Gym and fitness (37 Viewers)

[Nenz]

Well I'm glad your routine is working for you, but you could do even better based on what you've been saying..

I've done bodybuilding strictly for 3 years, not for competition or anything.. I simply wanted to look good in a T-shirt but many of my friends from the gym did compete.. I stopped about a year ago because I was sick of the extremes that you have to take in undertaking bodybuilding like counting every calorie, gram of protein, carb and fat and so on and so on..

thanks very much. I've tried it. I've based my theory/routine on years of experimentation but i learned and did exactly what you said should be done for two years. I found that taking concentrated doses of protein for the next two days after working out would turn to waste every time. When i told people at my gym what i was doing they told me i was stupid too but i got some of them to try it and they've also noticed quicker growth and a noticable decrease in body fat
Yeah i started for the same reason you did. I'll begin competing when i think my body is ready. I could compete but i wouldn't do as well as i'd like.
Indeed body building can get serious, and the compulsive attitude takes the fun out of it. I do it mainly for the benefits.

what so you think the next day your muscles are completely healed? it takes at least 2-3 days for muscles to heal and in that time your body needs protein at a seatdy rate, protien being the BUILDING BLOCKS for muscle, i'll give an example, if you start building a house that will take 3 days to build, you tell the workers to work on the house, use cement and bricks, and give them enough cement and bricks for the night, but in the morning you tell them sorry no more, how are they supposed to build the house? If what you do works for you that's great, but you're not maximising your results, the general bodybuilding consensus is, you need a high protein diet if you want to build muscle, there are no two ways about it

Give that building team all the bricks they need for 3 days of building at the one time. They will use those bricks to build three days straight. As long as you take enough and the body is still healing, the protein won't turn into waste. Why take even more in the morning when you don't need it? Its efficiency in what you're eating. I agree a regular intake of protein every day even in a non-body building diet is essential but concentrated doses in the morning will turn to waste. I don't care if the P.E book told you that you need to recover three days in a row and therefore take high doses of protein. Your body will just waste it.

 

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[Gazzo]

thanks very much. I've tried it. I've based my theory/routine on years of experimentation but i learned and did exactly what you said should be done for two years. I found that taking concentrated doses of protein for the next two days after working out would turn to waste every time. When i told people at my gym what i was doing they told me i was stupid too but i got some of them to try it and they've also noticed quicker growth and a noticable decrease in body fat
Yeah i started for the same reason you did. I'll begin competing when i think my body is ready. I could compete but i wouldn't do as well as i'd like.
Indeed body building can get serious, and the compulsive attitude takes the fun out of it. I do it mainly for the benefits.


Give that building team all the bricks they need for 3 days of building at the one time. They will use those bricks to build three days straight. As long as you take enough and the body is still healing, the protein won't turn into waste. Why take even more in the morning when you don't need it? Its efficiency in what you're eating. I agree a regular intake of protein every day even in a non-body building diet is essential but concentrated doses in the morning will turn to waste. I don't care if the P.E book told you that you need to recover three days in a row and therefore take high doses of protein. Your body will just waste it.

Well the best advice I ever got was "do things that work for you" and I think it's true to some degree and it's the first thing that the huge guy in the gym will tell you.. Everyone's body is different and I've met body builders with some strange routines and customs, from a guy who jerks over 5 times a day to "boost" hormone level (I can't find any literature to back this up, but he swears by it) to a guy with a dietry regime similiar to that of yours and many more stupid things mainly evolving around weird diets and they all swear by it..

 

[Nenz]

lol all body builders are nuts i guess ..though i do have experimentation, some theory, and very very raw data to back my idea up.

I will certainly try the 5 times a day thing... if there is still anything left down there by then
When i was a rower, we were told to not jerk off before a race cause our testosterone levels would lower.

 

[Gazzo]

lol all body builders are nuts i guess ..though i do have experimentation, some theory, and very very raw data to back my idea up.

I will certainly try the 5 times a day thing... if there is still anything left down there by then
When i was a rower, we were told to not jerk off before a race cause our testosterone levels would lower.

That's what I first told him lol.. Aggh the old high school rowing team, fuck that.. in all my times of weight training, watermelon picking and sand bagging i've never encountered something that wrecks your arms as much as rowing

 

[Il Re]

thanks very much. I've tried it. I've based my theory/routine on years of experimentation but i learned and did exactly what you said should be done for two years. I found that taking concentrated doses of protein for the next two days after working out would turn to waste every time. When i told people at my gym what i was doing they told me i was stupid too but i got some of them to try it and they've also noticed quicker growth and a noticable decrease in body fat
Yeah i started for the same reason you did. I'll begin competing when i think my body is ready. I could compete but i wouldn't do as well as i'd like.
Indeed body building can get serious, and the compulsive attitude takes the fun out of it. I do it mainly for the benefits.


Give that building team all the bricks they need for 3 days of building at the one time. They will use those bricks to build three days straight. As long as you take enough and the body is still healing, the protein won't turn into waste. Why take even more in the morning when you don't need it? Its efficiency in what you're eating. I agree a regular intake of protein every day even in a non-body building diet is essential but concentrated doses in the morning will turn to waste. I don't care if the P.E book told you that you need to recover three days in a row and therefore take high doses of protein. Your body will just waste it.

P.E. book? I'm a personal trainer, i've spoken to and know professional bodybuilders, pro boxers, professional rugby players, worked as a trainee to London Wasps rugby club, believe what you want to believe, believe that the moon is a great big cookie if you want to, at the end of the day, if you get results from doing what you do, then that's all that matters

 

[Nenz]

word. agree to disagree (not that i disagree with all of your points)..

but i implore you to think over and maybe even try :eyebrows: my theory (one day)

 

[Nenz]

That's what I first told him lol.. Aggh the old high school rowing team, fuck that.. in all my times of weight training, watermelon picking and sand bagging i've never encountered something that wrecks your arms as much as rowing

it kills me but i keep coming back every season

 

[Gazzo]

P.E. book? I'm a personal trainer, i've spoken to and know professional bodybuilders, pro boxers, professional rugby players, worked as a trainee to London Wasps rugby club, believe what you want to believe, believe that the moon is a great big cookie if you want to, at the end of the day, if you get results from doing what you do, then that's all that matters

We could have some very long discussions then.. My best mate is a personal trainer and I've been involved with that kind of knowledge when I worked part time in a supplment store through Uni.. Just one simple question, do you think it's possible to gain muscle (not maintain) and lose body fat simutaneously? Ofcourse the answer is very long and difficult but being the proffessional that you are I'd like to know your opinion (I'm not being a smartass).. IMO when ever I've personally tried to focus on both at the same time Ive always come up short in one of the two areas (usually building muscle) but sometimes the other way around.. My reasoning is that it is simply impossible to build quality muscle whilst losing fat no matter what any literature says for the simple fact that your body has to be in a negative state of calories to burn fat and thus in building muscle your body must be in a positive state of calories and that theres no two ways about this.. He thinks it's possible but I disagree, IMO from all I've read and expirementated you can only maintain muscle not significantly build it.. Thus the cutting period is needed which doesn't take too long thankfully and it's neccessary to 95% of the people I know

 

[Gazzo]

word. agree to disagree (not that i disagree with all of your points)..

but i implore you to think over and maybe even try :eyebrows: my theory (one day)

Lol when I first started I followed more ridicoluous routines.. Taking tri-creatine malate was probably the most ineffectual thing ever..

 

[Nenz]

i can't say i've tried anything too crazy.. the weirdest things i would have done were baths of milk with lavender (SPECIFICALLY at 3pm), the slaughtering of a goat at sunset, never missing an episode of letterman

none of these things were effective ... can't blame a man for trying

 

[Gazzo]

i can't say i've tried anything too crazy.. the weirdest things i would have done were baths of milk with lavender (SPECIFICALLY at 3pm), the slaughtering of a goat at sunset, never missing an episode of letterman

none of these things were effective ... can't blame a man for trying

 

[Il Re]

word. agree to disagree (not that i disagree with all of your points)..

but i implore you to think over and maybe even try :eyebrows: my theory (one day)

it's not that i disagree, i have tried many different ways, but i have found that to be the best for me, the thing people forget is that every person is different, i know people who can only gain mass on their chest by doing bench press in contrast to other people who don't get much pec stimulation doing bench press but do on things such as flys, it also depends on a persons weight, the heavier the person and the more muslce mass then the more protein is needed, like i said before, if your way works for you, that's what matters, but it's not something i would recommend to my clients if they wanted to gain large amounts of muscle, generally you need a large amount of protein, HOWEVER, in some cases, you do find people with exceptional genes, so i guess you can probably count yourself lucky you've got good genes when it comes to gaining muscle, for the average person gaining muscle is not always easy

 

[Gazzo]

Il Re, answer my question

 

[Il Re]

We could have some very long discussions then.. My best mate is a personal trainer and I've been involved with that kind of knowledge when I worked part time in a supplment store through Uni.. Just one simple question, do you think it's possible to gain muscle (not maintain) and lose body fat simutaneously? Ofcourse the answer is very long and difficult but being the proffessional that you are I'd like to know your opinion (I'm not being a smartass).. IMO when ever I've personally tried to focus on both at the same time Ive always come up short in one of the two areas (usually building muscle) but sometimes the other way around.. My reasoning is that it is simply impossible to build quality muscle whilst losing fat no matter what any literature says for the simple fact that your body has to be in a negative state of calories to burn fat and thus in building muscle your body must be in a positive state of calories and that theres no two ways about this.. He thinks it's possible but I disagree, IMO from all I've read and expirementated you can only maintain muscle not significantly build it.. Thus the cutting period is needed which doesn't take too long thankfully and it's neccessary to 95% of the people I know

This is the million pound question, If you ever find a 100% concrete answer to that please let me know!! It's the most asked question i get. The thing to consider again, is that people are different and what works for someone may not always work for another person. For some people creatine works wonders, for others it's about as useful as eating mud. There has been so much written on this topic and there are so many contrasting ideas, some people say you can, others swear you cant, i remember not long ago two of my colleagues arguing about it,

I have found personally that generally, it's not possible to gain much muscle whilst losing fat, the main thing to consider is efficiency,

If we take a 4 month period, a persons goal is, lose fat and build muscle, it's much more efficient to follow a mass building programme for a 2-3 months and then follow up with a period of cutting in which you maintain the muscle you have built as opposed to a 4 month period of trying to do both.

It is possible to build muscle while keeping body fat low, maintaining muscle is not hard, but u already stated that of course!

So basically, i would agree completely with what you've said, to build QUALITY muscle, and a decent amount at that, whilst losing fat, it's pretty damn hard simply for the fact that they CONTRADICT each other. To Build muscle you need more calories i.e. over you normal calorie intake, to lose fat you need to be under your normal colorie intake, i.e. burn more calories

Many boxers are able to build quality muscle due to thier rigourous training schedules, as well as footballers, and rugby players, so building muscle whilst staying lean is very possible, just losing fat AND gaining a decent amount of muscle is tough

You also have to consider the level and fintess of the person, for beginers, in the first few months of their training they may lose fat and gain some muscle before especially if they have never done weights before and get some decent nutrition, but for people who have been doing it for years, it's very inadvisable, not impossible, but inadvisable, it's not the efficient way to do it

It is possible to increase strength whilst losing fat, and i've read papers stating that an increase in strength in theory leads to an increase in muscle, even though it may be small, an increase none the less

As well as this, when doing the mass part, i find people think, oh well, im building, so i can eat crap and i don't have to do any cardio whatsoever, which isn't the case as the heart weakens which makes bloodflow around the body inefficient, bloodflow is very important as well as the condition of the heart, and it also means while the person may put on msucle, they'll put on a lot of fat as well (only making the fat loss cutting stage harder for themselves)

bottom line, you're right

 

[Gazzo]

Thanks Re i was thinking along the same lines and TBH I havent written anything based on internet literature but rather experimentating myself and actually finding out for real.. +REP

 

[Il Re]

Thanks Re i was thinking along the same lines and TBH I havent written anything based on internet literature but rather experimentating myself and actually finding out for real.. +REP

No problem, that's the best way really, people will tell you you need this or that (supplements) when half of them do nothing anyway, the best personal trainer and most respected guy in my area will tell people not to do freeweights but machines, to him that's right, but i don't believe in just using machines personally, and then you get the 16 year old kids who think that they can just drink a protein shake and do a half assd gym session and within a month theyre going to look like arnold theres so much bullshit because theres money in it, people will try to sell you something you don't need

 

[Gazzo]

No problem, that's the best way really, people will tell you you need this or that (supplements) when half of them do nothing anyway, the best personal trainer and most respected guy in my area will tell people not to do freeweights but machines, to him that's right, but i don't believe in just using machines personally, and then you get the 16 year old kids who think that they can just drink a protein shake and do a half assd gym session and within a month theyre going to look like arnold theres so much bullshit because theres money in it, people will try to sell you something you don't need

And as my old part time job in a supplment store that's exactly what I done lol TBH my boss told me to sell the little 16 year olds the products that we made the commission off and I felt a bit bad in doing so but I always tried to give them good advice

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

i can't believe you guys are arguing about this

anyone a M.D. in here

 

[Gazzo]

I very much doubt so

 

[Bozi]

i can't believe you guys are arguing about this

anyone a M.D. in here

no but you are our resident BA in here besmir....


as in Bad Ass