
21,649
#54
Well said again ishaa00.

Its funny how anytime a Juve fan tries to challenge what happened were labelled as being in denail. Fact of the matter is, the evidence is right infront of us. Read the verdicts, they prove that Moggi didn't actually fix any matches or bribe any refs. Its right infront of us ffs. The only people in denial are the ones who fail to accept these basic facts, which show calciogate for what it really is; Inter Milan fabircated scandal. Their name pops up alot, and if these links were painted in black and white, it would be a whole new story. The hypocrisy here is incredible.
No, it´s incredible how every Juve fan is 100% sure that Juve did nothing wrong.

You can bring your story anywhere, even to the supreme court, but it won´t get you any good, will it?


I guess you live in an alternate universe.

But, you know, in the real world, the one we live in, people are innocent until proven guilty. This means that it's you that has to provide proof.

Btw, your admitting that you don't read anything more than 15 lines long (too difficult, perhaps? Or it's just your close-mindness?), means you never tried to learn a bit on the matter. Basically, you don't know anything that has gone on. So it's quite laughable that you come and tell me what is true and what is not.
Were you an investigator in the Calciopoli or something like that?
 

djleli

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2004
3,579
#55
there are big fak ups in the inter financial : example there was a player which i dont think i ever heard his name, which from inter he was sold to san marino for 3.5 million, how can a club like san marino afford such tranfers... where the whole club isnt worth half that sum... there are many of these misfits and thats why they are under investiagtion
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
#56
I guess you live in an alternate universe.

But, you know, in the real world, the one we live in, people are innocent until proven guilty. This means that it's you that has to provide proof.

Btw, your admitting that you don't read anything more than 15 lines long (too difficult, perhaps? Or it's just your close-mindness?), means you never tried to learn a bit on the matter. Basically, you don't know anything that has gone on. So it's quite laughable that you come and tell me what is true and what is not.
Isha, my historian friend once told me that in an Ancient Rome, you were assumed to be guilty until proven, is that true?

Anyway, I think there are certain bias in a present juridical process towards favoring the guilty over prosecutor, for the fact that one can only be sentenced if the amounting evidence puts the case beyond any "reasonable doubt". And I am not too sure whether you can consider "Not guilty until Proven" to be a moral principle, which are justified in intuitive sense. Of course nobody wants to indict innocent for a crime they did not commit, and must be considered injustice. Alternatively, however, I find it equally disgusting that certain people, who with good probability have committed crime in a "spiritual sense", use the aforementioned principle for their benefit. Morally, an act of stealing by the rich from the poor, which results in a death of the latter due to poor nutrition etc and the society failures to prevent such injustice, is no different to say decapitating the innocent.

Personally, I do believe that the society should operate on the principle you argue. But what I would like to point out is that we should not take too much dogmatic stance on its virtue, and frankly I am alarmed by many people's unquestioning attitude, which almost borders on article of faith.

Now with regards to Juventus case, and largely thanks to your great efforts, which I believe the majority of members greatly appreciate, I honestly believe you are right on this issue. There seems to be virtually no evidence (the point which we have discussed thoroughly), never mind fulfilling the sufficiency, to verdict Juve as guilty. And I have seen some signs that Inter may be committing the same crime they accused us. I am not sure many Mutu got suspended on the basis of "disciplinary" reason for the match against Inter. Sounds awfully fish to me. Furthermore, one should not be so narrow in terms of defining cheating in terms of fixing result on the pitch. Any attempts to buy players on the money which they cannot reasonably generate, thus causing distress to the entire system, or attempts to falsify players document to pretend he is "Italian", are from sporting perspective equally fraud. Hell, we might as just treat all South Americans to be Italian so that Serie A can be full of best players like Dinho, Messi, again.

Nonetheless, I think we should let this go. Not because I love Inter, or that they are the one who sides the justice. It is simple based on the fact that any more implications could be deadly for the future of Serie A. I hope you realize people perception's of Serie A isn't too good ATM. One more big scandal, then the damage could be irreversible. Its pity really, because initial scandal was borne out of fabrication which never existed as you point out. But if we see Inter's recent turmoil as a vendetta for their initial strike, then both of us will suffer, and there will be no winners in the end. What is the merit of being a king of the league which potentially could be barely better than Portuguese or the Dutch League? As far as I am concerned, Borelli is a real bastard here. He is on the case to make a name for himself - its more than the petty notion of justice. If he really did care about justice, well, I can tell him there are much more mundane but more meaningful cases than football teams cheating against each other. The guy wants, like the majority of lawyers, a high profile case, to boost his name value. But what he doesnt realize that he is destroying a national treasure.

The whole episode reminds me of a fable I heard as a kid: A monkey comes into to act as an arbiter of disputes. And in the end, two people's infatuation to get more than the other, regardless of the size of the pie, results in monkey eating the whole pie by himself.
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
#57
I guess you live in an alternate universe.

But, you know, in the real world, the one we live in, people are innocent until proven guilty. This means that it's you that has to provide proof.

Btw, your admitting that you don't read anything more than 15 lines long (too difficult, perhaps? Or it's just your close-mindness?), means you never tried to learn a bit on the matter. Basically, you don't know anything that has gone on. So it's quite laughable that you come and tell me what is true and what is not.
You're.

I'm American, I'll tell you what is going on, you will take it and like it.

AND PLUS, you are not in America where the Innocent until proven Guilty actually holds water. You live in Europe where the last time anyone tried to prove "an Innocent man Guilty," Poland fell off the map.
 

C4ISR

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2005
2,362
#58
No, it´s incredible how every Juve fan is 100% sure that Juve did nothing wrong.

You can bring your story anywhere, even to the supreme court, but it won´t get you any good, will it?




Were you an investigator in the Calciopoli or something like that?
Its not a matter of being totally innocent or completely guilty, but a matter of being held accountable for what u actually did. Just because Moggi did some things, doesn't make him guilty of everything.

Innocent until proven guilty, and there was more than enough doubt to show he was innocent on a big chunk of the things thrown at him. That point is reflected in the fact the ordinary justice didn't go after Moggi because they knew it was a dead end. Only through a nice marriage of Interista did it become a scandal.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
#59
You're.

I'm American, I'll tell you what is going on, you will take it and like it.

AND PLUS, you are not in America where the Innocent until proven Guilty actually holds water. You live in Europe where the last time anyone tried to prove "an Innocent man Guilty," Poland fell off the map.
Funny. My American-made map shows Poland somewhere near Cleveland.
 

Esteban

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2005
5,365
#60
Its not a matter of being totally innocent or completely guilty, but a matter of being held accountable for what u actually did. Just because Moggi did some things, doesn't make him guilty of everything.

Innocent until proven guilty, and there was more than enough doubt to show he was innocent on a big chunk of the things thrown at him. That point is reflected in the fact the ordinary justice didn't go after Moggi because they knew it was a dead end. Only through a nice marriage of Interista did it become a scandal.

Give it a rest. Trolls like mark83 need to feel a bit rebellious at times, which is why he decided to go against his fellow Juventini on this one. In reality, he knows nothing about the matter.
 

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