Gym and fitness (2 Viewers)


Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,451
Are there any real benefit to box squats over conventional back squats? I can't imagine the compression force from having 2 or 3 plates on a bar resting on your back as you sit down to be very good long-term.
I think powerlifters might say it makes the squat more hip dominant. Personally I don't see much benefit for the average person and I think they look and feel weird.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6003 met Tapatalk
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
58,700

I always assumed this was the unofficial "Ask Zach" thread :p. You never go low with substantial weight then?


How much do you squat then? :shifty:

- - - Updated - - -


Do them, they are a wonderful blessing.
The moment you sacrificing form is the moment you should drop down the weight, you are better off doing more reps at a lower weight with good form, what you don't know is the people doing the heavy lifting have fucked a few things along the way.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
14,610
The moment you sacrificing form is the moment you should drop down the weight, you are better off doing more reps at a lower weight with good form, what you don't know is the people doing the heavy lifting have fucked a few things along the way.
What do you mean?

The most I've ever done was I believe three plates for 3 sets of 5 reps.

- - - Updated - - -

I do it but I hate them :andy2:.
This week I will sign up for a gym that is closer to my house and I'll walk. And I need a weight routine that leaves me dead.
What's your routine like?
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
14,610
see tip #1(0:34). this is from brett gibbs "He currently holds the IPF Record squat in the 83 KG junior class."

I always go deep. Random people in the gym have actually come up to me to comment on that, or I overhear them saying it to someone else. I'm a bit undecided on how I feel about bunch of guys watching how low my ass goes to be honest :p.

This guy bounced at the bottom a few times though, that's no good.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
58,700
Lol this is what i mean, how many slipped discs and muscle tears do you think this guy has, also are you as genetically gifted as he is, like i said don't ask unfit slobs anything about fitness. You wanna fuck up your knees and possibly your back be my guest, go heavy and low.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,451
Lol this is what i mean, how many slipped discs and muscle tears do you think this guy has, also are you as genetically gifted as he is, like i said don't ask unfit slobs anything about fitness. You wanna fuck up your knees and possibly your back be my guest, go heavy and low.
Personally I've always believed that there is a breaking point for every exercise. Deadlifts and squats are great for building strength and strength is very important as you grow older. But tendons and bones can only take so much.

In fact that's probably why you don't see many elite track athletes or football players lift enormous weights. The risk reward ratio would be completely off.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6003 met Tapatalk
 

JCK

Biased
Contributor
May 11, 2004
108,725
Personally I've always believed that there is a breaking point for every exercise. Deadlifts and squats are great for building strength and strength is very important as you grow older. But tendons and bones can only take so much.

In fact that's probably why you don't see many elite track athletes or football players lift enormous weights. The risk reward ratio would be completely off.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6003 met Tapatalk
I halved the weights I used to use on dead lift and squat and I am going for more reps nowadays. It is mostly because I don't feel the need for heavy weights anymore now that I am running more and riding way much more than. It feels good this way and I do weights only once a week. Another day I focus solely on core, the rest are running and riding.
 

Zacheryah

Society's Reckoning
Aug 29, 2010
41,455
Bones will actually become more dense when they are subjected to large weight loading over a long period of time, making them become able to carry several times more weight. When you slice a vertebra horizontally, you see a mesh wire. these wires get small fractures, and when they heal (long proces) they become thicker.

Tendons can become ridiculously strong, but its also something that takes time and significant weight loading. Stronger athletes never injure their tendons if trained right. Athletes in prime strenght sports are consistantly carrying some kind of tendinitis if they push themselves tho (hello).

Squats should be done on depth because the joint is the strongest when you are ass to grass. Using wraps give a simular effect. Hence why plenty of powerlifters use wraps even if they only ever compete raw : more pressure on the joint and tendon = better.

I only squat 280kg, but the only knee issue i ever had was getting of a chair with my leg in a bad angle. Its about angles and form, not depth. Also, use elevated heels

Deadlifts are an amazing excercise. But you need to keep form and technique as priority. If you arent in a strenghtcompetition, grinding is for idiots.



Squatting and deadlifting heavy with knee's in the proper movement angles and the exercise done in the correct form is totally fine. In fact its largely beneficial.


Dont grind, you arent a advanced strongman or powerlifter. Our core and thoracolumbar fascia is developped to be stronger then failure.


There is 0 reason for track athletes to do squats as its a pull. They do squats instead as its a push. They will do several reps because they need explosiveness and otherwise they'll get too strong but slow.





Also Note : competing on a fading viral infection with sinusitis is bad kay

- - - Updated - - -

For example : dont do this stuff unless your back is stronger you can pull

 
Last edited:

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
25,246
:tup:

I know some 100m sprinters and High jumpers used/use a set of of 60-80% 1rm squats about 10-15 minutes before competing for the Post-activation-potentiation effect. Although there are still debates on how effective this actually is, as studies have shown variable results, though most are at least positive to a minor degree when the rest period between is short.

@Zacheryah

Quite a few sprinters have used bench/box squats to half depth or just about thighs parallel instead of ass to grass. Charlie Francis had Ben Johnson doing box squat sets of 6 reps at 560lbs during his strength phases. I've seen videos of Asafa Powell and a couple other sprinters doing them in strength training phases as well. Any reason sprinters would do these specifically?

With regards to injuries, there was a study in the 80s on powerlifters and Olympic lifters squatting deep and whether it caused increased joint/tendon/ligament issues in the hips and knees. I seem to recall it showed minor issues increasing, but nothing much so far as long term degenerative damage in the joints.

- - - Updated - - -

There was also this review released from Cal State centre for sport performance:


https://shruggedcollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DeepSquat-Review-Barbell-Daily-3-27-15.pdf

Suggests that deep squats are not problematic for healthy individuals free of neuromuscular injury.
 
Last edited:

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
5,593
Bones will actually become more dense when they are subjected to large weight loading over a long period of time, making them become able to carry several times more weight. When you slice a vertebra horizontally, you see a mesh wire. these wires get small fractures, and when they heal (long proces) they become thicker.

Tendons can become ridiculously strong, but its also something that takes time and significant weight loading. Stronger athletes never injure their tendons if trained right. Athletes in prime strenght sports are consistantly carrying some kind of tendinitis if they push themselves tho (hello).

Squats should be done on depth because the joint is the strongest when you are ass to grass. Using wraps give a simular effect. Hence why plenty of powerlifters use wraps even if they only ever compete raw : more pressure on the joint and tendon = better.

I only squat 280kg, but the only knee issue i ever had was getting of a chair with my leg in a bad angle. Its about angles and form, not depth. Also, use elevated heels

Deadlifts are an amazing excercise. But you need to keep form and technique as priority. If you arent in a strenghtcompetition, grinding is for idiots.



Squatting and deadlifting heavy with knee's in the proper movement angles and the exercise done in the correct form is totally fine. In fact its largely beneficial.


Dont grind, you arent a advanced strongman or powerlifter. Our core and thoracolumbar fascia is developped to be stronger then failure.


There is 0 reason for track athletes to do squats as its a pull. They do squats instead as its a push. They will do several reps because they need explosiveness and otherwise they'll get too strong but slow.





Also Note : competing on a fading viral infection with sinusitis is bad kay

- - - Updated - - -

For example : dont do this stuff unless your back is stronger you can pull

I’m only getting into squatting with barbells in the past couple of months. Would you recommend getting a pair of lifting shoes? Do they make a significant difference in performance over the long term? My left foot is pretty flat, and I have difficulty with balance and power on the concentric part of the lift.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
58,700
Bones will actually become more dense when they are subjected to large weight loading over a long period of time, making them become able to carry several times more weight. When you slice a vertebra horizontally, you see a mesh wire. these wires get small fractures, and when they heal (long proces) they become thicker.

Tendons can become ridiculously strong, but its also something that takes time and significant weight loading. Stronger athletes never injure their tendons if trained right. Athletes in prime strenght sports are consistantly carrying some kind of tendinitis if they push themselves tho (hello).

Squats should be done on depth because the joint is the strongest when you are ass to grass. Using wraps give a simular effect. Hence why plenty of powerlifters use wraps even if they only ever compete raw : more pressure on the joint and tendon = better.

I only squat 280kg, but the only knee issue i ever had was getting of a chair with my leg in a bad angle. Its about angles and form, not depth. Also, use elevated heels

Deadlifts are an amazing excercise. But you need to keep form and technique as priority. If you arent in a strenghtcompetition, grinding is for idiots.



Squatting and deadlifting heavy with knee's in the proper movement angles and the exercise done in the correct form is totally fine. In fact its largely beneficial.


Dont grind, you arent a advanced strongman or powerlifter. Our core and thoracolumbar fascia is developped to be stronger then failure.


There is 0 reason for track athletes to do squats as its a pull. They do squats instead as its a push. They will do several reps because they need explosiveness and otherwise they'll get too strong but slow.





Also Note : competing on a fading viral infection with sinusitis is bad kay

- - - Updated - - -

For example : dont do this stuff unless your back is stronger you can pull

You are a competitive powerlifter, you have seriously injured your body plenty of times and will most likely feel arthritic effect down the road, but that's a choice you made. Just look at olivera or coker dude can bearly stand. Not even gonna talk about coleman.
Casual gym goers are not competing and are there more for esthetic and ego reasons.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
25,246
You are a competitive powerlifter, you have seriously injured your body plenty of times and will most likely feel arthritic effect down the road, but that's a choice you made. Just look at olivera or coker dude can bearly stand. Not even gonna talk about coleman.
Casual gym goers are not competing and are there more for esthetic and ego reasons.
I think there's definitely something to be said for this. That great difference between casual gym-goer and an elite athlete.

Severe Knee and hip injuries are quite rare in Olympic weightlifters because they have spent years and years practicing the lifts and honing technique. Developing proper mobility, flexibility, and strength in those positions.

A casual gym goer, bodybuilder, crossfitter, etc has not and most often does not have the proper technique or mobility to be high bar squatting ass to grass or catching Olympic lifts in that position without running high risk of causing injury or longer-term issues in joints related to improper form and poor mobility.
 
Last edited:

Zacheryah

Society's Reckoning
Aug 29, 2010
41,455
:tup:

I know some 100m sprinters and High jumpers used/use a set of of 60-80% 1rm squats about 10-15 minutes before competing for the Post-activation-potentiation effect. Although there are still debates on how effective this actually is, as studies have shown variable results, though most are at least positive to a minor degree when the rest period between is short.

@Zacheryah

Quite a few sprinters have used bench/box squats to half depth or just about thighs parallel instead of ass to grass. Charlie Francis had Ben Johnson doing box squat sets of 6 reps at 560lbs during his strength phases. I've seen videos of Asafa Powell and a couple other sprinters doing them in strength training phases as well. Any reason sprinters would do these specifically?

With regards to injuries, there was a study in the 80s on powerlifters and Olympic lifters squatting deep and whether it caused increased joint/tendon/ligament issues in the hips and knees. I seem to recall it showed minor issues increasing, but nothing much so far as long term degenerative damage in the joints.

- - - Updated - - -

There was also this review released from Cal State centre for sport performance:


https://shruggedcollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/DeepSquat-Review-Barbell-Daily-3-27-15.pdf

Suggests that deep squats are not problematic for healthy individuals free of neuromuscular injury.
Box squats are build to strenghten the hips and specific parts around the knee and sitting back. And its mostly used to train explosiveness in getting up again.

So it makes sense to do those. The box isnt there to shorten the ROM of the squat, but its about "sitting back" and getting off the box in an explosive way while keeping an uprignt body and forcing the knee's out

Anyone that asks for my advice that i see has "collapsing knee's" i'll advice to do box squats.

- - - Updated - - -

I’m only getting into squatting with barbells in the past couple of months. Would you recommend getting a pair of lifting shoes? Do they make a significant difference in performance over the long term? My left foot is pretty flat, and I have difficulty with balance and power on the concentric part of the lift.
Pushing though your heal creates a better and safer angle and puts less stress on the achilliestendon and kneecap.

Beeing a recreational lifter, just get 30-35 dollar shoes. No need for the filthy expensive top of the line adipowers or nike equivalent

- - - Updated - - -

You are a competitive powerlifter, you have seriously injured your body plenty of times and will most likely feel arthritic effect down the road, but that's a choice you made. Just look at olivera or coker dude can bearly stand. Not even gonna talk about coleman.
Casual gym goers are not competing and are there more for esthetic and ego reasons.
Only serious injury i ever had that partially kept me out of training was a herniated disc, caused by a bike accident. Aside from that only strains.

However one needs to make the destinction between "compound excercise" and "competitive lifting"

Beeing competitive in any serious sport will always lead to taxation on the body as you want to push it. But the questions raised are about compounds
 
Last edited:

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,451
Only serious injury i ever had that partially kept me out of training was a herniated disc, caused by a bike accident. Aside from that only strains.

However one needs to make the destinction between "compound excercise" and "competitive lifting"

Beeing competitive in any serious sport will always lead to taxation on the body as you want to push it. But the questions raised are about compounds

Form becomes crucial with heavy lifting. At lower weights you can simply get away with much more. Your hobby is powerlifting. Obviously you are going to lift heavy ass weights. But most people lift purely because of aesthetics and health reasons. There's no reason for a 150 kg squat if you're just an average joe who wants to look good naked.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
39,924
Form becomes crucial with heavy lifting. At lower weights you can simply get away with much more. Your hobby is powerlifting. Obviously you are going to lift heavy ass weights. But most people lift purely because of aesthetics and health reasons. There's no reason for a 150 kg squat if you're just an average joe who wants to look good naked.
150kg squat is not a heavy squat. If you want strength and to be in decent shape, that’s a good number to shoot for. It’s like saying no one needs to run more than a mile just because we have cars.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)