"I support Muslims who love freedom" (6 Viewers)

[rounder]

I agree.

I also wish you got hit a lot as a kid.

You saying I don't have character you little punk? Huh?

 

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[Buck Fuddy]

Yes.

 

[Martin]

Martin, if your question is 'why should adults be treated differently?'; Fred already gave you plenty of reasons why. There's no point trying to twist the argument. The premise here is clear. You are far more likely to be aware of your actions as you grow older and chances are; the opposite is also true. If you are not very aware of the consequences of your actions, then of course an authority should be able to tell you what to do. You can't just expect a child to rationally figure out everything for himself. That's why parents use this method with children; they use corporal punishment to try to implement a sort of behavior which they see appropriate.


So why don't we hit an adult's wrists with a ruler? Because we expect adults to understand the consequences of their actions and be responsive to verbal threats. If you tell an adult, 'don't do this or I will fire you'; he is likely to respond. This isn't the same with kids. At least not all the time. If you tell a child, 'Play nice or I will take away your toys', the child is going to do one of two things. Either he will listen to you, or he will play rough in spite of you.

What happens in schools? You get the kids who had gone through good parenting, and those who had gone through bad parenting. The former group respond well to threats because they understand the consequences of their actions. The latter group does not respond to threats and are likely to rebel against their teachers when presented with one. That's probably why teachers use corporal punishment in some schools, to try to discipline those who constantly misbehave and are unresponsive verbal warnings.

Is that humane? Is it moral? These questions are circumstantial. If a child is causing harm and disruption to his classmates and class and nothing other than corporal punishment can discipline him; then it's not immoral. If a child is spanked and punished and his parents and teachers resort to physical punishment as their first option; then yes, it could be considered immoral.

These methods may seem primitive and unappealing and I don't happen to agree with them personally. I certainly wouldn't want to physically harm my child no matter how little pain is inflicted, but to go out and say that it's child abuse is being a little too dramatic. I see it as a method of parenting that could be effective or not, depending on the child; is it the best method? Probably not. Could it be useful? Maybe. Is it child abuse? Certainly not.

I get it, you're saying that parents are cavemen with no intelligence and it's a miracle as it is that they can keep the offspring alive, we should all be applauding.

"When a child is unruly you have to hit it" is an argument out of the Stone Age and evidently lots of people are awfully skeptical of social progress, so why don't we just stay there.

I was hit too as a child (not in school of course), and no I wasn't scared by it, and yet I don't plan to do that myself. Because I've witnessed parenting that is far more effective.

 

[rounder]

I get it, you're saying that parents are cavemen with no intelligence and it's a miracle as it is that they can keep the offspring alive, we should all be applauding.

"When a child is unruly you have to hit it" is an argument out of the Stone Age and evidently lots of people are awfully skeptical of social progress, so why don't we just stay there.

I was hit too as a child (not in school of course), and no I wasn't scared by it, and yet I don't plan to do that myself. Because I've witnessed parenting that is far more effective.

The problem here is not that you want social progress and we don't. Like I said, I would never want to harm my children for whatever reason. The difference is that you think that hitting a child's wrist with a ruler is a moral abomination. I just see it as a way of parenting that even though I do believe is primitive, I do not necessarily see it as barbaric and evil as you describe it.

There are certainly much bigger problems in the world than corporal punishment, and I assure you that human progress is not as negatively affected or going to be put to a halt by this phenomenon as you might think. I just don't think this should be an issue at all, in fact, I don't think it would have been brought up if it weren't for the religious indoctrination.

You certainly wouldn't have opened a thread condemning people for the act of corporally punishing their children in itself. I highly doubt you really see that as a problem. I think you have a problem with incorporating this method of punishing with religious brainwashing and so do I, but to say that it is immoral would be very hypocritical to say the least.

 

[Martin]

The problem here is not that you want social progress and we don't. Like I said, I would never want to harm my children for whatever reason. The difference is that you think that hitting a child's wrist with a ruler is a moral abomination. I just see it as a way of parenting that even though I do believe is primitive, I do not necessarily see it as barbaric and evil as you describe it.

I think the example you set is a moral abomination, and barbaric. Not the hitting itself, but the message that goes with it. It's one thing if kids fight amongst each other, they're just kids. But when we are cool with adults hitting kids there's something very wrong with that.

But there is another aspect of this that bothers me a lot, namely what Fred was talking about as "light" violence. Indeed, there is a big difference between hitting a kid on his fingers with a ruler and kicking him down the stairs. Nevertheless, we do not legislate violence among adults on the basis of what is light and what is serious. Because it would set a horribly bad precedent. And just in case you're wondering, I absolutely do not trust the judgment of all these people to stay within the "acceptable" limits. Violence shouldn't be acceptable, it's a historical relic and we should be trying to stop it.

You certainly wouldn't have opened a thread condemning people for the act of corporally punishing their children in itself. I highly doubt you really see that as a problem. I think you have a problem with incorporating this method of punishing with religious brainwashing and so do I, but to say that it is immoral would be very hypocritical to say the least.

I didn't start this debate either, did I? It was Jay who posted a few videos and that's where it began. So whether I start the thread or just reply to it what difference does it make?

And you're utterly mistaken saying that I only would make a stir out of hitting kids in a religious context. The religious part is completely irrelevant to the ethical value of this practice.

 

[Fred]

jiess that but makleen khara regardless

Join the club. I was getting a lot more than that until 5th grade. Perhaps that's what screwed me up this bad
Viva communism.

Like i said before, i don't categorize Eastern Europeans with the Western Europeans, the latter need to man up a bit

 

[JuveJay]

Guilty as charged.

 

[JuveJay]

Like i said before, i don't categorize Eastern Europeans with the Western Europeans, the latter need to man up a bit

I used to beat my teachers and make them cry.

I'm only half joking.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

like beat them up?

 

[JuveJay]

No not really, some used to cry though, personality clash or something.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I had a teacher who killed himself and we all agreed that it was one particular student's (not me) fault.

 

[rounder]

I think the example you set is a moral abomination, and barbaric. Not the hitting itself, but the message that goes with it. It's one thing if kids fight amongst each other, they're just kids. But when we are cool with adults hitting kids there's something very wrong with that.

But there is another aspect of this that bothers me a lot, namely what Fred was talking about as "light" violence. Indeed, there is a big difference between hitting a kid on his fingers with a ruler and kicking him down the stairs. Nevertheless, we do not legislate violence among adults on the basis of what is light and what is serious. Because it would set a horribly bad precedent. And just in case you're wondering, I absolutely do not trust the judgment of all these people to stay within the "acceptable" limits. Violence shouldn't be acceptable, it's a historical relic and we should be trying to stop it.

Of course we do. If I tap your wrist with a ruler, I would go to jail? Seriously?
There are certainly different levels of physical punishment, and surely, it's very hard to see that the tapping of one's wrist should not even be in the same sentence as violence.

I didn't start this debate either, did I? It was Jay who posted a few videos and that's where it began. So whether I start the thread or just reply to it what difference does it make?

And you're utterly mistaken saying that I only would make a stir out of hitting kids in a religious context. The religious part is completely irrelevant to the ethical value of this practice.

Well, you were criticizing the religious aspect of it a few pages back. Given your history with these topics, my assumption wasn't completely unreasonable.

 

[ALC]

Kids aren't dogs though, you're not teaching them anything by hitting them when they've done something wrong, that's not how their brain works. They'll just find a way to not get caught or avoid the hitting. Getting hit for not doing your homework is one of the dumbest things I've heard of.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Unfortunately I have never once been hit or slapped by any of my public school teachers. It would be a pretty easy way to get rich though.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Kids aren't dogs though, you're not teaching them anything by hitting them when they've done something wrong, that's not how their brain works. They'll just find a way to not get caught or avoid the hitting. Getting hit for not doing your homework is one of the dumbest things I've heard of.

Agree. Physical discipline does nothing positive for children.

But I don't get what you mean with that part about dogs. If I saw you hit a dog I'd slap you silly, motherfucker.

 

[Enron]

I've just seen disgusting video from Bahrain on Anderson Cooper.

 

[rounder]

You might wanna interchange Anderson Cooper and Bahrain.

 

[X Æ A-12]

No...

 

[Enron]

You might wanna interchange Anderson Cooper and Bahrain.

The video was from Bahrain and it played on the show Anderson Cooper. It wasn't a piece "on" a subject, it was video of an event which appeared on a show.

 

[rounder]

My bad.