"I support Muslims who love freedom" (2 Viewers)

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I'm just not going to watch something I don't agree with. I wouldn't go to the Republican National Convention, I'm not going to watch some shit about how Church and State should be combined.

That's why I asked...

 

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[Fred]

Its 15 minutes, watch it, you have a former Iraqi MP whose also a Shiite saying that states should be secular, you have a respected Saudi author and commentator saying that Arab states should be secular too. Then you have a Lebanese cleric and a member of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt making counter arguments against secularism in the Arab world.

 

[JuveJay]

Preparing to open a can of worms here. Not long after PM David Cameron claims state multiculturalism is failing, this documentary is broadcast showing what is happening inside some muslim faith schools.

Dispatches: Lessons In Hate And Violence:

Pt 1: Pt 2: Pt 3: Pt 4: Pt 5:
I'd like to think this is a minority, however when you see it happening in highly regarded faith schools in the most densely populated muslim areas (West Mids, Yorkshire), it doesn't give you much confidence in that. They are infecting the minds of thousands of young British muslims, it doesn't bode well for the future.

And before it becomes an issue of muslim-bashing, see how the presenters and the actual teachers themselves differentiate between 'devout' muslims and 'unworthy' muslims. Or what a balanced person would call 'extreme' and 'normal', respectively. "You should hate walking down that street". Sickening.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

The things people worry about

 

[Martin]

What do you want them to do, it's the word of god

 

[Fake Melo]

Beating children to teach them Quran is totally unacceptable in Islam.

 

[Martin]

Beating children to teach them Quran is totally unacceptable in Islam.

lol

 

[Fake Melo]

lol

??

Would you say raping children is acceptable in Christianity? Even though you are not Christian.

 

[Martin]

??

Would you say raping children is acceptable in Christianity? Even though you are not Christian.

I find it pretty ridiculous that so many "unacceptable" practices are so widespread (including Catholic child molestation). The unacceptability status seems to have almost no effect, so I find it little comforting to see people reaffirm that it is, in fact, unacceptable.

Notice that the people in these videos are not in some village in Somalia or something, they are living in a so called modern society. In schools that have received the approval of the local authorities. And when these things keep going on even in such circumstances, well there's little hope that anything will change.

 

[Fake Melo]

I find it pretty ridiculous that so many "unacceptable" practices are so widespread (including Catholic child molestation). The unacceptability status seems to have almost no effect, so I find it little comforting to see people reaffirm that it is, in fact, unacceptable.

You find me anywhere in any Islamic book (Quran and hadith) where it states you can beat children in order to make them read the Quran. How much do you know of beating children in Islam after seeing one documentery? What are they showing, what happens in one Masjid in England?


http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AtheismKills.htm

Should I call you a murderer now, Martin?

 

[JuveJay]

The things people worry about

It's a pretty serious matter, long term. There is already an 'us versus them' mentality in this country. Hate breeds hate, I wonder what spin the EDL will put on this now, hmmm...

 

[Fake Melo]

It's a pretty serious matter, long term. There is already an 'us versus them' mentality in this country. Hate breeds hate, I wonder what spin the EDL will put on this now, hmmm...

EDL is a bunch of unemployed fucktards with nothing better to do.

 

[Martin]

You find me anywhere in any Islamic book (Quran and hadith) where it states you can beat children in order to make them read the Quran.

Which is completely irrelevant, that's my point. Whether it's written there or it's not, people have convinced themselves that they are doing god's work, get it? Even Catholic priests are not that deluded, they know very well that they are committing crimes.

How much do you know of beating children in Islam after seeing one documentery? What are they showing, what happens in one Masjid in England?

Right, and I bet that no child molestation ever happens in the Catholic church outside of the videos you can find on youtube either. This is clearly a complete exception, a one time event, it has nothing to do with the rest of this community. Yeah, the Catholic church tried to sell that one for decades, noone was buying it.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AtheismKills.htm

Should I call you a murderer now, Martin?

If that makes you happy, I don't see why not.

 

[JuveJay]

This sort of thing used to happen in Catholic schools inside the last 100 years.

 

[JuveJay]

EDL is a bunch of unemployed fucktards with nothing better to do.

Yes. And these people are soon-to-be unemployed fucktards. Maybe we should thrown them in a pit together and make the world a better place?

 

[Fake Melo]

Which is completely irrelevant, that's my point. Whether it's written there or it's not, people have convinced themselves that they are doing god's work, get it? Even Catholic priests are not that deluded, they know very well that they are committing crimes.

I think its more to do with culture, than religion. Define people, Martin. How many Christians do you know who that molest people, and how many Muslims do you know who beats children?

 

[Martin]

This sort of thing used to happen in Catholic schools inside the last 100 years.

Which leads me to the obvious conclusion that religious schools are a f horrible idea.

 

[JuveJay]

It's not a question of Islam or Christianity, the documentary is hosted by a Muslim and there are many normal Muslims in the show, it is not a matter of religion v religion. It's a matter of extremism. Kids having discipline beaten into them, being told to hate the society they live in, at their most impressionable age.

 

[Martin]

I think its more to do with culture, than religion. Define people, Martin. How many Christians do you know who that molest people, and how many Muslims do you know who beats children?

I know of one Christian who molested kids (although it wasn't publicly known at the time when he was the bishop in Trondheim). And I don't know any Muslims who beat children.

I don't know what the usefulness of this survey is, people rarely confess voluntarily. So where are we headed with this?

 

[Martin]

It's not a question of Islam or Christianity, the documentary is hosted by a Muslim and there are many normal Muslims in the show, it is not a matter of religion v religion. It's a matter of extremism. Kids having discipline beaten into them, being told to hate the society they live in, at their most impressionable age.

Yes, but these "normal" muslims surely know about this culture (Melo doesn't like the word religion), and they know that it's justified in terms of religion. Yet it exists, and that's precisely the problem. So called moderates don't go up to the extreme ones and say "you're an ignorant hate monger", they respect them "for having the faith that I do not have".

As long as moderates possess an inferiority complex that causes them to admire "true believers", we have a serious problem.